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CCP The Maller needs some attention

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Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:17:00 - [1] The Maller - Quite possibly the toughest cruiser in the galaxy, the Maller is a common sight in Amarrian Imperial Navy operations. It is mainly used for military duty, although a few can be found in the private sector acting as escort ships for very important dispatches. Special Ability: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use per level and 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level. The Maller is a great ship whose bonuses do not match up it's typical setup. After talking to a lot of Maller pilots and reading various posts etc., the typical setup is something like: Hi Slots: 5 Med Pulse II, or Medium Modulated's - Small Turret Guns 1 Medium Nos Mid Slots: AB II Stasis Webby or Warp Scrambler Cap Recharger Low Slots: Medium Armor repper II 2 Cap relays Energized adaptive nano II Heatsink II 1600mm nanofiber or some other variant If you fit the plate, you cannot fit medium turrets which the ships bonuses go towards so everyone fits small turrets. So basically what your left with is one un-used and useless bonus. If you fit 800mm plate, you still cannot fit medium turrets. So basically, no plate. But that's not how the ship is used. The Thorax used to be the same way so everyone fit plate and small blasters, but it's grid is being increased to enable it to fit medium guns and take advantage of its medium hybrid turret bonus to make up for its reduction in drone bay size. I think it's therefore appropriate to re-examine the Maller. The Maller needs the appropriate increase in grid and CPU to fit plate and medium turrets, OR change the bonus from a medium energy turret capacitor bonus, to small energy turrets damage bonus per level. This would be very similar to the Thorax's bonus. The bottom line is that the ship has a bonus that is not used and this should be looked at in some way imo and if we're going to go re-adjust other ships to make them more fit into how they're used and their role, why not the Maller? or maybe I missed something and all of this is already being done. Please no flames or unconstructive stuff thanks!
Menelak Faf	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:21:00 - [2] What, do you want 2000 base grid or something? If you want to fit medium guns, then don't fit a plate and reap the benefits. You're CHOOSING to ignore a ships bonus, that does not mean that the bonus is broken. SoonÖ is relative.
My grandfather	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:21:00 - [3] Edited by: My grandfather on 11/12/2005 23:21:52 i very, very second the OP!
Frightspear	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:22:00 - [4] Maller is fine. You either plate it up and do low DOT, or you use medium lasers (cruiser sized) and have less armor. Either way, it works very well for me.
Aakron	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:27:00 - [5] The Maller needs no increases whatsoever, there are plent of ways to fit medium guns and still tank, since when did the maller need 500grid factored in to fit battleship armor?
Random	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:27:00 - [6] Im prety hapy with my anty cruser maller, and it can handle intys/af's to 5 Focused TII pulses 1 mwd 1 20km scram 1 weber 1 800mm plate 1 Small repper TII 1 enegized adaptive nano TII 3 heatsinks TII dose nice dot, is fast and can take sum punishment. But cap will betray u in the end, well that depends on skillz like everything else.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:32:00 - [7] I really hope your kidding. You are, right ? /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:05:00 - [8] Edited by: Megadon on 12/12/2005 00:06:34 All I'm saying is that if the new RMR Thorax can fit plate and medium guns, why not the Maller?
Furion35	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:09:00 - [9] Edited by: Furion35 on 12/12/2005 00:10:29 You choose to fit the small guns when you put on a 1600mm plate. Try a smaller plate and you should be fine.
Roland De'chain	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:13:00 - [10] Please Please, Leave my maller alone. It's fine as it is (better than fine, a sac couldn't tnak mine forever) I'd rather fall with 10 lions, than stand with 1000 sheep
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:29:00 - [11] Well I'm a reasonable man, and if everyone thinks I'm nuts then well.... I must be nuts! Thanksbye.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Megadon Edited by: Megadon on 12/12/2005 00:06:34 All I'm saying is that if the new RMR Thorax can fit plate and medium guns, why not the Maller? Can't the maller fit a 800mm plate and pulses? That'd be on part with what a typical post RMR thorax setup will be - have you tried this on the test server?
