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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:00:00 -
[1]
Just kinda keeping tabs on our tactics versus Macrominer countertactics in somewhat chronological order.
"EVE" denotes the general population of EVE. "M" denotes Macroers.
EVE: Macromining is an exploit and a EULA violation. Players petition and CCP tries to convo the accused while looking at the logs. If the logs indicate macroing, and the Accused does not respond to repeated attempts to communicate, player may be banned.
M: Stay at the keys of one machine, or create a Macro that can automatically respond to or alerts the AFK Macrowner when a conversations is initiated.
EVE: Suicide bombings on the rise, players slaughter undefended barges.
M: Put code into macros to defend themselves, or sit in a defender and cover the macro, suiciding the suicide bomber if one gets close.
EVE: Upgrade suicide ships to Caracals and Blackbirds.
M: Stop using barges, start using Apocalypse class ships.
EVE: RMR changes will create a flagging system that can cause a Macro to aggro-flag itself. Macros will get spanked in high-sec.
M: Move to low-sec, start using more combat drones and fitting at least one weapon turret on mining BS.
I post this to galvanize. So far, our efforts as a community have pushed our common problem into more and more sensitive situations. We're making macroing less and less profitable, especially for ISK sellers, by making them stop using 50 mil worth per barge and its gear to up to 150mil per Battleship and gear, and then killing them anyway.
Obviously, the Macroers will find new ways to defend themselves. The more patient ones will train skills to armor tank their BS. They may use more powerful defenders, trying to find a weakness in the mechanics that makes a "perfect" anti-pirate setup. Thankfully, neither of these will help. Tanking is tough, but a couple of heavy NOS and it's all over, now that they can be shot in low sec. There are no perfect setups. And even if they found somethign to protect against 5 Caracals in high-sec, players will fund corps like Reservoir Dogs to sacrifice 65 mil battleships to slaughter the macrominers.
And for every step back the macroers/afkers have to take, that's profit being torn out from under them. First we kick them out of barges, so they have to step back and train alts or buy characters to have the skills to fly a Tier 2 battleship. We start killing those, they have to train MORE skills just to fit WCS and all those miner IIs on the same ship. They carry drones, we carry smartbombs. For every turret slot occupied by a weapon to defend them, they lose another mining beam and therefore more profit.
The goal, we must keep in mind, is to push the macroer to the end that they have to actually play the game legitimately to be able to get the ISK they want. That means ISK sales on the internet double as it now takes twice the time for a macroer to get all that ISK to sell. The market for illegal ISK begins to choke. $140 for 100 mil pushes players away, but it's what the macroer has to do in order to cover all those extra months.
THIS is our goal, as a community, both pirate and carebear. We are, as a collective group, literally invaded by that hostile race of machines dreamt up in sci-fi fairytales. So choke them. Choke them until you see the ISK leaking out of their creepy, lifeless vessels. Choke them until you see alts screaming on the forums, begging it all to stop under the guise of "defending newbs" because their profits have gone through the floor. Take that screaming for the begging that it is, and take sadistic glee in knowing that it was likely HIS macro you destroyed, and HIS pod you rend asunder when you kill that strangely named, month-old pod.
Reach into that dark part of yourself. That part you're ashamed of and would never let play IRL. Get to know it. Find a macrominer, confirm the macro, petition and let the demon out. Let it even tear the frozen corpse apart. Make Them Scream;make them silent.
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 This post brought to you by the letter YARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR |
Oxymoron666
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:13:00 -
[2]
Amen to that.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:19:00 -
[3]
Damn...I'm so pumped I could go kick a macro miner right in the face!
In all seriousness...if "policing our own" as a player community is what it comes down to, then so be it. Nicely written, and *signed*
Garreck
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Jimmy Buffet
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:19:00 -
[4]
Praises the "Rev" Corvus Dove
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Zachios Primos
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:34:00 -
[5]
signed...with the macrominer's blood. YAR!
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Botox Bandits - Got shot?
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Freibeuter
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Posted - 2005.12.12 21:35:00 -
[6]
I like this gaming jihad ^^
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.12.12 22:17:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Galk on 12/12/2005 22:18:46
Corvus Dove.
I assure you, you do not speak for the entire community.
You do not represent me.
The only part of the post i do agree with is petition a suspected macro miner. Then let the proper authority investigate your petition.
In my eyes, you are inciting harrasment against what are inocent paying customers with this post. The only actions that should be taking place are that of the game masters, once they have proven beyond a doubt that they are using macro's.
