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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.12.17 03:43:00 -
[1]
wow this sucks, I hit assembly line not knowing what that meant exactly and now my BPO is stuck for 27 days pending and I cannot get it out. It was much easier to use the older interface too bad no warning pops up that doing this means your BPO is sucked away.
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Flavia Clio
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Posted - 2005.12.17 05:28:00 -
[2]
This is huge nerf. IÆm pretty sure CCP didnÆt intend this to be but it is. IÆve worked as a manufacturing manager for many years and I can tell you this bites.
I equate this to the releasing the missile changes of the last update and not telling anybody.
One of the major goals of manufacturing or assembly line work like BPO research is just on time delivery. You only use what you need and manufacture what you can sell. This will keep as much capitol free to work for you. When you pay 20 mill for a BPO and drop it into research for 28 days then your investment of 20mill is tied up for almost a month not working for you. In the old trickle out system you could pluck you BPO and put it to work making back your investment.
The same thing applies in manufacturing. You have an investment of minerals and BPO or BPC. If youÆre not allowed to trickle out your manufacturing then you eat doo-doo on the entire investment until the whole batch is complete. A bulk of 200 Battle ships spit at once after a month of waiting is not useful to the savvy marketer. It's too much resources tied up in manufacturing time and minerals.
Smaller manufacturing and research batches and better planning would help.
This was not an option since there was no reason to expect such a drastic change. The concept and strategy of managing BPOs and minerals will be completely different to be competitive.
I have a BPO for a new module locked in research for 12 days. I petitioned to have it removed. I canÆt say the results of the petition because of TOS.
My goal when I purchased this BPO was to research it over night and pluck it and manufacture some copies and produce some product for early introduction to the market. Most people that buy off the market in Eve understand there is a critical window of opportunity for quick investment return with new introduced products.
This strategy is sound under the old ôtrickle out systemö. ItÆs would also be feasible under the new system if there was even a miniscule hint of a drastic change to this system.
I think it is reasonable to either stop all jobs in progress and let the owners have an opportunity to start over and manage their factories and Labs how they intend. Another reasonable solution is to allow GMs to remove BPOÆs for a limited time so players that choose this career path in Eve are not severely hindered.
The new system of factory slot and Lab slot payments Helps the large manufacturers that have been in game forever and hurts the small and middle sized manufacturing business.
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.12.17 05:33:00 -
[3]
well the worst part is my BPO is stuck pending doing nothing for 27 days and then it ejects with the ME of 2. I see all these slots tied up for 80+ days. in the station I used to see so many empty labslots.
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Ginger Magician
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Posted - 2005.12.17 09:37:00 -
[4]
Yes unfortunately everyone has made the same mistake as there was no warning abou this as well as the hopeless inept process of renting a lab slot.
There is no way that this change has been tested with experienced manufacturers.It really is a disgrace.
"Ginger Magician is just infamous. I've met more people ingame that have talked about him, than anyone else in Eve." |
Saerid
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Posted - 2005.12.17 09:41:00 -
[5]
Join the party. With the way we're running jobs in bulk 24/7, of course we went and did the same thing. Got a bunch of T2 prints stuck until early March next year.. or whenever they see fit to put in a cancel jobs button.
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Mannakin
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Posted - 2005.12.17 09:44:00 -
[6]
Yep, this blows major.
Got 880k m3 of minerals sitting waiting for a BPO thats now stuck in a queue
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Patch86
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Posted - 2005.12.17 11:53:00 -
[7]
And do you know what's really p****ing me off? The fact that in this, as in every other complaint, suggestion and query about the RMR changes, we havn't heard a single peep out of a developer yet. I mean, I know you guys are busy implementing the patch, but just a little feedback? Let us know if this is an intentional nerf or a***** up? Tell us if there's something we're missing? ANYTHING?!
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Neslo
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Posted - 2005.12.17 18:31:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Neslo on 17/12/2005 18:31:40
Well this is pretty a pretty crappy system... but it's really not fair to say there wasn't any warning.
This is unfortunately this is by DESIGN.... It's just too bad they didn't incorporate any major industrial corporations into the planning of the new system.
