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DarkBluePanther007
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:23:00 -
[1]
In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly.
The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief.
Why pass such a stupid law? Most miners who own barges are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by mining in 1.0 security sectors. Ore theft was therefore giving to the poor by taking from the very rich.
Plus ore thiefs weren't something that really needed fighting against since most miners adapted to the phenomenon by mining in groups with a friendly hauler conveying the surplus of the containers: Teamwork.
When we did manage to rob someone it usually started big discussions on local: community.
So what will this part of the patch do? just work in favor of the strong, miners in corps with BSs and pvpers will be able to defend themselves
Sometimes law and evolution should work more in favour of the small and poor. Please call that back, or do something else to help thief corps and the small and poor...
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Folstrum
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Folstrum on 12/12/2005 19:28:59
 Quote:
Why pass such a stupid law?
I'd say mostly due to the popular request of infuriated miners whose ore kept getting stolen without them being allowed to fire on the thief.
BTW I have 0 sp in mining, this may make my opinion either more or less valid.
In any case its a good thing, lets them vent a bit.
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Onubis
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:29:00 -
[3]
Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back 
/me puts bets on the number of threads about this on week after patch 
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Training Sig Cloaking to LVL 5
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:30:00 -
[4]
i think its probably due to:
a) whining
and
b) how much RP sense does it make that if someone steals, the cops will turn a blind eye, but come down with a vengeance on any reprisals
and btw, get a shorter name if your forum alting.
and post with your main
Where is my I-win button, CCP? |
franny
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:36:00 -
[5]
can you confirm the miner is a bazillioner?
I know one of my co-workers has a barge, but can't afford half the stuff I own(and he's played longer than me)
where as I can barely use a miner 2
risk vs reward, he stays above .5 mostly, I praticly live in 0.1 - 0.4
back to the theiving, so you now have to train your alt theif to be more than an indy pilot, you need to add some defensive and support skills, change your setup a bit, you know... use your brain
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Onubis
Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back
was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first...
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The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:38:00 -
[7]
I just want to see someone use a Carrier to 'ore thief'.
/me takes 1 piece of veld.
/me watches a dozen corpmates of the miner warp in and lock.
/me launches fighters as they open fire.
/me watches fighters pwn the **** out of the gang.
/me activates tractor beams and hauls in the loot cans.
 
------------------------------------
Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
Onubis
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sentani
Originally by: Onubis
Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back
was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first...
Err... *worries* I thought that was the case but now that few few people have said it im not sure. For the sake of Jove PLEASE make it so they can fire back!! 
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Training Sig Cloaking to LVL 5
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sentani
Originally by: Onubis
Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back
was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first...
in eve, anything that shoots, you can shoot back.
if it isint so, i will start killing kittens
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PredatorPT
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sentani
Originally by: Onubis
Once they fire on your ship, you will be able to fire back
was under the impression that the theif gets CONCORDOKKEN(!) if he shoots at the owner even if the owner enganged first...
When someone fires at you FIRST, you can ALWAYS fire back without getting killed by CONCORD. Wouldn't make any sense to be shot at and having no chance of fighting back.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:42:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Andrue on 12/12/2005 19:42:35
Originally by: DarkBluePanther007
In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly.
The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief.
That gets you full marks and a fanfare for being one of the few people to actually understand the mechanics and consequences of the law.
Quote:
Why pass such a stupid law?
Sadly you lost all your marks that time by demonstrating a woeful ignorance of Eve history and failing to put yourself in the shoes of the miner. Mining to a jet can has been a fact of life for over two years. For all the arguments for/against this no-one can deny that it is now part of mining. Once you accept that jet can mining is not going away you have to take the next logical step and give miners a chance to fight back.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Onubis
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Andrue
Edited by: Andrue on 12/12/2005 19:42:35
Originally by: DarkBluePanther007
In RMR a gang or corp will be able to shoot a guy who opened a can for like 20 minutes if I understood correctly.
The thief's corp or gang won't even be able to defend thief.
That gets you full marks and a fanfare for being one of the few people to actually understand the mechanics and consequences of the law.
Quote:
Why pass such a stupid law?
Sadly you lost all your marks that time by demonstrating a woeful ignorance of Eve history and failing to put yourself in the shoes of the miner. Mining to a jet can has been a fact of life for over two years. For all the arguments for/against this no-one can deny that it is now part of mining. Once you accept that jet can mining is not going away you have to take the next logical step and give miners a chance to fight back.
