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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2005.12.13 10:59:00 -
[31]
abdalion the problem is not the forum rules or if alts violate them. With an alt you can keep spamming lies, crap and twist discussions within the forum rules. The whole fanboi community shows it perfectly clear.
Not feeding the trolls would only work if "both" sides of a thread would actually keep their temper and accept alts as "non existant" however i tend to see that some factions welcome the support of alts openly.
Not just that, alts are often used to stirr trouble. As a selfrespecting corp in eve you have to defend against public slander or accusations because once the rumor is public other unaffiliated ppl will either believe it or ask the very same question the alt has asked (we have seen it in alt threads that if the accused party said "we dont reply to alts" 2 posts later a regular corp player asked the same to get an answer).
So to sum it up, the mods do have the tools but as another poster brilliantly showed the players havent.
If you want to slander your allies, have the guts to do so with your main. If you fear actions from your ceo or alliance maybe its time to shutup and let fear prevail ?
An alt post doesnt make you a brave man really.
Infact, alts are the cheap way out. You can slander friends, allies or enemies without actually fearing anykind of swing back for your main from it. How many ppl would wholeheartly argue with someone and insult/slander him if they would know "wardec coming in" or "and the primary is..." ?
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Ghost Red
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:02:00 -
[32]
The easiest solution is to force people to pick a primary character, and if they decide to post with an alt it says next to their name "Alty McAltington: Primary Char Joe Bloggs" That way, alts are tied to their primary chars.
Problem solved.
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DorilBabe
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:03:00 -
[33]
I think you are all missing the point. The problem is that without alts, all he information flow will be constricted. Freedom of speech is more important than your hurt feelings.
It "hurts" you to read famous alt posts? Don't
Alts getting on your nerves? Ignore them.
Alts are important. Freedom of speech must be maintained. Otherwise this forum will die.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:05:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 13/12/2005 11:06:31
 Originally by: Zhuge Liang
Rules for this thread
5. Unidentified alts should not post in this thread -Abdalion
Replace thread with "forum" and give the resident mods ability to see which alt goes with which account and we're done. Oh, and first-strike permabans on trial accounts ofc.
On the other hand, why should CCP enforce maturity ?
We mostly knwo who the alts are, don't we ?
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:09:00 -
[35]
Couple of points here.
1. Remove the ability for unidentified alts to post on this specific forum. That includes alts who post about a corp/alliance when they are not directly involved with them.
2. Don't limit it to 1 person from each corp/alliance. I think that is far too restricting.
I hope some agreement is come to on this even if it is a temporary trail run.
Thanks,
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL6) Tanto
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: DorilBabe
I think you are all missing the point. The problem is that without alts, all he information flow will be constricted. Freedom of speech is more important than your hurt feelings.
It "hurts" you to read famous alt posts? Don't
Alts getting on your nerves? Ignore them.
Alts are important. Freedom of speech must be maintained. Otherwise this forum will die.
As alts also have mains there is no restriction of the freedom of speech, just that you have to show colours if you post "out of line".
Initially there is something wrong with you, if you seek the freedom of speech by posting with an alt, as there is no freedom in it anyways.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:14:00 -
[37]
Or you could just actually deal with the content of the post, and completely ignore the name of the person who posted it. It's what gets said that's important; not who says it.
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Mortus Harbinger
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:14:00 -
[38]
The people who respond to alts are as big a problem as the alts themselves. The pattern seems to be that alts start the smack and then corp members who are offended can't restrain themselves.
The solution is really simple ... ignore them.
Not all noob corp members are trolls. I see many players who have been in a noob corp for over 12 months. Just because they choose to fly solo doesn't mean they shouldn't have a voice in this forum.
Now please ... every night say this mantra at least 10 time before you go to bed:
I will NOT feed the trolls. I will NOT feed the trolls.
If you ignore the flamebait, then it pretty quickly becomes impotent.
