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why such a big fight against Thieves?

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DarkBluePanther007	Posted - 2005.12.12 21:11:00 - [31] Originally by: EvilDoomer Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly. The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief. Why pass such a stupid law? Most miners who own barges are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by mining in 1.0 security sectors. Ore theft was therefore giving to the poor by taking from the very rich. Plus ore thiefs weren't something that really needed fighting against since most miners adapted to the phenomenon by mining in groups with a friendly hauler conveying the surplus of the containers: Teamwork. When we did manage to rob someone it usually started big discussions on local: community. So what will this part of the patch do? just work in favor of the strong, miners in corps with BSs and pvpers will be able to defend themselves Sometimes law and evolution should work more in favour of the small and poor. Please call that back, or do something else to help thief corps and the small and poor... STUPID LAW!!! you steal and Im just suppose to sit there. **** THAT! If you have the nutz to steal then be perpaired die if a corp and defeat you. You sound like a little thief who is going to get ruined becuase he cannot work for what he has but only wants to steal from people bustin ass to get some isk together. Im one.! hehe, I knew I wouldn't be getting much support to defend the thief profession. Well before I get ruined we do have some techniques we're gonna try before ruling theft as unprofitable. It'll be another surprise for RMR. And if they aren't enough (needs field testing), I'll return to the classic missions/pvp/mining like the rest of you
John Blackthorn	Posted - 2005.12.12 21:14:00 - [32] This is really simple to answer. If your not highly skilled and you sit in front of the screen for two hours real time mining a can of scord only to have some ***** drive by and steal it, it infurates people. And to add further fule to the fire is that the person who stole it at the moment can't be attacked and probibly can't even be war dec'ed because there in an npc corp.
TIELKERON	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:21:00 - [33] Cant wait... Death to all ore thieves woohoo....time to make a few Q'ships
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Mned Graydroggen Quote: DarkBluePanther007 Why pass such a stupid law?Most miners who own barges are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by mining in 1.0 Most Orethieves who own industrials are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by stealing in 1.0 That would be my answer Mned ahahaha - SUPA-PWNED!!! ur a genius lol. Death to Ore Thieves! And to the OP, wtf is a rich miner? have you really met one? i wish i was rich... LMAO. ---------------- Tom
Aleria Angelis	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:30:00 - [35] I salute ur bravery DBP007! But if you look at it this way: Ore theives can still operate, they will just need gud skills This will stop people using disposable alts to theive which is an exploit Perhaps now Ore theiving actualy requires some skill they mite get some respect for what they do. (OK maybe being abit over ambitous with this last point but u get my drift) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lav ya lots! -Aleria
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:46:00 - [36] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 12/12/2005 22:53:16 Quote: ...The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief... You just make sure the whole group is caught stealing, problem solved. Just hope them macros are programmed to try and deal with a single industrial lifter. Remind me about The Maze. I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message.