Tbh matey just cos "its been like that for 2 years" isnt exactly a good reason, long standing game methods get nerfed all the time.
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Training Sig Cloaking to LVL 5
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Vlad Morrolan
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Andrue
Sadly you lost all your marks that time by demonstrating a woeful ignorance of Eve history and failing to put yourself in the shoes of the miner. Mining to a jet can has been a fact of life for over two years. For all the arguments for/against this no-one can deny that it is now part of mining. Once you accept that jet can mining is not going away you have to take the next logical step and give miners a chance to fight back.
You don't need this for miners to protect themselves at all, a few easy preventative measures makes it easy to avoid having your ore stolen at all, you just have to not work alone. 2 pilots hauling in indys guarantees that you have a hauler on-station at all times to immediately recover your ore, and also means the most you lose to a thief is 3 minutes work, since you never have a 1/2-hour's work sitting around to be stolen. The worst a thief could do would be to force you to have to set up elsewhere. And a thief won't waste their time to get a single cycle's worth of ore anyways. Heck, even a secure can makes it easy to not have to worry, since it only has to be large enough to hold one cycle's worth of ore at a time.
Simply put: Teamwork > ore thieves.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:54:00 -
[14]
its in work with it pretend to mine in high sec with a apoc (have 1 miner II and hte rest combat) let em steal from ya
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IDesert FoxI
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Posted - 2005.12.12 19:57:00 -
[15]
To be honest though, why should you get to freeload off of a miner, who could have been there a while? Not all miners are rich, and you wont be if you decide to steal cans. If you steal a can, the miner stops and collects (in theory), and so you get 1 small quick fix for isk. But keep doing it, and whenever you go into a system, people will start yelling your name and labelling you as an ore thief. There are many more profitable ways to make isk.
Besides, in real life, if I stole your wallet and then walked off, would you just yell at me? Or would you want to kick the s*** into me? Apply this to how miners feel.
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Onubis
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: IDesert FoxI
Besides, in real life, if I stole your wallet and then walked off, would you just yell at me? Or would you want to kick the s*** into me? Apply this to how miners feel.
Thats the point! And the other person can kick the crapiola out of you, if he can.
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Training Sig Cloaking to LVL 5
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DarkBluePanther007
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: HippoKing
i think its probably due to:
a) whining
and
b) how much RP sense does it make that if someone steals, the cops will turn a blind eye, but come down with a vengeance on any reprisals
yeah but RP sense says that in any society there are thieves, so there should be in EVE.
Ok let the miners shoot back at us but for 20 minutes the whole corp seems much. I mean for opening a container you're going to have to hide in a station for that time, or dock and pull out a BS (if you have one but I don't) and start a pvp carnage. Doesn't sound logical to me
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:18:00 -
[18]
DBP thats the point its a defacto aggo timer just like initially taking aggressive action in low sec u aggo the gate guns and at the same time flash red for a time when anyone can shoot the .... outta u.
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Kurren
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:20:00 -
[19]
Basically, it's being implemented because...
If somebody steals from you, wouldn't you like to get yor stuff back? Don't you just want to kill 'em for taking your hard earned goodies? Don't you just loath the thief for stealing from YOU?
Now you can do something about it. You don't have to though. If you're happy letting people steal from you, by all means, let them steal from you. But, for the most-part, people don't like being stolen from. And they hate even more, not being able to do anything about it. That's why this is being implemented (put in the game). Now you can fight back if you so choose.
Sigs must be related to EVE. -Capsicum
=) |
Lygos
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:25:00 -
[20]
I look forward to more epic Badger vs. Badger badly compressed and dubbed films in one week.
Also a flurry of posts on Mammoth EW & Snipe Boosting setups.
Targetting Sig Variance -- "Everything I love is combustible." |
DarkBluePanther007
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: IDesert FoxI
To be honest though, why should you get to freeload off of a miner, who could have been there a while? Not all miners are rich, and you wont be if you decide to steal cans. If you steal a can, the miner stops and collects (in theory), and so you get 1 small quick fix for isk. But keep doing it, and whenever you go into a system, people will start yelling your name and labelling you as an ore thief. There are many more profitable ways to make isk.
Besides, in real life, if I stole your wallet and then walked off, would you just yell at me? Or would you want to kick the s*** into me? Apply this to how miners feel.
Sorry that previous post had the wrong quote.
