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Vishnej	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:47:00 - [61] They can, they just have a higher initial investment. I expect it to payoff faster for most small corps, because A) small towers no longer count for sovereignty, reducing irrelevent mining of lows, and B) the T2 comp market just grew tremendously. This keeps the growth from busting another market to negative margins as everyone makes a rush on towers. ---------------------------- T2 Destroyers: a proposal Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:48:00 - [62] I mean you do realize, POS running isnt the most profitable job around, unless you work our ass off and have multiple POS's Which is now impossible for anythng but a mega corp.
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:48:00 - [63] Originally by: Rawne Karrde Information is power. I take it you did't care enough to log into sisi even once to test did you or you would have seen the change. Next time, maybe there is some insentive to stay informed rather than just be a sheep following the masses. Its not like eveyrone didn't have the same chance to read that information or see it for themselves. Knowledge for the win. I read the forums, regularly. And I saw no post saying oh btw when you log in after patch there will be 0 control towers on the market.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Vishnej They can, they just have a higher initial investment. I expect it to payoff faster for most small corps, because A) small towers no longer count for sovereignty, reducing irrelevent mining of lows, and B) the T2 comp market just grew tremendously. This keeps the growth from busting another market to negative margins as everyone makes a rush on towers. Small pos count, they are simply overridden by larger towers.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:50:00 - [65] Originally by: Vishnej They can, they just have a higher initial investment. I expect it to payoff faster for most small corps, because A) small towers no longer count for sovereignty, reducing irrelevent mining of lows, and B) the T2 comp market just grew tremendously. This keeps the growth from busting another market to negative margins as everyone makes a rush on towers. On the contrary, it will not pay off faster. Currently, the profit is already so meager that you'd earn more running NPC trade routes in the time one spends hauling the fuel. The T2 comp market will get bigger, but at the same time, the cost of entering the business is now 4 times higher. Small corps will not be able to afford this. Maybe one POS, but certainly not 5. - Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:50:00 - [66] Theres plenty on market, but they tripled the prices.
Granthian	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:53:00 - [67] Although this would be close to insider trading, I more so consider it great business foresight. How many people follow the stock market so closely to know when to buy or sell? This is no different, imo, than wall street or any savvy business proposition. And since it was knowledge available to anyone that searched for it (why does everone expect everything handed to them), I say bravo to those that took a chance and purchased. As to the issue of smaller corps, well, real life example would be Walmart vs. corner store or even Pilot Gas vs. Uncle Bills station. It happens everywhere but small corps need to find a niche and stick to it then grow, or die. Up to you Do you know HIM?
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:56:00 - [68] People should not have to search, that is what patch notes are for. Second of all, Thats not even the big problem, do you people read? Not only did people just make a ridiculus amount of money, It also killed any smaller corps chance of getting into t2 comp market.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.12.16 13:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Gunsnroses Originally by: Vishnej They can, they just have a higher initial investment. I expect it to payoff faster for most small corps, because A) small towers no longer count for sovereignty, reducing irrelevent mining of lows, and B) the T2 comp market just grew tremendously. This keeps the growth from busting another market to negative margins as everyone makes a rush on towers. Small pos count, they are simply overridden by larger towers. Meaning they don't count at all, as far as 0.0 alliances are concerned. Originally by: Gunsnroses I mean you do realize, POS running isnt the most profitable job around, unless you work our ass off and have multiple POS's Which is now impossible for anythng but a mega corp. I've worked my ass off running multiple POSes for months now - POSes I don't have to defend because noone bothers to attack them. And the demand, at least, is ramping way up over the next month or two. This gives the market demand somewhere to sink the money other than bidding up T2 BPOs to insane levels, as they have so far. Shikari - If the market corrects itself again with low-barrier-to-entry rush towards everyone owning a tower, as it did with Cold War (I got in because of your advertising, btw - if only anything could make 50m/day now), it might just mean the difference in margin between a smaller corp without a ton of moonscanning budget paying off their huge initial investment over the course of a month or two with their profits, and a small corp not making any profits at all. ---------------------------- T2 Destroyers: a proposal Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:01:00 - [70] IMO, no, someone should not gain a competitive business edge for reading the forums or patchnotes. But that's how Eve is setup. You see the invuln field change coming? Well, buy that invuln field BPO before anyone else knows about it, then appreciate billions. There's nothing unfair about it - it's business. ---------------------------- T2 Destroyers: a proposal Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth
Rawne Karrde	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:03:00 - [71] Well my extra towers have already been purchased. And if its so hard to read a dev blog while your freighter is trekking through empire space.. well then i did work for it and it wasn't an I win button. Sour grapes I guess.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:21:00 - [72] All you who decry these tower price hikes and the people who took advantage of them should look at the situation positively: Now, instead of buying towers off market for 300, you can buy them cheaper from the folks who stockpiled. One way or another, towers were going to increase in value. POS are way too deadly to be that cost-effective; when you consider that you literally need Dreads to take a well set up POS head to head, Dreads that cost 2 bil ISK mind you, it seems a little ridiculous to spend hours pounding on something that'll only cost your enemy 100m ISK to replace.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:22:00 - [73] Edited by: Gunsnroses on 16/12/2005 14:24:48 Well the money people make off this will go to good use. Considering this could potentially make t2 item cost more. Heat sinks at 3million isk anyone? Well thats to be seen, and i doubt it will drive prices up all that much in the long run. Rich people making isk with no work period, and the poorer corps being barred from entering the POS business. Again the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. There already is no longer a middle class in the real world, must we lose it in eve as well?