MuffinsRevenger	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:47:00 - [37] The new rules work great apart from the fact that whoever is steeling from you can shoot back this mainly beeing due to this giving griefers a tool to annoy the hell out of annyone mining in high security to but it's a step in the right direction of stoping asshats
EvilDoomer	Posted - 2005.12.12 23:05:00 - [38] Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 Originally by: EvilDoomer Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly. The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief. Why pass such a stupid law? Most miners who own barges are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by mining in 1.0 security sectors. Ore theft was therefore giving to the poor by taking from the very rich. Plus ore thiefs weren't something that really needed fighting against since most miners adapted to the phenomenon by mining in groups with a friendly hauler conveying the surplus of the containers: Teamwork. When we did manage to rob someone it usually started big discussions on local: community. So what will this part of the patch do? just work in favor of the strong, miners in corps with BSs and pvpers will be able to defend themselves Sometimes law and evolution should work more in favour of the small and poor. Please call that back, or do something else to help thief corps and the small and poor... STUPID LAW!!! you steal and Im just suppose to sit there. ** THAT! If you have the nutz to steal then be perpaired die if a corp and defeat you. You sound like a little thief who is going to get ruined becuase he cannot work for what he has but only wants to steal from people bustin ass to get some isk together. Im one.! hehe, I knew I wouldn't be getting much support to defend the thief profession. Well before I get ruined we do have some techniques we're gonna try before ruling theft as unprofitable. It'll be another surprise for RMR. And if they aren't enough (needs field testing), I'll return to the classic missions/pvp/mining like the rest of you Dont take this the wrong way! I dont like pirates I have alway said that. BUT! , Eve needs them to add a flavor to the game. Or the sound of mining laser and everyone sitting in a battleship we be really boring. And before I leave this game I will pirate. So If you ever see me pirating you need to ask for my stuff Im on the way out. Thanks EvilDoomer Chicago Mobsters** In-Game Channel:DAMOB
Otto Torivus	Posted - 2005.12.12 23:18:00 - [39] Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: Sentani Originally by: Onubis Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first... in eve, anything that shoots, you can shoot back. if it isint so, i will start killing kittens Death to Kittens!!
Mistress Macrohunter	Posted - 2005.12.12 23:20:00 - [40] I love it when thieves complain that miners can defend themselves after RMR. If you want to steal your going to need better tactics and friends its that simple.
Kira Natel	Posted - 2005.12.12 23:22:00 - [41] Not all miners are adverse to PvP
Sentani	Posted - 2005.12.12 23:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Onubis Originally by: Sentani Originally by: Onubis Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first... Err... worries I thought that was the case but now that few few people have said it im not sure. For the sake of Jove PLEASE make it so they can fire back!! well... the miner isnt the one commiting a fellony... so hes not crim-flaged... now if you fire back... CONCORDOKKEN(!) since your the bad guy... ____________ The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I. It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units.
Wanoah	Posted - 2005.12.12 23:24:00 - [43] The point of it is to enable more PvP in empire. It's all good as far as I'm concerned. Barriers - An Eve Novel
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.12.13 01:44:00 - [44] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 13/12/2005 01:52:50 Originally by: Sentani Originally by: Onubis Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first... That's how it should be, but not how it is. Instead we get a mechanic that will be used to gank noobs in high sec space and help ore thieves steal more ore, as they'll just transfer it from can to can, and have a buddy in a BS/HAC sit there and make sure the miner doesn't take it back. If they do... gank. This new mechanic doesn't hurt thieves, it helps them, and lets them kill noob miners additionally. It's a very poor mechanic (albeit with good intentions).
Onubis	Posted - 2005.12.13 02:09:00 - [45] Edited by: Onubis on 13/12/2005 02:10:21 Edited by: Onubis on 13/12/2005 02:10:00 Originally by: Sentani Originally by: Onubis Originally by: Sentani Originally by: Onubis Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first... Err... worries I thought that was the case but now that few few people have said it im not sure. For the sake of Jove PLEASE make it so they can fire back!! well... the miner isnt the one commiting a fellony... so hes not crim-flaged... now if you fire back... CONCORDOKKEN(!) since your the bad guy... Well technically its NOT a fellony, cos if it was then the ore stealers would get CONCORDOKKEN(!) the moment they move items from someone elses can. What is happening is CONCORD is saying "were not gona get involved you decide to shoot that little theif". Of course then the ore stealer should be allowed to defend him/herself. Also, there has to be a debate as to how much actual claim a miner has over ore if they have ejected it. Its not locked, read secure containers, so its fair game. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Training Sig Cloaking to LVL 5
DarkBluePanther007	Posted - 2005.12.13 03:27:00 - [46] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 13/12/2005 01:52:50 Originally by: Sentani Originally by: Onubis Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first... That's how it should be, but not how it is. Instead we get a mechanic that will be used to gank noobs in high sec space and help ore thieves steal more ore, as they'll just transfer it from can to can, and have a buddy in a BS/HAC sit there and make sure the miner doesn't take it back. If they do... gank. This new mechanic doesn't hurt thieves, it helps them, and lets them kill noob miners additionally. It's a very poor mechanic (albeit with good intentions). Yeah well to come to think of it it might be worst for miners, and instead of having harmless friendly thieves like we used to be, pirate pvpers will take advantage of the situation in a sadistical way... anyways we'll see how it goes, with the other changes RMR is going to make, many things will probably be very, very different soon, and our habits transformed...
