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worst rattlesnake build ever decision

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Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.07.20 23:25:00 - [1] - Quote i dont have the skills to test this stuff out but im still trying to learn so sorry for probably the worst rattlesnake fit youve ever seen. This is for small gang work, or maybe even solo at some point if i can swing it in which case id drop something for a scrambler. The idea being to MJD within range of the webs. MWD would be used prior to MJD so that the jump lands me at the appropriate distance(1224km/s overheated MWD 13s agility). Then use webs stay within range of them. Neutralizers burn out their scrambler, AB/mwd, shield tanks, smartbombs or whatever else their using. Once their scram is burned out i can turn MWD back on to facilitate staying within range Webs make ogres effective. I know rattlesnake has cruise/torp bonuses but this is a brawler rattler and DPS on torps/cruise is terrible vs small targets. Which necessitates webs close range combat. And even then torps still suck for damage application. Im trying to decide whats more important. bumping my dps from 793 to 933 (140dps increase) + 49.8 cap/s neutralizing [Rattlesnake, rattlesnake tank] Signal Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Large Micro Jump Drive 100MN Microwarpdrive II Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Ogre II x5 Garde II x5 or staying with 813dps + 123.5 cap/s neutralizing [Rattlesnake, rattlesnake tank] Signal Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Large Micro Jump Drive 100MN Microwarpdrive II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Proton Smartbomb II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Core Defense Field Extender II Ogre II x5 Garde II x5 this one also comes with a smartbomb for any drone problems that might come up(ECM). Im leaning towards pure neutralizer since that will help me get to safety if i get pointed in bad situation. It will burn out an opponents AB/MWD faster for easier controlling of their speed. And if their running resistence buffs/shield boosters it will make them die about as fast as with the RLM version. Also to burn out their scram so i can use my MWD ok thats all.....be gentle :)
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.07.21 00:27:00 - [2] - Quote with 2x webs cruise do like 100dps to tengu and 40dps to frigate moving at high speeds. RLM does 140 to both and since im going to be in brawling range on account of the webs they seem like good choice of course you said neuted out so you might not have been going at high speeds. How many neuts and how long did it take him to neut you out? Because Im going for really fast kill. With webs the ogres are doing the full 800dps applied to frigs. And with RLM that bumps to 940 applied to frigs but with less neut capability
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.07.21 04:33:00 - [3] - Quote Ive tried a similar setup with navy dominix. Drones + neuts or drones + hybrids + neuts and generally the dom has less slightly less ehp with smaller spare powergrid so i have to downgrade a neut. But otherwise identical. Then theres the potato vs scorpion aesthetic consideration which leaned me towards rattler.
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.07.21 12:45:00 - [4] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: The MJD might work the first or second time... but it won't work again once people realize what you're doing. Then they'll just get a bunch of scram frigates, pin you, and gnaw you down (which will be easy as you have no buffer). fake edit: also... seconding Cruise Missiles. They won't be as effective as Rapid Light Launchers against smaller targets, but they'll still apply okay damage and be able to deal non-laughable damage against larger targets. im pretty new to game but how often are you hitting the same target? Thought it was pretty random so that the same targets arent hitting hit by the MJD. Besides that the MJD only works as a surprise since it puts me at exactly 100km i need to start the jump at the right distance How long does it take to neut out a frig/tengu target doing lets say 50 cap nuet per sec vs say 123 cap/sec
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.07.21 12:46:00 - [5] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Well the domi has double the DPS. how does domi have double the dps? Same drone dps and the weapon systems are pretty close too
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:42:00 - [6] - Quote Ive been thinking about running no warp scrambler since neuts will eat their cap below warp capability would that work? At work using phone so will check those fits applied dps in eft tonight. In my very limited experience 1800 type bs tend to drop to nothing applied vs frig/tengu....which might be ok. Maybe those melt to 2x web 800dps from drones and then whats needed is bs killing dps.
