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Mai Shiranui
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:21:00 -
[1]
I've been told by many that MMO development is not a democracy. I think this is one of the silliest things ever said. To appeal to players, you have to give at least mosto fhtem what they want to keep them comming back to your game month after month.
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BloodSpoon
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:23:00 -
[2]
i think EVE is sort of a democracy the people have a say in what they want in the game or what they want changed but in the end its up to the Dev's what gets put in
"ooooohh theres nothing wrong with killer robots from venus" |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:23:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Mai Shiranui
I've been told by many that MMO development is not a democracy. I think this is one of the silliest things ever said. To appeal to players, you have to give at least mosto fhtem what they want to keep them comming back to your game month after month.
MMO development is an oligarchy. The devs decide what will happen.
Of course, if they want, they can choose to listen to the players sometimes.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:24:00 -
[4]
CCP have, in the past, taken on board player suggestions and integrated them into the game.
But that doesn't entail a democracy. Thate the meaning litterally and understand that if every player asks for it, doesn't mean CCP will give it since it is their game and they may already have something betetr int he winds that players have not thought of and would be the oposite of what players are asking for.
Even though, it doesn't mean that the door is shut to suggestions. No it is not a democracy, but it is also not a closed session either.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal
Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it. |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: BloodSpoon
i think EVE is sort of a democracy the people have a say in what they want in the game or what they want changed but in the end its up to the Dev's what gets put in
so it's not like a democracy at all then
Originally by: Chowdown
We camp a lot
Originally by: Skape Gote
Did you know that an anagram of Curse Alliance is "anal circus eel". Just FYI.
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: HUGO DRAX on 11/12/2005 18:28:56
IF ccp listened to all player requests. we would have 1 pvp server with a seperate char development capped at level 20, then the primary server with no pvp only group quests to get battleships etc.. nothing above frigates would be on the market everything requires quests to get them and the only thing that will be crafted are weapons which require quest items etc..
oh and everyhting would be level based chars and you need to do lots of quests to move up.
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Cygnet Lythanea
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:42:00 -
[7]
Yes, you have a point, but a lot of very good ideas are ignored too.
Non Nobis, Domine, Non Nobis, Sed Nomine Tuo Da Na Glorium |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:47:00 -
[8]
There is no such thing as democracy in EvE, if there is, God help EvE. IMHO, it is more like a symbiotic relationship with what can actually be implemented by Devs and listening to worthwhile inputs that may be implemented in the forseeable future. One of the biggest enemies of Devs, I think, are actually users themselves. They can never be satisfied no matter what, but they can be satisfied with giving something new to users to play with.
It is more like, OK, this is how EvE is going to be with inputs from users on what can be tweaked/enhanced to get the vision to be realised.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 11/12/2005 18:53:52
What most of the players want is not necessarily the best for the game.
E.g. players often want quick success, but if they get it, they become bored faster and leave the game.
Or there is the group of players, who are new to the game and have already 1000 ideas to change this and that and then they leave. Questionable, if they would have stayed, if the devs had done what they wanted, because probably it was just not the right game for them.
Imho devs should have a vision and follow it. Ideas and feedback should be welcome, but the devs should finally decide, what they want and not want.
I'm quite sure, players can ruin a game and after that's done, they play something else. 
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Hexxx
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:54:00 -
[10]
Thank god it's not a democracy.
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Jason Kildaro
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Posted - 2005.12.11 18:54:00 -
[11]
Think about it. If the Devs listened to whatever players wanted you would have to customize the game for every player. In general, most people speak for themselves, not for the good of the community.
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Mai Shiranui
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Posted - 2005.12.11 19:07:00 -
[12]
Yeah, but ther are soem things that would be easy to do, and make a lot of people happy, and they don't. Like custom paint jobs on ships. I know there are ways around hte bandwidth issue, so come on! It's not exactly unbalencing! Or any of the many cosmetic changes that people have suggested, such as having your corp logo on your hull.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.11 19:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mai Shiranui
Yeah, but ther are soem things that would be easy to do, and make a lot of people happy, and they don't. Like custom paint jobs on ships. I know there are ways around hte bandwidth issue, so come on! It's not exactly unbalencing! Or any of the many cosmetic changes that people have suggested, such as having your corp logo on your hull.