Mort
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:17:00 -
[39]
Wont fix it, then they'll just make alt corps, i have 4 of my own 
We're coming for you |
Evil Thug
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Posted - 2005.12.13 11:24:00 -
[40]
Its very easy to spread lie, flames etc. with alt. Its like 14 year old kid, sitting in i-net cafe, and pretending to be cool in internet chat-room. Same here, only with alts.
Personally i never posted in this section with an alt, i`m using alts only in "sell orders" forum. And very frequently, after writing post, in this section, i dont press "Post reply" button, and pressing "Cancel". Because there is many ppl, opinion of whos (spelling ?  ) something worth to me.
So, yes. I`m signing on this idea too.
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Ash to Ash
Dust to Dust |
Val Duane
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Posted - 2005.12.13 12:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Or you could just actually deal with the content of the post, and completely ignore the name of the person who posted it. It's what gets said that's important; not who says it.
Its when the content is blatent flamebait that is the problem. Saying that though....if the person asking a question or making a statement was someone we could recognise as a member of a specific corp or alliance, then I would have less of a problem with it.
It just seems crazy to say to people..."Stop replying to Alts who are flamebaiting!" while not looking for a solution to stop the alts from flamebaiting in the first place! Hence the reason for my opening post.
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Jherek Cornelian
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Posted - 2005.12.13 12:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Drilla
Edited by: Drilla on 13/12/2005 10:07:32
I have an alternative suggestion - add another section to this board that is only accessible to people in alliances and you can only post there if you have a 'PR' role in your corp, in your alliance.
Then there is a inter-galactic communication area where all alliance members can read but only those people the corps in the alliance deem as worthy can post.
You still keep this flame infested smacksection ofc. but the other would solve alot of stuff. Seeing as there is a section dedicated to alliance members only might encourage players in npc corps/new player to move to next phase of EVE and expand their gaming horizons.
Agree 100% with this.
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Ben Derindar
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Posted - 2005.12.13 12:26:00 -
[43]
I look at it like this. People can change their avatar for a fee, yet they can effectively change their name by posting with an alt without it costing them anything.
What about a system for the forum where, people nominate one character per account to post with for starters, and to change that posting character from one to another would cost something?
It wouldn't be a perfect solution - people could get around it with a second account full of alts - but surely it would help to at least some extent, and I'm sure CCP would appreciate the extra dosh from the die-hard forum warriors out there? 
/Ben
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Val Duane
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Posted - 2005.12.13 12:50:00 -
[44]
Another thing I would be more than happy with is at least a name and shame of the cowards. You wanna say something stupid in disguise or flamebait someone in disguise? Lets remove that disguise. Then you not only look stupid for saying what you said, but also look like a idiot for being too scared to say it with your main.
Don't be lame, post with your main!
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Darcuese
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Posted - 2005.12.13 13:10:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Darcuese on 13/12/2005 13:15:17
Originally by: Val Duane
Don't be lame, post with your main!
No I want and there is nothing you can do about it
Ups ..Im gonne
If this would be perfect world then I guess ppl wouldnt reply to alt posts, ppl wouldnt look at those posts and ppl wouldnt think about them at all.
Guess what...its not perfect world.
Its same crap as with press (yellow one).
You know that there are probably lies but there will allway be ppl that might beliave it and later would talk them self same way that they read on those yellow crap newspapers. One of those ppl could be mine friend and as a friend I would probably beliave him (cause he would look 100% sure about it)...and story would go on and on and on all around.
So no matter if ppl stop reply to alts crap/posts there will always be some that would think about it and later on talk about it .
Cause life ainght perfect and ppl are not perfect.
So , because of it, it isnt fair to alove those anonimus alts to posts...AT LEAST IN THIS SECTION Of FORUM....cause this is where politic live.
Now , it also ainght much fair to ask ppl to stop responding to alts posts when at same time admins admits those posts are crap and have power to FIX it somehow themself....or am I wrong?
Now , one of the questions is...If you set your mind to disable alt postings, would it be posible for you to do it?
If not...I guess this thread could be locked instantly...but I guess by admin answers so far, there is an option (even though it would mean hard work)
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ALL my words on this forum are my OWN thoughts and opinions |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.12.13 13:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Val Duane
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
It just seems crazy to say to people..."Stop replying to Alts who are flamebaiting!" while not looking for a solution to stop the alts from flamebaiting in the first place!