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Megadon Edited by: Megadon on 12/12/2005 00:06:34 All I'm saying is that if the new RMR Thorax can fit plate and medium guns, why not the Maller? Can't the maller fit a 800mm plate and pulses? That'd be on part with what a typical post RMR thorax setup will be - have you tried this on the test server? I couldn't quite manage it the way i had things, but i've changed some of my setup and it just fits. Thanks
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Furion35 Edited by: Furion35 on 12/12/2005 00:10:29 You choose to fit the small guns when you put on a 1600mm plate. Try a smaller plate and you should be fine. What he said. 1600mm is a oversized plate. So there is nothing wrong with going down to what most all cruisers can fit 400 to 800mm sized. Besides that, the maller with frig guns is fine. Cruisers are good ships for frig defense. With 1600 plate and small frig guns it can still dish out great damage. The maller itself has no gun damage bonus so it's not like it matters anyways. Not to mention the ship itself can fit 2x1600's for a good non-cap tank. Signature image removed, please resize it to fit the forum guidelines, maximum flesize is 24000 bytes - Imaran
keepiru	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:31:00 - [15] Actually its main problem is that its outdamaged by both the thorax & rupture at both short and long range, while not having enough fitting to fit the 'utility' slot and having 0 versatility because of 0 dronebay. It is, quite frankly, pretty **** in RMR, just like the omen. The only good amarr t1 cruiser in RMR is the arbi. You might 1-on-1 versus a thorax if you know youre fighting one, but thast about as far as it goes. ------------- Where is the gistii a-type armor equivalent?
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:33:00 - [16] Aye, it struggle to do half decent damage. New stacking + drone boost + heavy launcher boost = maller outdamaged even by the moa in most viable setups Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range (updated 12/12/05).
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:37:00 - [17] Well you two are coming from where i was. That is compared to the Thorax et al, it's damage is crappy with small turrets, but hey, some seem to think it's fine.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:40:00 - [18] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 12/12/2005 01:41:35 Well, it's supposed to be a tanking cruiser, so to some extent it's right for it not to be a damage monster. But, eh, a tanking cruiser, that's almost as interesting as a sniping cruiser... I'll probably still use it, but it's way more specialized than the rupture, very good all around cruiser in mk2, and the mk2 thorax despite the cap issues... At least, it's shiny Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range (updated 12/12/05).
keepiru	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:42:00 - [19] And the prophecy is about as interesting a BC as the maller is a cruiser, in RMR, though its not quite as bad. Mostly cause the brutix puts the rest of them to shame, heh. ------------- Where is the gistii a-type armor equivalent?
Crellion	Posted - 2005.12.12 01:57:00 - [20] Edited by: Crellion on 12/12/2005 02:00:32 (the rax will have only medium drones in RMR - 1/4 of current dronebay) Edit: I changed my mind :) No "quiet" post. Here is the truth: After the nerf on the Rax dronebay the maller is left unbalanced as the sole king of cruiser 1v1. If anything it needs a swing of the bat (there is only one bat in eve) especially as post RMR tank will beat gank. What the OP is doing is probably launching a pre-emtive strike against the upcoming "nerf-teh-maller" threads. Your mates are trying to shush you quietly... now you know why :)
keepiru	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 12/12/2005 02:00:32 (the rax will have only medium drones in RMR - 1/4 of current dronebay) Edit: I changed my mind :) No "quiet" post. Here is the truth: After the nerf on the Rax dronebay the maller is left unbalanced as the sole king of cruiser 1v1. If anything it needs a swing of the bat (there is only one bat in eve) especially as post RMR tank will beat gank. What the OP is doing is probably launching a pre-emtive strike against the upcoming "nerf-teh-maller" threads. Your mates are trying to shush you quietly... now you know why :) Nope. The numbers Naughty and Nyxus ran were inclduign the new drone bay, drone damage boost, and heavy missile rof boost on moa and reupture. Please try again. ------------- Where is the gistii a-type armor equivalent?