Tony Fats	Posted - 2005.12.13 04:35:00 - [47] Edited by: Tony Fats on 13/12/2005 04:35:44 Ore theft made the game better by getting people out of highsec. If you're big enough to be mining jetcans full of ore, you're not a newbie, you shouldn't BE in 1.0 PERIOD. 1.0 is for NEWBIES, but now there's no fcking ORE left because all the gy empire miners are sitting there with large barge strip miners popping the roids, so newbie logs into the game in his IBIS, for the tutorial and goes to find all the roids have been picked clean. If someone stole your ore you deserved it, either for : 1) Being in highsec when you're no longer a newbie 2) Insisting on mining into jetcans for efficiency instead of secure cans for security 3) Mining solo so you never have to share any of your greedwh*re wealth We got these thousands of players floating in .5+ with billions of their pockets, crying when someone touches "their" ore, that they're sitting there shamelessly mining in 1.0 with their large barge. But you know what? You STILL won't fire. You'll just sit there and mine, and never fire on anybody, accumulate billions in wealth. Because if you were willing to face danger to mine in peace, you wouldn't be in secure space in the first place. The whole point of being in highsec is to be danger free. So now instead of hauler, I'm gonna have to come in a BS, jack your ore, jettison it into my own container, then transfer from your jetcan into my jetcan so my friend in the hauler can take it. And what will you do about it? Nothing. You'll cry and ask the devs to turn the game into Trammel, and they prolly will. We'll all just fly around being perfectly safe and stare at the pretty screensaver in the intergalactic chatroom.
Diatom	Posted - 2005.12.13 04:54:00 - [48] This is the stupidest discussion trying to rationalizing someone stealing from someone else. The ore belongs to the miner. The ore thief is exactly that a low life scum that violates the miner. If they want ore do like the miner and mine it. Your choice. Steal my ore and die "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there"
Drauqhk Shathet	Posted - 2005.12.13 05:33:00 - [49] Let me start by saying I recognize that theft is part of the game, and I accept it and deal with it without rancor. I like this change and can only see good things coming out of it. Theft will still occur, but now it will be better orchestrated and planned. I will be glad to see when no longer can any fool with an indy, race up to your can and take from it with impunity. At least now if a thief gets away with my ore he will have my respect as well my vengance... and if he makes it past the flagging period, I will make not further attempt at retribution. So in this way those that are serious about being a thief can still do it, and those dabblers that before could thumb their collective noses at everyone, will be dealt with. Maybe I will be fitting a warp scrambler on my mining ships now...