Feta Solamnia	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:32:00 - [74] weeeel, if these were the prices from the beggining,then it would be much better. People think more when they have to pay a lot than run a lot (tbh, it should be other way around). Having uber-expensive POS (which even with the current prices is not the case) will make you think twice before entering the POS game just for the t2 materials. Carefull planning would be in order and we wouldn't see this silly insta-gank of the entire comp market by all those people pouring into it. We approximate this situation with RMR but with the given amount of POS already in the game, it's not that simple. I'm so happy I'm not into this stuff any more Originally by: Oveur I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:32:00 - [75] The rich get richer because they possess advantages of foresight and intelligence over the poor, who simply don't know how to manage their money and make it work for them. Just like in the real world, and just how it should be imho.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:35:00 - [76] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The rich get richer because they possess advantages of foresight and intelligence over the poor, who simply don't know how to manage their money and make it work for them. Just like in the real world, and just how it should be imho. But getting rich off a patch of a game is crap tbh... It's almost like duping ISK IMO... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:38:00 - [77] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The rich get richer because they possess advantages of foresight and intelligence over the poor, who simply don't know how to manage their money and make it work for them. Just like in the real world, and just how it should be imho. But getting rich off a patch of a game is crap tbh... It's almost like duping ISK IMO... Bingo. If there was a story in game, RP wise saying blah blah blah control towers going to cost more then fine. But alot of people arnt forum **s, and these changes wernt listed in the patch notes. It was an unfair advantage for the forums **s. Me ofcourse being one of those beings with no life, sitting on forums all day, and i knew about the change, but didnt not take advantage for a few reasons. As for not being expensive, i think you fail to understand exactly how many POS's are run, and how many are needed to supply the now hugely expanded tech 2 comp market. With out these POS, Dont be suprised if you start paying 3-4 Times your current t2 gear prices.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The rich get richer because they possess advantages of foresight and intelligence over the poor, who simply don't know how to manage their money and make it work for them. Just like in the real world, and just how it should be imho. You can compare this to realife, and this would be considered insider trading, which bammmmmmm you go to prison. Shall we send your character to prison now? no? mmkay. enough with the real life comparsions. This is a Space GAME, not WallStreet.
Melkor Bloodaxe	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:46:00 - [79] Have something that others want (oil, gold, POS-structures, whatever...) ask a lot of money for it and get rich. Information or a lucky feeling: buy something cheap which you know/feel gets very expensive. That's what money making is about. Fun, however: be poor, steal from the rich and buy equipment, steal more from the rich, buy better equipment, etc. get killed and start over...
DarkStar251	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:49:00 - [80] Increasing large towers from 90m to 350m may also make the component markets profitable again. I would bet there are some people considering taking down their large towers now and selling them, less people making components and a higher barrier to entry mean a much healthier market (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
PenguinJim	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:51:00 - [81] I knew about this change, and did not buy the tower because personally i did not want alot of my isk caught up for months on slow selling items.. However regardless of the money making possibilities of the change, the change itself is complete bull****. It destroyes the small corps ability to make isk with small and medium towers, and the tech 2 industry... It already costs "pre-RMR" around 200mil to set-up a med pos and the items required to keep it functioning. Thats not including the weekly fuel. I see the sense in large tower increasing in price but the small and medium tower are the life blood and EXTRA content thats is supposed to be for small and medium corps. This change was made to stop the pos wars going on, and was an ALLIANCE thing and nothing to do with many corps. So there is ANOTHER change in EVE that is designed to stop alliances doing something they were never intended in the normal course of game play under ccp's vision to be doing.. Instead the change just kills small and medium corp use of POS without an initial outlay of hundreds of millions, without the possibility of reaping the rewards that such and investment should warrant. I 100% argree with dark shakari and his and say a new POS module need to be implemented thats needs to be deployed in ADDITION to the POS Tower to gain conrol of a system. THIS module should be the bloody expensive thing, and not the towers themselves!!!!!