Biggie Rawls	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Menelak Faf What, do you want 2000 base grid or something? If you want to fit medium guns, then don't fit a plate and reap the benefits. You're CHOOSING to ignore a ships bonus, that does not mean that the bonus is broken. Absolutely. Tank or do damage. That's a choice you make... you can't have it both ways.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:17:00 - [23] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 12/12/2005 02:21:07 I've just finished updating my model with the RMR stats and the new stacking penalty. Turrets Only Missiles Only Drones only (explosive drones, 5 warrior t2 for rupture and 5 valkyrie t2 for thorax Total damage with 2 damage mods Total damage with 2 damage mods, 3 for maller The damage of the maller isn't really hot, even with one more damage mod. It rather have to tank well to offset that. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range (updated 12/12/05).
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:18:00 - [24] Originally by: Biggie Rawls Originally by: Menelak Faf What, do you want 2000 base grid or something? If you want to fit medium guns, then don't fit a plate and reap the benefits. You're CHOOSING to ignore a ships bonus, that does not mean that the bonus is broken. Absolutely. Tank or do damage. That's a choice you make... you can't have it both ways. Ever fought a thorax?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:23:00 - [25] Or an Ishtar? ------------- Where is the gistii a-type armor equivalent?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Naughty Boy The damage of the maller isn't really hot, even with one more damage mod. It rather have to tank well to offset that. Omg, thats pathetic. And anyone who says it tanks well enough to offset that one hasnt flown one recently :S ------------- Where is the gistii a-type armor equivalent?
Blitz Hacker	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:53:00 - [27] Mallers as is without 1600mm plate can tank a BS for longer than any other ship I know of; including the pre-nerf'd thorax. obviously not an offencive cruiser; use that setup with a lower grade plate and you'll be rock'in jus fine. Remember this is a t1 cruiser.. not a hak -Blitz-
Angelic Resolution	Posted - 2005.12.12 03:23:00 - [28] My maller is fine atm: 4 x Focused Afocal Maser I's 1 x Heavy Pulse Laser I 1 x AB 1 x Web 1 x Cap recharge I 2 x Power Diags 3 x 400mm Steel Plates 1 x Medium Armor repairer. 3450 armor hps and solo'ing lvl 3's with no probs.
Mishima	Posted - 2005.12.12 03:45:00 - [29] Yeah, the raven needs a boost too. Apoc has 8 turrets slots, raven should have 8 launchers slots and then it should have 7x meds like apoc has 7lows and then it should have 4 lows like apoc has 4meds. it should have about 50k powergrid to fit 8x siege launchers and t2 and some extra just to be safe. it needs a big cap bonus and bigger dronebay like dominix. lows need a 1600mm plate thing for shields like Xlarge shield extenders in lows PLZ FIXEN! I love x-mas :D
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.12 12:37:00 - [30] Originally by: keepiru Actually its main problem is that its outdamaged by both the thorax & rupture at both short and long range, while not having enough fitting to fit the 'utility' slot and having 0 versatility because of 0 dronebay. It is, quite frankly, pretty **** in RMR, just like the omen. The only good amarr t1 cruiser in RMR is the arbi. You might 1-on-1 versus a thorax if you know youre fighting one, but thast about as far as it goes. Ok a 720 rupture is not going to kill a Maller with 1600 plates on ok? So stop... What about a close range medium autocannon rupture? Same thing, it doesn't have the PG to to fit the tank a Maller can so stop... Ruputure can fit a 1600 but it has to use frig guns and even then the Maller wins due to it's elite tanking. 5x150 Autocannon II's 1xGremlin Neturlizer Sensor Booster II Web WS 2x1600 Tund Plates 3xHardeners 1xSmall Armor Rep II This is one of my setups I use for gate to gate pvp. You know how hard it is to break a tank that has 8000 armor+ with tech II hardners on plus the mallers natural bonuses? Now think of the new stuff in RMR. You can tank with passive hardners now. Now Nos ships really can't kill you tank due to new armor skills ooOoooOOo. 8000 armor with decent passive resistances and no need for cap execpt EW... Think it helps.... Signature image removed, please resize it to fit the forum guidelines, maximum flesize is 24000 bytes - Imaran

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