I think it can be implemented in the future but for now, I think they better work on optimising graphics and effects. Currently, I am playing without any effect at all because even watching laser blasts (purely in PvP) lag my client bad and is one reason for losing ships/pods.
Think of all the lags/data transfers for a 40 vs 40 fleet ops with everyone having unique ships colours, etc. I think I will go for a text-version of EvE, if there is one^^ 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Cygnet Lythanea
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Posted - 2005.12.11 19:18:00 -
[14]
ROFL Imagine the lag if there is 40vs40 ships, and a carrier and soem other drone launchers are involved... Plus a vamphoon or two... No one would move, and suddenly, it's a feild of pods, as far as the eye can see...
Non Nobis, Domine, Non Nobis, Sed Nomine Tuo Da Na Glorium |
Lord Draylon
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Posted - 2005.12.11 19:18:00 -
[15]
Eve may not be a democracy but the player can be heard through his hard earn dollar/euro.
3 years ago I was not happy with all the exploits in pvp that was going on as well as no decent stoyline/agent system. So I voted against Eve with my dollar and left the game thus withdrawing support.
I now have returned and see a much more stable pvp enviroment and a decent agent system in place. I now make an approving vote with my dollar (15 votes per month to be exact) to continue support of Eve.
Not a democracy but does it have to be?
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Cygnet Lythanea
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Posted - 2005.12.11 19:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lord Draylon
Eve may not be a democracy but the player can be heard through his hard earn dollar/euro.
3 years ago I was not happy with all the exploits in pvp that was going on as well as no decent stoyline/agent system. So I voted against Eve with my dollar and left the game thus withdrawing support.
I now have returned and see a much more stable pvp enviroment and a decent agent system in place. I now make an approving vote with my dollar (15 votes per month to be exact) to continue support of Eve.
Not a democracy but does it have to be?
Same here. I just came back because I heard they were finally doing something new with drones.
Non Nobis, Domine, Non Nobis, Sed Nomine Tuo Da Na Glorium |
Remedial
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Posted - 2005.12.11 21:05:00 -
[17]
Corporations are not democracies because they cannot compel you to do anything. Governments should be democracies because you cannot escape the imposition of force under a government. With a corporation you can simply not partake of its products or services if you dislike what it does.
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Illegal Alien
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Posted - 2005.12.11 21:23:00 -
[18]
MMO Development is a democracy.
And every month, you vote.
See that $14.95 or whatever charge on your credit card? Thats a vote for "yes, I like this game". If at any time you, decide the game is no longer for you, you can vote "no", by canceling the subscription to the game.
This is auctually better than a democracy, because you may only need 20-30% to vote "no" to cause the developers to possibly rethink their position.
If the developers make a horrible change, and lose 30% or more of the player base, thats nothing to sneeze at.
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Gonada
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:02:00 -
[19]
origional OP: please leave eve and never return.
your quote:
"To appeal to players, you have to give at least most of them what they want to keep them comming back to your game month after month."
is the biggest pile of dung this person has seen in, um a day. :)
every month you pay, that is your vote. Ask yourself, why did i CHOOSE to play this particular game?
omg you chose it because you liked it.
not because you said to yourself i can change the game to what i see fit.
eve, and other games should never be a democracy. EVERY online game to date has fallen beside the wayside PRECISELY BECAUSE of poeple like you, and devs who crumble under the pressure and bow to the wishes of a fickle, often undereducated playerbase.
every game to date, think bout it.
Eve has not bowed to this kind of pressure.....
eve is the only online game that has continued to grow...
think about that too.
you dont liek the way the game is played?> fine, go play soemthing else, better yet grow some brains, and develope your own version of the mmorpeg you want to play.
nuff said
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Tony Fats
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:03:00 -
[20]
You give the players what they want, you get WoW.
Then they come back and complain that there's no challenge and there's nothing to do.
Sometimes the thing you want is bad for you, and the thing you hate is what's good for you.
Democracy doesn't work in RL, it doesn't work in-game, and it doesn't work on the boards.