Not replying *is* the solution. If nobody feeds the trolls, they'll go away.
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Angelus X
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Posted - 2005.12.13 13:45:00 -
[47]
Here's a suggestion..
When alts/trolls break the forum rules, why don't the Mods name & shame the alts other characters/accounts, in the same thread?( which can't be too hard to identify, even with trial accounts? )
People would still be able to make anonymous posts within the forum rules, but it would stop the lame ones that just make flamebait/stupid posts, and perhaps convince people not to do it in the first place if they knew there was a chance they could get named & shamed.
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.12.13 13:48:00 -
[48]
how about we just turn off the forums for a week and go out and drink some beer instead.
and when we are drunk enough and we hear something we scream "damn alt bastid" and proceeds to pod them.
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Jasam mama
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Posted - 2005.12.13 13:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Val Duane
Not replying *is* the solution. If nobody feeds the trolls, they'll go away.
Do some thinkings yourself and not just copy/paste admins answers you brownnose guy. Think for a change and give us other soulution-there is always more then one.
yep, alton purpose
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.12.13 13:52:00 -
[50]
I personally enjoy alt flamebaits =)
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Darcuese
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Posted - 2005.12.13 13:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Angelus X
Here's a suggestion..
When alts/trolls break the forum rules, why don't the Mods name & shame the alts other characters/accounts, in the same thread?( which can't be too hard to identify, even with trial accounts? )
People would still be able to make anonymous posts within the forum rules, but it would stop the lame ones that just make flamebait/stupid posts, and perhaps convince people not to do it in the first place if they knew there was a chance they could get named & shamed.
/me raise glass in the name of the quote.
And trial accounts should be disabled of posting in this section. There are lots of help threads and friends that can help them without entering this section
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ALL my words on this forum are my OWN thoughts and opinions |
fisty
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Posted - 2005.12.13 14:20:00 -
[52]
Edited by: fisty on 13/12/2005 14:22:44
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Abdalion, I think you have missed the point somewhat. Alts shouldnt be alloweed to post in this section of the Forums, its a Corporation and Alliance section after all. There are plenty of other sections for a noob to gain help and advice, there is a recruitment centre should they wish to contact a corp for prospective employemnt.
This forum should be only for those that are in a player owned corporations. Wether or not the software can handle such specific posting priveleges filtering, is another matter.
i agree with you that alts are a pain in the ass etc...
but by simply looking at game mechanics npc corps are in effect corporation even tho they arnt corps made by ppl who play the game, ive seen plenty of people in npc corp that have been in it for several months because they like to freelance and taking away their right to post on this section of the forums wouldnt be fair towards that minority
just for example i am in a npc corp at the moment but if i have some questien or something i would like the freedom to do so, and you know quite well i aint an alt
under circumstances i agree there should be some measures of alt have restrictions on this part on this forum, but the idea that members of npc corps are not allowed to post on this section seems a little drastic to me
ciao |
fisty
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Posted - 2005.12.13 14:22:00 -
[53]
Edited by: fisty on 13/12/2005 14:22:28
oops
ciao |
Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.12.13 14:42:00 -
[54]
Banning alts from posting on this forum would be like arresting every muslim you can get your hands on, because 'they are all terrorists anyway'.
It's a solution that's way over the top with a cost we shouldn't be willing to pay. There are more reasons to post with an alt than just to start flames.
Besides, it gives the mods something to do...
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.12.13 14:46:00 -
[55]
Do you have any idea how crap this forum would be without alts? I mean, hell, the only reason i read this forum is because its usually full of alt-tastic hilarity!