Melkor Bloodaxe	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:54:00 - [82] Originally by: Gunsnroses You can compare this to realife, and this would be considered insider trading, which bammmmmmm you go to prison. Shall we send your character to prison now? no? mmkay. enough with the real life comparsions. This is a Space GAME, not WallStreet. Uhm, info from a forum is NOT insider trading, as a forum is quite public (at least this forum is) so no prison for that character.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:55:00 - [83] Originally by: PenguinJim I knew about this change, and did not buy the tower because personally i did not want alot of my isk caught up for months on slow selling items.. However regardless of the money making possibilities of the change, the change itself is complete bull****. It destroyes the small corps ability to make isk with small and medium towers, and the tech 2 industry... It already costs "pre-RMR" around 200mil to set-up a med pos and the items required to keep it functioning. Thats not including the weekly fuel. I see the sense in large tower increasing in price but the small and medium tower are the life blood and EXTRA content thats is supposed to be for small and medium corps. This change was made to stop the pos wars going on, and was an ALLIANCE thing and nothing to do with many corps. So there is ANOTHER change in EVE that is designed to stop alliances doing something they were never intended in the normal course of game play under ccp's vision to be doing.. Instead the change just kills small and medium corp use of POS without an initial outlay of hundreds of millions, without the possibility of reaping the rewards that such and investment should warrant. I 100% argree with dark shakari and his and say a new POS module need to be implemented thats needs to be deployed in ADDITION to the POS Tower to gain conrol of a system. THIS module should be the bloody expensive thing, and not the towers themselves!!!!! Its nice to seem at least some people are looking after the little guy.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.16 15:06:00 - [84] I noticed people qare just ignoring my post and the many people saying the same thing. You're misguided if you think this is a get rich quick thing. There's nothing quick about it.
A'de N'ahten	Posted - 2005.12.16 15:14:00 - [85] Edited by: A''de N''ahten on 16/12/2005 15:15:43 Originally by: Bhaal But getting rich off a patch of a game is crap tbh... It's almost like duping ISK IMO... Quoted for truth.... great business foresight my arse.... what, just nip off to a parallel universe and stock up on goodies. It's a BS way to make ISK. Oh and before you say 'sour grapes' I knew about it and didn't do it - it's just like putting in a god mode cheat or buying ISK.... you are getting your wealth or profits from outside the 'single shard' game world. edited: spelling
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.16 15:17:00 - [86] Originally by: A'de N'ahten Originally by: Bhaal But getting rich off a patch of a game is crap tbh... It's almost like duping ISK IMO... Quoted for truth.... great business foresight my arse.... what, just nip off to a paralell universe and stock up on goodies. It's a BS way to make ISK. Outside the game world? The forum is directly tied to the game world through operation and fiction. Oh and before you say 'sour grapes' I knew about it and didn't do it - it's just like putting in a god mode cheat or buying ISK.... you are getting your wealth or profits from outside the 'single shard'game world.
Cker Heel	Posted - 2005.12.16 15:18:00 - [87] This is win-win situation. No one (including the poor small corps making a meager living) will have to pay full NPC price for months, probably not until after Kali. This price relief is available to everyone even though forums and Sisi prices were ignored or they didn't have time to check, or handy isk to buy them now. Those who did do the market research and gambled on tying up ISK in towers, now can start earning some isk for that work. Those who could not do so, do not have to suffer the full price shock.
A'de N'ahten	Posted - 2005.12.16 15:23:00 - [88] Edited by: A''de N''ahten on 16/12/2005 15:26:47 Edited by: A''de N''ahten on 16/12/2005 15:24:33 Originally by: Nyphur The forum is directly tied to the game world through operation and fiction. The forums are there for communication and facilitating trade and all that other jazz - thats fine. Do people use the WTB/WTS forums for stuff on the test server? How is the test server tied into the eve universe in the 'fiction' and back story? edited : sorry lousy spelling and an additional point
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.12.16 15:26:00 - [89] Originally by: DarkStar251 Increasing large towers from 90m to 350m may also make the component markets profitable again. I would bet there are some people considering taking down their large towers now and selling them, less people making components and a higher barrier to entry mean a much healthier market Actually, since the only way towers exit the market is through them being killed, this will put more large towers into active operation, as people liquidate their old towers profitably so that someone else who can make money off them, puts them into operation. ---------------------------- T2 Destroyers: a proposal Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.16 15:32:00 - [90] Originally by: A'de N'ahten Originally by: Nyphur The forum is directly tied to the game world through operation and fiction. The forums are there for communication and facilitating trade and all that other jazz - thats fine. But the items you purchased were not actually on tranquility... eve is a single shard game.... thats the world. Do people use the WTS forums for stuff on the test server? The items I purchased weren't on tranquility? How come? They sure as ass were on tranquility when I bought them and they still are. I took a huge risk buying those things. I ploughed 800mil into them without knowing for sure if oveur's post was a real indication of the prices being increased. I still don't know for sure if the test server had the updated prices, can anyone confirm this for me? In fact, it shouldn't have updated prices because it didn't have a market database change. I went entirely off a post on the forums which said something along the lines of "I'm thinking of increasing the price of control towers" and it paid off. In retrospect, I'm going to be penniless for months while they sell and the market clears out of the hundreds of other control towers. If I could reverse the decision, I might think about it. I guess I don't have much time to play but I could sure as hell make more profit doing other things.

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