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:13:00 -
[21]
Silly comment about about getting WoW if you give people what they want. I mean WoW is a dozen times more successful than Eve in terms of numbers. Don't knock it fan-boy and don't forget you are in a minority when it comes to MMORPG players. We all are.
btw: it isn't technically democracy when a corporation or company gives the customer what he wants, but it sometimes looks like the same thing. To an extent the producer must fullfill the needs of the customer base in order to survive in the market. Discussing what those needs are in open forums is a very inclusive way of doing so.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:14:00 -
[22]
eve should never be a democracy. there are far too many ********s.
actually, the same could be said of britain...
but its harder to ban people for being terminally annoying/stupid in real life
Where is my I-win button, CCP? |
babyblue
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: HippoKing
eve should never be a democracy. there are far too many ********s.
actually, the same could be said of britain...
but its harder to ban people for being terminally annoying/stupid in real life
I don't think the forums of a video game are the right place for your juvenile and some might say Fasc''ist political opinions. Come back when you've read Russells History Of Western Philosophy and then tell us you consent to be governed, whether you are a ******** or not.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:22:00 -
[24]
heh - it was a joke.
being a whiney lefty rocks 
Where is my I-win button, CCP? |
babyblue
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: HippoKing
heh - it was a joke.
being a whiney lefty rocks
Lol. Nice one  hahaha.
 at self being sooo serious.
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Gwyneth
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Posted - 2005.12.11 23:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: babyblue
Originally by: HippoKing
heh - it was a joke.
being a whiney lefty rocks
Lol. Nice one hahaha.
at self being sooo serious.
DonŠt worry. Our comerads in Moskow were sometimes quick too, and people actually never said anything, ever again when they were too quick
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.12.12 00:09:00 -
[27]
Eve is most like a cross between a theocracy and a meritocracy coupled with a reasonably good public feedback mechanism.
CCP set the guidelines, based on their superior abilities (they are pros by now, we are not), and their ideals and ideas about what Eve should be like.
However, like any good governmental module the 'governing body' legitimises itself through a dialogue with the public it serves and 'governs'. It explains how it works, what it does with the resources put in by the public and what it aims generally are. However, it does not allow direct policy making influence by the public.
More to the point: CCP read the better threads on here quite well I believe, and truly act upon the feedback given in them. However, it's not a direct democracy at all, nor should it be imo.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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Tony Fats
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Posted - 2005.12.13 04:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: babyblue
Silly comment about about getting WoW if you give people what they want. I mean WoW is a dozen times more successful than Eve in terms of numbers. Don't knock it fan-boy and don't forget you are in a minority when it comes to MMORPG players. We all are.
btw: it isn't technically democracy when a corporation or company gives the customer what he wants, but it sometimes looks like the same thing. To an extent the producer must fullfill the needs of the customer base in order to survive in the market. Discussing what those needs are in open forums is a very inclusive way of doing so.
Millions of people listen to Brittney Spears, doesn't make it quality product.
Hey McDonalds serves millions of people a day so they must be the best restaurant in the world right?
Same with wow. Its a schit game with schit community, you can't even get a complete sentence out of anybody, they could sell 10 million copies, it would prove one thing :
that you can become richer than God by giving dumb people what they think they want.
Oh yeah alot of em are bored out of their skulls. But they're still playing. Where else would they go? Eve? Hahahahahahaha.
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Rabbitgod
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Posted - 2005.12.13 05:28:00 -
[29]
I made a post about sevral cool things I would like to see in the game and how they would work and what not a long time ago. Two thing I made point about were target painters, and letting players use drug to enhance their abilties in a fight. Well a few months later we have target painters and drug as combat boosters are in devlopment. I'm not saying that it was my post that put these things into the game but I'm sure many other people post ideas like mine and the dev drew from that. I looked for my post about the target painters and all I could find was this Linkage
Here these will help |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.13 05:35:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Noriath on 13/12/2005 05:37:28
A lot of people think what the community wants is representative of what gamers in general want. That's not true though. The community of a game are people who like the game as it is, but not a representative group for the entire market. Because of this if you exclusively focuss on community input you might be able to fine tune the features that they like, but you're not expanding your playerbase...
The ultimate truth about MMORPGs is that thei're not making money by making people who pay them already happier, but by making people who don't pay them yet happy. At least when thei're still growing. Eventually every program reaches a stable playerbase and becomes a niche product, then the developers should focuss on pleasing the community that they have.
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