Archbishop	Posted - 2005.12.13 06:31:00 - [50] Quote: "In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly. The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief." This is funny in its own right. Except for Zeepo I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an ore thief in any corp but a noob corp. They make a point of being cowardly so you can't declare on them and blow them up. Archie VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Rabbitgod	Posted - 2005.12.13 06:53:00 - [51] If you think ore thives target barges only. WRONG! My first encounter with an ore thife was when I was minning in a newb ship trying to earn a frig. The theif was fling a domi. Here these will help
Ryctor	Posted - 2005.12.13 06:56:00 - [52] Originally by: Archbishop Quote: "In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly. The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief." This is funny in its own right. Except for Zeepo I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an ore thief in any corp but a noob corp. They make a point of being cowardly so you can't declare on them and blow them up. Archie I am offended by your lack of knowledge of my beloved profession
Wanoah	Posted - 2005.12.13 13:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Ryctor Originally by: Archbishop Quote: "In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly. The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief." This is funny in its own right. Except for Zeepo I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an ore thief in any corp but a noob corp. They make a point of being cowardly so you can't declare on them and blow them up. Archie I am offended by your lack of knowledge of my beloved profession I think you are the exception that proves the rule, Ryctor. Barriers - An Eve Novel
Matthew	Posted - 2005.12.13 14:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Vlad Morrolan You don't need this for miners to protect themselves at all, a few easy preventative measures makes it easy to avoid having your ore stolen at all You can also take preventative measures to avoid pirates, so by your logic there's no need to flag them so you can fight back against them. Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 Ok let the miners shoot back at us but for 20 minutes the whole corp seems much. Why not the corp? What's to say that the ore in the can is the individual's property, and not shared property of the corp? Or is it that you figure the miner isn't going to be heavily armed, so if it's only him that can shoot, and not his mate guarding the op, it'll be easier for you to get away? Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 And there was a way to fight back thieves. Beagle Corp Started 5th division that declared war on our thief corp so they could protect themselves. Most ore thief characters are alts with the minimum skills needed to fly a hauler. They stay in the noob corp specifically to avoid reprisal via wardec. Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 Last the thief profession, was an intermediate profession between pirate and industrial. A path that shouldn't be abandonned. And it's not being abandoned. Ore thieving is still perfectly possible, it now just requires more thought than pulling your indy alongside the nearest mining barge and stealing their can. If thieving as a profession was being abandoned, the thief flagging would call concordoken down on the thief. Originally by: SengH still doesnt solve using a noobie alt to launder the ore then take from there. You take from the noobie alts can.. your flagged to his whole gang and his main will come in and pop you. His other alt can then come take at will. Again, ore thieving is not supposed to be made impossible with these changes. The miner will get a warning pop-up before taking from the noobie alt's can, and can choose not to. It's certainly no worse than the current system, where such faffing around with laundering isn't necessary. Originally by: Summersnow I believe the 1 laser q-ship will be given away by the lack of turret animations. Only for smart and observant thieves. I forsee ship-scanners and passive targetters becoming popular fittings for thieves. Originally by: Kaell Meynn That's how it should be, but not how it is. Instead we get a mechanic that will be used to gank noobs in high sec space and help ore thieves steal more ore, as they'll just transfer it from can to can, and have a buddy in a BS/HAC sit there and make sure the miner doesn't take it back. If they do... gank. How is that worse than the current system where they can just take from the can with no comeback at all? The current system doesn't let the miner do anything, this one lets them fight back, but puts the responsibility on them to be able to win. There will be more than adequate pop-up warnings when someone tries that trick on you, if you fall for it, more fool you. Besides, the miner always has the choice of having their own buddy around as counter-gank. Admittedly I'm not sure how many will take that option, but it is there. Originally by: Tony Fats You STILL won't fire. You'll just sit there and mine, and never fire on anybody, accumulate billions in wealth. You don't know that. Right now, the miners don't have a choice. This gives them that choice. If you don't think they'll use it, you have nothing to worry about, and no reason to fear the change. Originally by: Tony Fats Because if you were willing to face danger to mine in peace, you wouldn't be in secure space in the first place. If you were willing to face danger to take people's stuff, you wouldn't be in secure space orethieving in the first place. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Onubis	Posted - 2005.12.13 14:50:00 - [55] Quote: Why not the corp? What's to say that the ore in the can is the individual's property, and not shared property of the corp? Or is it that you figure the miner isn't going to be heavily armed, so if it's only him that can shoot, and not his mate guarding the op, it'll be easier for you to get away? Its actually the whole gang that can shoot back. So this in many ways is better for miners. Imagine a 200 stronge gang in Jita all after you _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Training Sig Cloaking to LVL 5