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
Yuzier OA
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Posted - 2005.12.13 15:08:00 -
[56]
If you have a problem with the forums, dont read them..this is a 100% certified alt speaking
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shambley
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Posted - 2005.12.13 15:20:00 -
[57]
Rather than ban alts why not change it so that all chars on account are listed
It would make for some interesting reading looking back at past threads and seeing who was the main on all the alt thread flamage and if there are some embarresed faces then ho hum
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Crass Spektakel
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Posted - 2005.12.13 15:27:00 -
[58]
Most of the alts problems on this board is caused by moderators.. so why allow them to post? Ban all moderators! 
Crass Spektakel
life is short and in most cases it ends with death
but my tombstone will carry the hiscore
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Zhuge Liang
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Posted - 2005.12.13 15:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sun Ra
Wont fix it, then they'll just make alt corps, i have 4 of my own
Exactly. ^
Stopping NPC corps from posting does not solve the problem, it only hurts players that have done nothing wrong, and as Sun Ra notably points out, such a system can be circumvented easily.
Very good ideas guys but least we forget that alts can be useful on the forums too. Some are used just to safely and anonymously put forward your personal point of view without tarnishing your corp/alliance/faction or causing any discord with your allies.
Some are used by non-rp'ers to RP happily on the summit forums without getting laughed at by their non-rp corpmates. Some are used by people wanting to ask how much thier t2 bpo is worth without getting 100 offers ingame or random war decs.
Alts on the forum are needed and everyone has used them and has use for them. The problem is when alts go bad.
It's not a good idea to stop npc starter corps from posting here because not all members in npc corps post here to troll/flame. I admit the majority of problems on this forum are from flame alts in npc corps but thats no reason to deny other npc corp players the right to post or state thier opinion on player corporation politics.
As Abdalion pointed earlier, if you ignore the flamebait and report it, the Alt wont get the satisfaction of getting under your skin. If all factions could just ignore alt threads and posts and report them (with clear reasons why you believe they've broken a forum rule) then that would help immensely. Posting "IBTL" or flaming back is likely to get you into just as much trouble as the alt.
This is a very positive and welcomed thread, as long as it doesn't turn to a discussion of moderation or a "ban ban ban them" thread then we'll continue to read it and pick up ideas from it.
Thank you.
ò Want to be a Forum moderator? |
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Abdalion
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Posted - 2005.12.13 17:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Val Duane
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Or you could just actually deal with the content of the post, and completely ignore the name of the person who posted it. It's what gets said that's important; not who says it.
Its when the content is blatent flamebait that is the problem. Saying that though....if the person asking a question or making a statement was someone we could recognise as a member of a specific corp or alliance, then I would have less of a problem with it.
It just seems crazy to say to people..."Stop replying to Alts who are flamebaiting!" while not looking for a solution to stop the alts from flamebaiting in the first place! Hence the reason for my opening post.
Mr. Duane,
There are rules in place, and we mods enforce them. If someone consistently posts flamebait with an alt, they get remembered. And they get dealt with.
If you think really hard, I suspect that you can think up no less than 10 troll-alts from just the past few months off the top of your head that you haven't seen posting in a while. Don't ask, we can't tell you who they are
Now to speak generally to your reply to Mr. Ngarr's point, when the address [email protected] is mailed (its broke right now unfortunately) with a direct link to a thread that obviously breaks the rules, it should get looked at sooner and hopefully dealt with. To go even further, it often happens that halfway decent discussion comes out of an alt troll post, and sometimes the original post, while flameish, is left alone because of the resulting positive discussion. When that discussion ceases, that is sometimes when "this thread has run its course" messages appear with a friendly lock.
I personally hate to take out a thread wholesale when someone is attempting to fix what they view as slanderous comments some alt made that tons of people have already read. We have all seem some wonderfully eloquent rebuttal statements. Seriously, I believe people have a right to defend themselves, as long as they are respectful and remain within the rules.
We mods do alot that isn't seen by most unless you are hitting refresh constantly. ( [23]anyone? ) Other times, we mods are busy with RL or mining veldspar or ganking noobs. But when an email comes in (did I mention that it isn't working right now unfortunately?) the buzzer goes off and if we are at the keyboard, and we can go handle it instead of finding a post on our regular forum rounds.
I have probably said too much on this issue, but trust me, all of us mods feel your pain.
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