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:44:00 - [7] - Quote Oh and i was reading that bhaalgorn replaced navy dom. When i messed around in eft i wasnt impressed. Which probably meams i fit it wrong or missed the big picture any newb tips so i can see the bhaal for the monster it is?
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:55:00 - [8] - Quote I get that advice frequently. No worries though, i have 7m sp some of which is in mining so i wont be blowing up any rattlers with my fail fits/tactics. I have plenty of time to theory my way to semi competency though. I thought u needed 80% total cap to warp? In either case i read u loud and clear. Low cap = warp short distance but still get away Why cant u neut out someones scrambler? I read people recomending just that for carriers. Neut out the point warp away? Whats wrong with my understanding of dps application for a bs? Im using eft. Putting targets vector perpendicular to mine which is about as bad as its going to get. Eft takes into account all the tracking, signature size, vector/speed stuff. What am i missing?
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:17:00 - [9] - Quote I wont be jumping into bs before ive earned my frig strip So i understand that i cant neut out someones scrambler so i can use my mwd if the point is only thing he want to use. And i do want to point out im talking about neut the scramble so i can use the mwd not mjd. Does that make a difference? Can i neut his point for one sec allowing me to cycle and once the cycle starts it finishes even with a point on me? Or does the point end the cycle midway? Also Most ships have 1minute of cap available before they run out using all their mods. Then they have to turn some off to be able to uae....lets say half. If im also neuting him it would stand to reason even fewer modules would be running if im neuting him right? One of the mods he doesnt turn on could be scramble, or his neut. Especially if hes running cap usage weapons. Somethings gotta give no? Have i said anything about my understanding of applied dps that would need fine tuning? Or is it my lack of finer details of neuting and general newbness lead to that opinion? Because theory is all i have for now and i want to make the most of it so when i start flying frigs i can move to my real goal with post haste. No matter what im going to need that theory knowledge to make best use of the bs and avoid bs losses anyways. Ive read about plenty of frig pilots who fly, lose frigs and learn little because of how fast the frigs die. And from other games ive played i value theory first and practical experience second only to finetune the theory. This isnt a twitch reflex game where the opposite would be true. I know initially my brain will be in shellshock during pvp with muddled decision making but with the theory core in place ill be able to push thru that relatively quickly.
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:59:00 - [10] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: You didnt say anything bad, I think you just lack experience and SP which would make these questions obsolete. Regarding your question: yes, if you neut someone he will cap out faster :) I personally think that frigs arent the best ships to start pvping in becuase of how much your fitting and SP contribute to the victory, I would rather start in simple destroyers linke Thrashers (AC fit). Im down with destroyer what makes it better to learn in rather than frig which i hear recomended to newbs more often? If i cap them out what can i expect to happen to their modules because usually im told i wont be able to force them to stop scrambling, neuting or even shooting their cap weapons.

Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:31:00 - [11] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: Start smaller, you're just going to leave embarrassing killmails Haha ok. Read topic, be more useful tsukino
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 20:19:00 - [12] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: I am being useful, stop dreaming up carrier and pirate BS fits and start working on things you can actually fly. Once you reach the limits of your current ship portfolio and start realising the shortcomings, THEN you will look to other hulls to fill in where you feel you fall short and you will be better at it because you actually understand the game then. There's only so much forum rambling can teach you, some things you just have to learn for yourself and a MWD/MJD rattle being a terrible idea is one thing you can predict to be awful once you get a little more real experience. Im perfectly happy with my 2 mos of forum rambling. Ive got good idea of all the modules, ships since i been eft warrioring. Ive made documents of my own detailing what each does which helped me wrap my brain around the vast volume that exist. I have rough idea of how each ship functions even if i dont have the perfect vet approved fit saved ready to show off my epeen. I made an excel sheet of what each weapons capable of using all the ammo types against varying ship speeds/sigs/ vectors. I been reading non stop forum about modules/tactics. I know im eft/forum warrioring and i know the limitations. My retrievers mining keeping me plexed, skillbooked, attribute implanted and building the bankroll(8bill liquid not bad for a true blue newb that had to peice the game together himself without an eve vet friend coaching and feeding me isk or an alt of a vet) Im positioning myself well for the pvp i want. What i dont need is some epeen vet telling me to stop flying my dream ships as if i have them in the hanger and im twitching to press the undock button. But its ok because along with everything else ive learned is how to squeeze the lemonade out of eve foruns lemon vets which means stepping all over morons like urself that probably only have half the info im looking for. So step aside and let the real vets teach this newb how the game works
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 21:12:00 - [13] - Quote So they would have a hard time catching frigs and hard time breaking the tank of large ships? Which destroyer do u recommend?
