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What is the technical reason that player outposts cannot be taken down?

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Ironlenny Tetragorn SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.07.20 06:36:00 - [1] - Quote Subject says it all. Why can't player outposts be taken down like POS's? Intuitively that should be the case. Could someone in the know fill me in as to why?
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3696	Posted - 2013.07.20 07:37:00 - [2] - Quote "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 229	Posted - 2013.07.20 09:02:00 - [3] - Quote Rubyporto Eve's biggest bear. My stuff will get popped, cry cry cry.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 229	Posted - 2013.07.20 09:06:00 - [4] - Quote Destructible outposts would be fantastic, no idea why CCP has not made this a thing and actually made some purpose to station flicking beyond preventing people accessing it while you can be arsed defending it. Being able to destroy out posts would bring about some beyond epic null wars.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 229	Posted - 2013.07.20 09:07:00 - [5] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. It gets popped or loot spawns into containers.
Sabre Rolf Republic University Minmatar Republic 59	Posted - 2013.07.20 09:53:00 - [6] - Quote it-¦s obviously meant to keep T2 BPO-¦s emporiums (like mine) alive. I mean if I couldn`t build on these shiny Amarrian outposts in Delve with this nice PE boost, I-¦d have to produce in High-sec like a avg. pubbie! this can not stand. Also posting so brewlar can`t quadpost
Jayka Kyer M1N 4	Posted - 2013.07.20 11:02:00 - [7] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. I don't see why loot wouldn't be able to move to the the closest null sec npc station on destruction
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 229	Posted - 2013.07.20 13:36:00 - [8] - Quote Jayka Kyer wrote: RubyPorto wrote: "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. I don't see why loot wouldn't be able to move to the the closest null sec npc station on destruction What? Because Eve is supposed to be a SciFi MMO not a fantasy magic one. All though it does continue to slide down the WOW crack grind path with no accountability of late.
Silivar Karkun Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada 88	Posted - 2013.07.20 17:49:00 - [9] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: RubyPorto wrote: "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. It gets popped or loot spawns into containers. freighter class containers muahahahaah... puts monocle it would give some interest in having more than 1 station, of course, the game should be tweaked so players can have more than 1 outpost in a system. or encourage to have more colonized systems. just keep the invulnerability thing and the reinforced mode.
Ironlenny Tetragorn SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.07.20 18:26:00 - [10] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: RubyPorto wrote: "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. It gets popped or loot spawns into containers. That's what I was thinking. If someone is concerned about their stuff getting destroyed or looted, don't store it in an outpost.
Jayka Kyer M1N 4	Posted - 2013.07.20 18:41:00 - [11] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Jayka Kyer wrote: RubyPorto wrote: "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. I don't see why loot wouldn't be able to move to the the closest null sec npc station on destruction What? Because Eve is supposed to be a SciFi MMO not a fantasy magic one. All though it does continue to slide down the WOW crack grind path with no accountability of late. its preferable to having a station in every god dam null sec system, ccp seem to view things that are docked as safe so its the only way; station goes and people still have their stuff.
Ironlenny Tetragorn SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.07.20 18:45:00 - [12] - Quote Jayka Kyer wrote: Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Jayka Kyer wrote: RubyPorto wrote: "What do you do with the uncountable billions of ISK worth of stuff in it, most of which is owned by unsubbed accounts?" Seems to be one of the primary issues. I don't see why loot wouldn't be able to move to the the closest null sec npc station on destruction What? Because Eve is supposed to be a SciFi MMO not a fantasy magic one. All though it does continue to slide down the WOW crack grind path with no accountability of late. its preferable to having a station in every god dam null sec system, ccp seem to view things that are docked as safe so its the only way; station goes and people still have their stuff. I thinks Brewlar's issue is the magical teleporting of stuff to npc stations. If it's a player outpost, it's contents should drop using the same mechanics for any player object that gets destroyed.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 3696	Posted - 2013.07.20 20:27:00 - [13] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: It gets popped or loot spawns into containers. That is one of the proposals to answer the question. Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Rubyporto Eve's biggest bear. My stuff will get popped, cry cry cry. You seem to have a problem with reading things into my posts that aren't there. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon
Tauranon Weeesearch 206	Posted - 2013.07.21 05:20:00 - [14] - Quote I thought they were unable to be removed except during downtime (just as they must pass through a downtime when anchoring), and like apparently anything loosely associated with the anchor skill they were fairly hacked implementations. ie CCP would have to write a lot more code than just the blowing it up code. I presume the downtime limitation is because its a dockable entity, and those things may not have a "server online" implementation, just as there probably isnt an insert a new system implementation whilst the server is online.
Aliventi Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 249	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:41:00 - [15] - Quote CCP has stated that destroying a station is fairly easy for them to do. The issue is, as other posted, what to do with the stuff inside. Do you move it to an NPC station, spew cans, or outright destroy everything inside? What if I want to deny an enemy access to assets? Do I have the option to allow NPC freighters move their items to an NPC station and ransom it? Can I choose to set the cost so high it would be impossible for them to pay and therefore their assets vanish after 2 weeks when the contract expires? Can I seize their assets and sell them myself? Find a solution where both sides are winners and we can destroy stations. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me
Oxide Ammar Equilibrium Tech Labs 11	Posted - 2013.07.21 07:35:00 - [16] - Quote So much for risk vs. reward...
DB Jones Justin's Beavers 0	Posted - 2013.07.21 12:28:00 - [17] - Quote n+îwhy are both sides supposed to be winners? Why should you win by being incapable of looking out for you and yours? CCP preaches risk/reward and team work, so there is absolutely no reason why a station should be lost without loss... You put your **** there then be prepared to lose it. Furthermore it is sort of ridiculous that you keep your assets even when your statio. Is taken over, where is the sense in that? Would any of you let your enemies, conquered that it, keep their materials? I sure wouldn't. As it is now there is no risk, just reward.