Then by all means kick them out, something iv'e repeatedly stated im glad to see happen, though perhaps not anounced in offical forum threads, or headlined on the ingame news (again this incites people... why i belive they have a policy of not disccussing warnings or bans in public) this issue should be no different i belive!!
One thing i would implore you to remember though, macroing is a violation of the eula, as you corectly state.
You, or the community do not enforce that agreement however.
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She says It's only in my head
She says Shhh I know it's only in my head
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Prex Altun
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Posted - 2005.12.12 22:24:00 -
[8]
Good thing blowing up a macro miner can net you a few million ISK in moduals. Enforcing or just being a bastard, its a good business!
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.12 22:36:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Galk
You, or the community do not enforce that agreement however.
There's nothing that says he can't if he wants to.
-
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Jitas Death
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Posted - 2005.12.12 22:53:00 -
[10]
I personally have a small fortune stashed away which i shall spend outfitting myself with kamikessies to take out any suspected macro miners i come across...
Fear me Jita, for the days of the macro miners are coming to an end
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xOm3gAx
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Posted - 2005.12.12 22:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Galk
You, or the community do not enforce that agreement however.
There's nothing that says he can't if he wants to.
Amen to that brother =)
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*Decloaks and starts blasting your sig* Applesauce Biotch
Ok who nerf batted my sig >again<?
*^^Bows^^* ^^ALL HAIL THE UBERNESS OF Thee^^
Succumb to your nightmares
Darkness |
Ecnav
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Posted - 2005.12.12 23:01:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ecnav on 12/12/2005 23:02:56
how can you not agree with what this man is saying?
this is my first *sign*
yaaay
http://www.farstrider.de/hirr/EVE/signatures/ecnavsig.png
Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. mail us if you have questions -Garik Daemon |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.12 23:05:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Corvus Dove on 12/12/2005 23:13:58
Galk
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Choke them until you see alts screaming on the forums, begging it all to stop under the guise of "defending newbs" because their profits have gone through the floor.
The most viable prose is that written with the ability to defend itself without argument.
The tactics used to thwart CCP's ability to police Macroing are listed above, and it has placed the players as the only ones who can defend their own community. With that comes the responsibility to do so.
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MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.12 23:16:00 -
[14]
He might not speak for you, Galk, but he speaks for the sane gamers. Leave your ignorance at the door please, or start naming some people you know are legit miners using garbled letters for names, and are online mining 23 hours a day, otherwise, please be silent.
I am all for the hunts and massacring of macroers. It's not hard to do some deductions that those 3-30 garbled names people always seen who never respond, are not indivudals playing and mining for corp or to make their pirate alts some cash. Ofcoruse logic and common sense go a long way, and I do understand some people lack it. However, I'm all for people liek reservior dogs and the like who make life hard for farmers and macroers.
I look forward to the day I find sites selling 100mil isk for $50USD or more because they're having such an insanely hard time turning a profit because macro extermination squads are constantly crippling them.
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Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
Karistis
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Posted - 2005.12.12 23:49:00 -
[15]
this is an awesome thread
i especially like the last line :D
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2005.01.17 22:04:22 combat Chackle [PUSY] perfectly runs from you, wrecking for 1500 cowardice. |
Serenity Frye
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Posted - 2005.12.13 02:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Galk
Edited by: Galk on 12/12/2005 22:18:46
Corvus Dove.
I assure you, you do not speak for the entire community.
You do not represent me.
The only part of the post i do agree with is petition a suspected macro miner. Then let the proper authority investigate your petition.
In my eyes, you are inciting harrasment against what are inocent paying customers with this post. The only actions that should be taking place are that of the game masters, once they have proven beyond a doubt that they are using macro's.
Then by all means kick them out, something iv'e repeatedly stated im glad to see happen, though perhaps not anounced in offical forum threads, or headlined on the ingame news (again this incites people... why i belive they have a policy of not disccussing warnings or bans in public) this issue should be no different i belive!!
One thing i would implore you to remember though, macroing is a violation of the eula, as you corectly state.
You, or the community do not enforce that agreement however.
Macro'ers aren't innocent paying customers. Innocent paying customers would say something in local or smack.
Harassment, lol
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Skyscorcher
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Posted - 2005.12.13 02:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Galk
The only part of the post i do agree with is petition a suspected macro miner. Then let the proper authority investigate your petition.
Dude, if that worked, we wouldn't be at this point where we have multiple anti-macrominer corps out doing their thing. Things happen for a reason, and apparently the macro miner issue has gotten to the point to warrant this type of vigilante response.
I think it's interesting.