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 21:30:00 - [14] - Quote How do i look up ur losses. And would u be willing to post ur thrasher fit? Did u use ogb? Also can u check out my question about how neuts vs mods work when player caps out since i keep being told cap using modules wouldnt be neuted out.
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 22:43:00 - [15] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: Usually you can do that by stalking someone on eve-kill.net, unfortunately it seems currently offline. All active modules in eve need cap to be activated (except most weapon systems and nosferatus), so if you neut someone to the point where he has no cap he wont be able to activate any modules. Unfortunately cap regenerates fairly quickly andd the modules you are really worried about need just a small amount of cap to be activated (Sensor damps, tracking disruptors, scramblers, webs, etc. etc.). Usually you wont be able to neut those mods off at all, or they will return just a second later. Neuts are very strong against active tanked ships and for shutting down prop mods though, if you are able to sustain the neut pressure for some time and not cap out yoursef. Heavy neut cycle time = 24s x3 neuts staggered so one goes off every 8sec Med neut cycle time = 10 sec x 2 so one goes of every 5 sec Would it be effective to ha e neuts going off like so.... Heavy Neut #1 2sec 3sec 4sec Med neut #1 6sec 7sec Heavy neut #2 9sec Med neut #2 11sec 12sec 13 14 Med neut #1 Heavy neut #3 17 18 19 Med neut #2 21 22 23 Heavy neut #1 Repeat all Or is it better to just cycle then all 1 sec apart? Med #1 med #2 heavy 1 Heavy 2 Heavy 3 Would that give u 5 sec of no shooting every 24sec cycle? Or would the weapons shoot in between those seconds? That would disable enemy shooting for 21% of the fight. If im not mistaken small neuts have a 5s cycle? So 5x small neuts could cycle indefinitely every 1s shutting down all modules that use cap. So it probably doesnt work like that but a guy can dream. Also what happens to a bank of weapons all grouped together. Do they wait until theres enough cap for all of them or go off individually if needed?
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 23:01:00 - [16] - Quote Baali Tekitsu wrote: And thats the difference between theory and practice: go and try actually doing it! If you have your guns grouped and arent able to fire the whole group none will fire. Smart pilots degroup their guns in these situations. I could go and try it. Fit a ship. Fly around looking for a fight. Lose isk from lost ship and for not mining. Or i can ask. Get an answer and move on to my next question. This was much faster. And since i have lots of scenarios/questions time/isk matter. Getting an answer on here just as valuable as testing in game. Ur answer confirms what i thought about the grouping thing. Un grouping takes a sec? Now hes doing more micromanaging. That might be helpful or not. What about stacking neuts every 1 sec does that work to lock weapons down for 5 sec? Or forever if using 5s cycle small neuts?
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.21 23:02:00 - [17] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: whatever, i tried. Baali tried. U just ***** and moan. As if i would stop learning because u want me in a frig learning at 1/3 the speed i am here
Ciyrine Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:34:00 - [18] - Quote Haha another ur npt ready response. Little do u realize this is just warmup fitting for my dread ship i plan to camp jita with and win eve. U lost eve 2 mos ago when i started playing u just dont realize it yet. Now whered i park that dread. I always forget where i parked

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