DB Jones Justin's Beavers 0	Posted - 2013.07.21 12:37:00 - [18] - Quote Oh and when we consider how much isk people have and how much they make an hour there's even less reason why losing a station, in any way, shouldn't mean loss of assets. It does so in a POS so why not in an outpost. It is called an outpost after all.
Unu Inkunen Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 23	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:24:00 - [19] - Quote problem is that noone will bring their 5 titan bpos into 0.0. CCP wants the pilots to leave highsec and go to null but if you have no sort of secure place there for your highly expensive assets, people might say no.. and do the research in highsec.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H. 331	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:09:00 - [20] - Quote 0.0 station pi+¦atas would be a great addition. Really, if you play in 0.0, it's fair for CCP to expect you to have the foresight to move your stuff to the nearest low-sec station.
Silivar Karkun Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada 90	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:34:00 - [21] - Quote simple, same mechanic as with spaceships, partial loot, its not supposed to be fair. you loose your ship, you loose everything, but you gain a refund for it. just make them destructable, with partial loot, the loot would be dropped in giant freight containers, the station could make use of the insure system, the basic would be well, the total cost in minerals of the station or just the original cost of the egg. the rest could be paid up to platinum. so those who loose their trillions there at least can pay for another station or buy the stuff they lost.
Parris Colidi Imperial Navy Research 5	Posted - 2013.07.22 10:15:00 - [22] - Quote Wot he said ^^
Termy Rockling EVE University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2013.07.22 15:16:00 - [23] - Quote What would happen to the people docked in the stations when they go pop, especially those ones who arent currently playing ?
Krax As Little Willies 32	Posted - 2013.07.22 15:27:00 - [24] - Quote solution to the loot if outpost / statin gets destroyed: new cans. let-¦s call em fireboxes. way too small to store much besides personal items personal items = implants and blueprints, everything small basically those cans get deploeyed when station is destroyed. everyone can pick them up, BUT only the owner can actually open it (password) so you not only need to destroy the stations, but also either - infiltrate , steal, hack whatever to get the password - ransom the owner - trade it without the buyer (and the guy who picked it up) knowing whats really in it. or... to take it to a whole new level: make them hackable . and the owner has the chance, if online and willing, to counterhack.
Krax As Little Willies 32	Posted - 2013.07.22 15:28:00 - [25] - Quote Termy Rockling wrote: What would happen to the people docked in the stations when they go pop, especially those ones who arent currently playing ? those who are docked = podded and floating in space with their pods. (using the pods as escape pods...duh) those not online.. well they missed the pods ... hello clone, and how did i get here ?? !!
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris 2044	Posted - 2013.07.22 15:34:00 - [26] - Quote The main reason is players stuff being lost. If players stuff could be lost this way they would be much less likely do keep their stuff in null sec, instead opting for low or high sec. As players tend to play where their stuff is the result would be fewer people in null sec. Adding an insensitive for players to leave null sec for high sec is not desirable. Having their stuff magically move to an npc station also seems odd. I guess you could say a null station can install a one-time wormhole generator. It is powered by a station explosion and transports the stuff to another station. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Victoria Sin Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 383	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:12:00 - [27] - Quote Well, your stuff is effectively "lost" in any case, unless you re-take the station.
Grandma Squirel Squirel Enterprises 37	Posted - 2013.07.23 22:33:00 - [28] - Quote Whether or not 0.0 station destruction is desirable, changes at this point need to be very carefully considered. Changing the rules after someone has relied on a mechanic and are now unsubscribed, and doing so in such a way as to impose a potentially enormous loss on them, needs to be handled extremely carefully. It would be like converting all T2 BPOs into low run BPCs, and saying risk reward justified it. Now I happen to like the idea of stations being destructible, but I also want to treat those who relied on the old mechanic fairly. To start with, all new outposts from a certain point on could be made destructible. Anyone docking in them would be on notice that they could be destroyed, fair game. Stopping there would also eliminate the oft stated fear that a mega alliance could just go through blapping every station over multiple regions in a scorched earth campaign, which could be very bad for null, all the old stations would still be there as a back stop. If you really wanted to make existing stations destructible, I see 3 ways that would be at least marginally fair to those with assets still there. 1 - Move to nearest non-sov station, basically a windfall for those effected, as its better then the status quo, also doesn't make any sense from a in game perspective. 2 - Station wreck, can undock but not dock, same rules as if the owner didn't like you, and then it would act like a permanent personal hangar array, would be a PITA, but you could travel out and recover stuff. 3 - Station wreck, can undock but not dock, must be repaired (at a cost of materials, 10-50% cost of a new outpost) if you want an outpost in the system. Items/ships are still there, become accessible again on repair.
Elisa Carta Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:29:00 - [29] - Quote Unu Inkunen wrote: problem is that noone will bring their 5 titan bpos into 0.0. CCP wants the pilots to leave highsec and go to null but if you have no sort of secure place there for your highly expensive assets, people might say no.. and do the research in highsec. You should be active, and get your stuff out before the station blows up. +CCP should make it so that it needs certain timers before it should be eligible to blow up. Almost everyone in null should have at least a carrier, how many beaten alliances strike a 'temp blue' deal with the reds to evacuate stuff, it's so terribly easy to get your stuff out of the station and jump it to a NPC station. *unless you're rapecaged, that happened only a few times in the last 10y. Even then, a covert nullified T3 is enough to get all those shiney blueprints out. The problem is with CCP being afraid that all those inactive ppl with their stuff in the stations emoquitting so losing on sub money from them.

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