nahtoh	Posted - 2005.12.13 14:57:00 - [56] Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 Sorry that previous post had the wrong quote. And there was a way to fight back thieves. Beagle Corp Started 5th division that declared war on our thief corp so they could protect themselves. When we started the thief corp we thought that half of EVE would have declared war on us, but some people actually congratulated us for the riots we were making and the whole animation it made. Otherwise miners in high sec just afk or fall asleep in front of their computer. (I doubt any count mineral after mineral that enters the can). Also people yelling your name and calling you an ore thief also is natural RP, and RP should always be defended. Last the thief profession, was an intermediate profession between pirate and industrial. A path that shouldn't be abandonned. You can't make EVE just get ore for a ship and equipment, then use it till it's blasted, there has to be intermediate paths to follow: one of them is theft, unless any of you have another idea for an intermediate profession? It now has risks no more annoying cowardly highsec NPC corp mbr orethives that are safe from combat...jetcan miners had a risk orethives...now the orthives have a risk.....****ed off jet an miners ;) "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
Agent Kenshin	Posted - 2005.12.13 15:42:00 - [57] This was implemented not only for the miners but for other people as well. Just now think about all you guys out there who see someone get blown up in a gang of people if you touch his dropped can you will get wasted by his gang mates in the same corp. I love the idea no more n00b alts coming out and looting our kills or our fallen comrades cans.. /emote just waits for then next person to take an MC can after RMR. Originally by: MAXSuicide only carebears call pvpers 'greifers' ehehehh....
BoinKlasik	Posted - 2005.12.13 17:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Onubis Quote: Why not the corp? What's to say that the ore in the can is the individual's property, and not shared property of the corp? Or is it that you figure the miner isn't going to be heavily armed, so if it's only him that can shoot, and not his mate guarding the op, it'll be easier for you to get away? Its actually the whole gang that can shoot back. So this in many ways is better for miners. Imagine a 200 stronge gang in Jita all after you and about 2000 medium drones O.o The Damsel is no longer in distress. She was rescued enough times that she got the hint and installed better security systems at home.
LORD STEALTH	Posted - 2005.12.13 18:31:00 - [59] Originally by: DarkBluePanther007 In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly. The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief. Why pass such a stupid law? Most miners who own barges are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by mining in 1.0 security sectors. Ore theft was therefore giving to the poor by taking from the very rich. Plus ore thiefs weren't something that really needed fighting against since most miners adapted to the phenomenon by mining in groups with a friendly hauler conveying the surplus of the containers: Teamwork. When we did manage to rob someone it usually started big discussions on local: community. So what will this part of the patch do? just work in favor of the strong, miners in corps with BSs and pvpers will be able to defend themselves Sometimes law and evolution should work more in favour of the small and poor. Please call that back, or do something else to help thief corps and the small and poor... For the sole purpose of giving the miners whiners a chance to cool off, and for you all to take up the whining slack.
Aenod Ina	Posted - 2005.12.13 19:03:00 - [60] This won't affect pirates one way or the other. Pirates work hard at gaining the skills and equipment they need to engage an armed or escorted opponent efficiently. I may not like losing cruisers to them, but they do take at least some calculated risk to achieve their reward, and they did put in the time and effort to do more than pick up the ability to pilot an Industrial, and tip an alt a million ISK seed money. And honestly, without them, what would make low sec an adventure? The only people this is going to upset, are the lazy ones that can't be bothered to do their own mining. No, I don't macro mine. Yes, I watch as each cycle goes into the jet can (what choice do I have if I am legitmately playing the game). No, I am not a multi millionaire (though this one somewhat eludes me as to significance- stealing is ok, provided your victim is wealthy? Someone needs to brush up on their ethics). Finally, yes, it hurts when I watch as some jackass walks off with the product of the last hour of staring at a screen in a pursuit slightly less interesting than watching paint dry. Don't like the idea you may have to take a risk, or at least put out some work and effort expended to generate income? Cry me a river.

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