______________________________
PLAY LIKE YA GOT A PAIR! |
Amaron Ghant
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Posted - 2005.12.13 16:04:00 -
[18]
As far as i¦m concerned, you can kill all the macroers you can find. Just make sure they are macroers  |
Galk
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Posted - 2005.12.13 19:18:00 -
[19]
You all miss the point entirely.
The point is that they are 'not' macro users until they are proven to be so, so adressing me by saying "yes but macro users arn't inocent" then i could/would only agree.
So yes it is harrasment of inocent paying customers.
When people have been proven to be using macro's, ccp has kicked them out plain and simple, as it should be.
And as for sanity, you must be joking, all these macro threads i warned at the very begining would create mass hystria and paranoia, and lead to this type of happening.
It's gone way beyond control now, but still i argue for the inocent until proven guilty, iv'e been the victim in eve of this, and seen others suffer simular circumstances.
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She says It's only in my head
She says Shhh I know it's only in my head
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Empyre
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Posted - 2005.12.13 19:38:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Empyre on 13/12/2005 19:40:10
Originally by: Corvus Dove
..more macro'er forum space wasting..
oh look..yet ANOTHER macro'er thread. and only 2 threads up from your OTHER macro'ing thread. how many more you want to create?
how about a witch-hunt for macro'er doomsday propheteering? o_O
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my playstyle is anti-pirate. what does this mean? it means you'll never catch me in a valuable ship and/or setup where it can be compromised. go on, trade your ammo for the scraps you'll get. |
Right Eyeighty
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Posted - 2005.12.13 20:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Empyre
Edited by: Empyre on 13/12/2005 19:40:10
Originally by: Corvus Dove
..more macro'er forum space wasting..
oh look..yet ANOTHER macro'er thread. and only 2 threads up from your OTHER macro'ing thread. how many more you want to create?
how about a witch-hunt for macro'er doomsday propheteering? o_O
LET THE WITCHES HUNT BEGIN!!
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And now a word from my sponsor
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Brastagi
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Posted - 2005.12.13 20:30:00 -
[22]
Alhto I support harrassing Macroers... I couldn't help the feeling that this has gotten bit out of hand @_@;;
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Watch me gravitate Ha ha ha ha ha....
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.12.13 20:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Galk
iv'e been the victim in eve of this, and seen others suffer simular circumstances.
If they arent macroers...why would that have happened?
~Sobe
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Darpz
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
CCP will nerf this probably, but hey, worth a try
so your saying I should of kept my mouth shut?
Yup.
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Freibeuter
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Posted - 2005.12.13 20:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Galk
iv'e been the victim in eve of this
One more reason for you to hate macroers and support the cause ;)
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.13 20:48:00 -
[25]
Galk and Empyre = the pundits addressed in my first post. Take their whining for what it is....politics to halt a war machine destroying the illicit business they support.
I have posted elsewhere on how to survive our little jihad, and Resevoir Dogs has suggested they provide compensation for accidental kills. The ones doing the culling offer fairness, while the ones who oppose it refer to methods that they know will not work as being the only acceptable way. This suggests the type of people who are the customer base for the macroers. Empyre himself once cited that ISK sellers are always out of stock...how would he know, unless he was a buyer? These are the faces of the cheater. Much like the famous tale, we are presented with Ignorance (people using Galk's arguments) and Want (people using Empyre's arguments).
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MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM |
Empyre
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Posted - 2005.12.13 21:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Galk and Empyre = the pundits addressed in my first post. Take their whining for what it is....politics to halt a war machine destroying the illicit business they support.
I have posted elsewhere on how to survive our little jihad, and Resevoir Dogs has suggested they provide compensation for accidental kills. The ones doing the culling offer fairness, while the ones who oppose it refer to methods that they know will not work as being the only acceptable way. This suggests the type of people who are the customer base for the macroers. Empyre himself once cited that ISK sellers are always out of stock...how would he know, unless he was a buyer? These are the faces of the cheater. Much like the famous tale, we are presented with Ignorance (people using Galk's arguments) and Want (people using Empyre's arguments).
aw..upset that you can't even fathom the actual points layed out at varying levels of comprehension? its ok..i sympathize with you..there there. 
now i can honestly say you are either a total idiot or you don't actually READ peoples' posts. I've already explained to you how I know ISK is not in stock but you keep reiterating this garbage in an attempt to make me appear like an ISK buyer..only reaffirming that you are not exempt from banter populating (if it isn't apparent by your multiple macro'er threads despite the other 98901285 of them already spamming the forums).
i know you're not an idiot, it shows in (some of) your posts. why you continue to fail to read AND comprehend is beyond me.