And there was a way to fight back thieves. Beagle Corp Started 5th division that declared war on our thief corp so they could protect themselves. When we started the thief corp we thought that half of EVE would have declared war on us, but some people actually congratulated us for the riots we were making and the whole animation it made. Otherwise miners in high sec just afk or fall asleep in front of their computer. (I doubt any count mineral after mineral that enters the can).
Also people yelling your name and calling you an ore thief also is natural RP, and RP should always be defended.
Last the thief profession, was an intermediate profession between pirate and industrial. A path that shouldn't be abandonned. You can't make EVE just get ore for a ship and equipment, then use it till it's blasted, there has to be intermediate paths to follow: one of them is theft, unless any of you have another idea for an intermediate profession?
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phillip duncan
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:29:00 -
[22]
Or if you what to get a steady supply to steal and do miners a favour, locate, patition and steal from a Macro miner. They are normally in an NPC corp so only the person that created the can is allowed to shoot at you.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:33:00 -
[23]
still doesnt solve using a noobie alt to launder the ore then take from there. You take from the noobie alts can.. your flagged to his whole gang and his main will come in and pop you. His other alt can then come take at will.
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: sonofollo
its in work with it pretend to mine in high sec with a apoc (have 1 miner II and hte rest combat) let em steal from ya
I was thinking of doing that :)
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:39:00 -
[25]
Mining will now generate conflict.
Conflict gets stuff blowed up.
Blowed up stuff needs to be replaced.
Replaced stuff needs to be manufactuered.
Manufactured stuff needs minies.
Minies come from mining.
See, self perpetuating cycle in which the ore thieves now help the miners by getting blowed up requireing more minies which drives mini prices up for the miners.
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: sonofollo
its in work with it pretend to mine in high sec with a apoc (have 1 miner II and hte rest combat) let em steal from ya
I was thinking of doing that :)
use a dominex and run all mining lasers and use the drones/jammers to wtfpwn them instead.
I believe the 1 laser q-ship will be given away by the lack of turret animations.
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Claude Leon
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: DarkBluePanther007
Originally by: HippoKing
i think its probably due to:
a) whining
and
b) how much RP sense does it make that if someone steals, the cops will turn a blind eye, but come down with a vengeance on any reprisals
yeah but RP sense says that in any society there are thieves, so there should be in EVE.
Ok let the miners shoot back at us but for 20 minutes the whole corp seems much. I mean for opening a container you're going to have to hide in a station for that time, or dock and pull out a BS (if you have one but I don't) and start a pvp carnage. Doesn't sound logical to me
The problem is that theiving has hand no reprocautions(sp?) until now. Plus, most ore theives are griefing alts anyway. The theivery "profession" would be legit if people used their mains for it.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.12.12 20:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DarkBluePanther007
Originally by: HippoKing
i think its probably due to:
a) whining
and
b) how much RP sense does it make that if someone steals, the cops will turn a blind eye, but come down with a vengeance on any reprisals
yeah but RP sense says that in any society there are thieves, so there should be in EVE.
Ok let the miners shoot back at us but for 20 minutes the whole corp seems much. I mean for opening a container you're going to have to hide in a station for that time, or dock and pull out a BS (if you have one but I don't) and start a pvp carnage. Doesn't sound logical to me
yes. in good RP there will always be thieves. there will be thieves after RMR.
but it will be better RP because the thieves aren't protected by the police - that makes no RP sense
Where is my I-win button, CCP? |
Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:02:00 -
[29]
Quote:
DarkBluePanther007
Why pass such a stupid law?Most miners who own barges are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by mining in 1.0
Most Orethieves who own industrials are already multi millionaires without taking any risks by stealing in 1.0
That would be my answer
Mned
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Bawldeux IV
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Folstrum
Edited by: Folstrum on 12/12/2005 19:28:59
Quote:
Why pass such a stupid law?
I'd say mostly due to the popular request of infuriated miners whose ore kept getting stolen without them being allowed to fire on the thief.
BTW I have 0 sp in mining, this may make my opinion either more or less valid.
In any case its a good thing, lets them vent a bit.
more valid IMHO(although you have at least 500 mining sp's I am sure [default of eve toons])
I have no simpathy, you steal, you are a target for a set time, seems perfectly fair, unless you want no risk in your thieving ways.
do the crime, pay the time, nuff said.
Ooooops, had a nice siggy, but its 14k over the size limit....<sniff, tears>
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