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my playstyle is anti-pirate. what does this mean? it means you'll never catch me in a valuable ship and/or setup where it can be compromised. go on, trade your ammo for the scraps you'll get. |
Galk
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Posted - 2005.12.13 21:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Freibeuter
Originally by: Galk
iv'e been the victim in eve of this
One more reason for you to hate macroers and support the cause ;)
No by victim of this i mean those with ill intent and loud voices.
Which i had absolutely no defence against, as i could not prove that i wasn't doing what they claimed.
What they claimed was sinister enough to bring an awfull lot of haterd my way, from people that had never even been in the same systems as me in the game, let alone talked to me or actualy knew anything about me... other than what they had been told....
All completly unfounded, and not true in any sence, yet people were manipulated into beliving it was true, enough to flood petitions against me for months.
I would not be here if they simpley listened to the masses, why i fight this issue and others like it.
As for corvus dove, you wish to take my words as whinning, then you realy arn't listening.
Iv'e been involved in online gamming for over 8 years now at the highest levels (clans/leagues ect), iv'e allways detested cheats with a passion. Anything thats been borderline but acceptable iv'e allways had a simular opinion of, from people using gl modulate to the folks that would allways play as the smallest/fastest model.. making them harder to hit.... these are people that cheat others by gaining every advantage posible.
I don't like that, so when i sit at my screen mining for up to 20hrs a day (yes i have done that... and not only for my own benift but for others also)... i think about the macro'ers... i think of the players with the normal names... that could well be doing what im hoping to achive (build something ect) yet they arn't putting themselfs through my 20hrs of grind like i am....
However, im a beliver in justice and the truth, i belive sooner or later ccp will get around this problem, from what iv'e seen in the latest notes being quoted in the gd about ristrictions in trial accounts, and improved gm tools, id expect things to get better on the macro's front.
But i do not support you or your actions, or those that would blindly follow you.
If you don't know why, i suggest you read the first few paragraphs over and over.
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She says It's only in my head
She says Shhh I know it's only in my head
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.12.13 22:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Galk
iv'e allways detested cheats with a passion. Anything thats been borderline but acceptable iv'e allways had a simular opinion of, from people using gl modulate to the folks that would allways play as the smallest/fastest model.. making them harder to hit.... these are people that cheat others by gaining every advantage posible.
Wowee! This is drifting way off topic, and I apologize, but this jumped right out at me...you consider interceptor pilots to be cheaters? Or at least equate them as such in your mind?
Gotta say, you just lost any shred of credibility if that's what you meant with that statement. Though, from the tone of your posts in this thread, I seriously doubt you care...
Garreck
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.13 22:52:00 -
[29]
A well argued response. You'll have to forgive the Machiavellian nature of this campaign, however. There will be casualties. However, keep in mind that there are filtering methods being put into place to prevent exactly what you describe, and while some freelancers may hit the wrong targets, we have to keep in mind something about EVE.
It doesn't get much more Machiavellian than EVE.
Nonetheless, the number of accidental misdiagnoses are going to be minimal. AFK miners are typically macroing as well: even if they aren't, they're AFK while mining, which doesn't leave much room for excuse. They're the reason Scord used to be more valuable than Jaspet a few months ago, if you recall. They really need to go too.
Simply participating in the community would be enough to keep people off of you.
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MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM |
Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2005.12.13 23:07:00 -
[30]
PREACH BROTHER CORVUS!!!
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Empyre
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Posted - 2005.12.13 23:31:00 -
[31]
eet moR chiKen
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my playstyle is anti-pirate. what does this mean? it means you'll never catch me in a valuable ship and/or setup where it can be compromised. go on, trade your ammo for the scraps you'll get. |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.12.13 23:33:00 -
[32]
You guys keep calling me "Reverend" and "Brother" and my broke self will have to start passing around a collection plate ;).
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MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM |
Skyscorcher
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Posted - 2005.12.14 02:00:00 -
[33]
Quote:
People used to play as the athena model just because it was the hardest to see, smallest fastest model.
That's called Metagaming. Nothing actually wrong with that.
No, I don't appreciate it when people do that either, but it doesn't fall into cheater category.
Anyhow, just petitioning these guys isn't going to be enough. All they're going to do is make a new character or account and get right back to it. CCP can't actually stop that sort of thing, but the player base can if it shows the macro miners that they're not welcome here. That making selling ISK is not going to be easy.
And we know that the Anti-Macro corps are doing a good job at it because the Macro miners are changing their tactics in response to the Anti-Macro's actions. Eventually, the Macro Miners are going to realize that they're at the point where they're not making much money at all and just give up on it all.
______________________________
PLAY LIKE YA GOT A PAIR! |
Calisto Lockhart
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Posted - 2005.12.14 02:34:00 -
[34]
burn zee infidels
Originally by: SengH
TomB would probably use it as an excuse to develop some ridiculously overpowered weapon for the Jove mothership, then Oveur would ride it into the middle of the borg fleet and set it off |
Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2005.12.14 03:14:00 -
[35]
I swear this is like the Butlerian Jihad.
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Co-CEO of TKI
http://caldari-united.altgamer.com/forum/index.php |
Meryl Stryfe
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Posted - 2005.12.14 05:51:00 -
[36]
Smash the thinking machines! They shall pilot ships no more! BURN!
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AO refugee? pst! |
Lillith Argent
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Posted - 2005.12.14 10:32:00 -
[37]
"You wanna know how you do it? Here's how, they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue."
Movie quotes = greatness.
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Meryl Stryfe
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Duke Leto
But let us not rail about justice as long as we have arms and the freedom to use them.
Book quotes 4TW 
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AO refugee? pst! |
Garreck
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Posted - 2005.12.14 14:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Galk
The game i was actualy talking about was quake 2, where did i start going on about intercepters....?
Thank you for the clarification. We were talking about an Eve-specific issue here, and then you were suddenly on about "small, fast moving models" and equating that to cheating, and I'm thinking "eh?! no wonder he seems to have a problem with hunting down macro-ers. This guy's off his nutter..."
Do pardon me if I find "Quake 2" experience to be completely inapplicable to "Eve" experience.
Garreck
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
lollerflakes
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Posted - 2005.12.14 16:56:00 -
[40]
Edited by: lollerflakes on 14/12/2005 16:57:29
These people are poison, they are a plague to the gaming world.
Over the past few months there has been a great increase in the number of macrominer sightings.
Websites such as this and others (mostly run through Ebay) are a cancer to games. I agree with Corvus, there is only so much the GM's can do, the players have to start taking action.
It starts here.
EDIT : oh and before people start saying "OMG how DO J0o know about that site?!?! lololol" Lets just say i surf the net, and im not blind.
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Mercade
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Posted - 2005.12.14 18:03:00 -
[41]
She turned me into a newt
Originally by: kieron
...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia. |
Empyre
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Posted - 2005.12.14 18:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Mercade
She turned me into a newt
"...i got betta.."
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my playstyle is anti-pirate. what does this mean? it means you'll never catch me in a valuable ship and/or setup where it can be compromised. go on, trade your ammo for the scraps you'll get. |
Deimos Dentel
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Posted - 2005.12.14 20:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Galk
Edited by: Galk on 13/12/2005 23:19:29
People used to play as the athena model just because it was the hardest to see, smallest fastest model.
I don't see how that's cheating. At all. In fact, it sounds more like something any resonable person would do.
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MrMorph
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Posted - 2005.12.14 20:51:00 -
[44]
I hate macroers.
View video below my sig !
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Latest video: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=230503 |
Pandemic Thinking
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Posted - 2005.12.15 17:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: MrMorph
I hate macroers.
View video below my sig !
Beautiful...Just...
Give me a second, I'm misting up...
IT'S YOUR GAME - TAKE IT BACK
If I know one thing, I know this: I aim to Misbehave |
Empyre
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Posted - 2005.12.15 18:02:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Empyre on 15/12/2005 18:03:10
Originally by: MrMorph
I hate macroers.
View video below my sig !
you big fuckin bully.
just playin..even I can appreciate the pwnage there. if they weren't macro'ers they are probably way too embarassed to even try and remember what happened.
(ISD..there's a loophole in your language filter. might want to fix it..don't kill me!!)
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my playstyle is anti-pirate. what does this mean? it means you'll never catch me in a valuable ship and/or setup where it can be compromised. go on, trade your ammo for the scraps you'll get. |
Schiklegruber
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Posted - 2005.12.20 02:36:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Schiklegruber on 20/12/2005 02:37:00
I am new, but I might enlist a Kestrel-Kamikaze Alt for the hunt, but before I do, is there a calculation on the effects such raids actually have? Ie. ISK destroyed vs. ISK invested?
If it's to little, we might be better of to make a 'How to make a mining-macro' thread, so anyone can get access to tons of minerals, spoiling the market of the macrominers. A complete trashing of the mineral market might be drastic, but it would work.
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