We did only get 7 days warning before the patch though:
 Originally by: Mephysto
Things to bear in mind: It is deliberate that you cannot cancel a job
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Prince Maximus
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Posted - 2005.12.17 19:41:00 -
[9]
I have a MOROS BP in Time Efficiency Research (going to PE1) showing as pending, even with all the slots showing as free!!!!
Time to completion is just over 80 days!
Is this 80 days after it changes from Pending?
How do you find out how long it will be pending?
Why no Cancel option or an option to move to another slot?
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Niaski Zalani
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:07:00 -
[10]
I have about a month until my t2 damage mods come out of the hanger.. and by that time the price will probably have dropped considerably due to the recent stacking changes.
*sigh*
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Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:15:00 -
[11]
Everyone just keep petitioning, thats what i would do, there needs to be a way to cancel pending jobs if not active ones, certainly the lack of warning - or the fact that the factory screen does not update (that IS a bug and should be grounds for removal)
luckly i was only hit for 3 days wait.
But i agree with the changes - they were made so that the load on the servers would be much less (rather than before when the servers had to check every factory, every second to see if another item was to spit out, now it just queues the table when you put it in, when you view the slots and when you ask for delivery.
It was this bottleneck that stopped POS factories and hopefully later Ship Based Factories.
But WTF was there no cancel button? this doesn't fit in with server optimisations. A warning would be nice
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Duke Montresor
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Posted - 2005.12.17 22:29:00 -
[12]
I'm sorry, I just started the game and i've been seeing this everywhere and I have no idea what it means. What is BPO?? thanks
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GeekWarrior
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Posted - 2005.12.17 23:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Duke Montresor
I'm sorry, I just started the game and i've been seeing this everywhere and I have no idea what it means. What is BPO?? thanks
BPO = Blueprint Original (infinite runs)
as opposed to
BPC = Blueprint Copy (limted runs)
-----------------------------
EVE Addict |
Skek
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Posted - 2005.12.18 01:03:00 -
[14]
The new system doesn't seem too bad to me, you just have to watch what you're doing when you're setting up your runs. if you're stuck pending behind something and there's slots free, it's because you selected a slot that was already busy, instead of a free one when you set up your run. To me, this means everyone gets a ***** at the proverbial manufacturing/research whip at the busy station and is a big improvement. It essentially gets rid of the slot hoarders and makes the labs/factories available to all.
The only thing i would agree with is we do need a cancel button. There's nothing worse than putting your freighter bpo in for a 9 week PE run only to find you get an order for one 5 mins later.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2005.12.18 06:05:00 -
[15]
An option to cancel a job would lead to pilots hugging all slots with a BPO just to have one available if they should need one - and to keep competition out of whole constellations easily if they got the financial resources at hand.
The inability of some people to read and interpret the info given in the various steps works quite well with the very low amount on information on what info is given where and how to do things.
It is a pitty that we cannot link T1, T2 and component production together.
Instead of starting a T1 and component production, followed by T2 assembly as before, we now have to do one by one, waiting for all the parts to drop out until we can start a T2 run will certainly not help with the availablility of some of the more needed T2 products.
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gubble flob
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Posted - 2005.12.18 06:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Skek
The new system doesn't seem too bad to me, you just have to watch what you're doing when you're setting up your runs. if you're stuck pending behind something and there's slots free, it's because you selected a slot that was already busy, instead of a free one when you set up your run. To me, this means everyone gets a ***** at the proverbial manufacturing/research whip at the busy station and is a big improvement. It essentially gets rid of the slot hoarders and makes the labs/factories available to all.
The only thing i would agree with is we do need a cancel button. There's nothing worse than putting your freighter bpo in for a 9 week PE run only to find you get an order for one 5 mins later.
Your wrong, there is something worse - putting your 25b tech 2 bpo in for about 24 hours worth of runs, to find out as you were entering the info is, somebody else used the slot you were about to use with 100 days worth of building. Your 25b T2 bpo is now stuck on pending, building nothing, for 100 days.
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Effei Gloom
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Posted - 2005.12.18 11:15:00 -
[17]
i got the info that i cannot install a bpo copying longer then 30 days, thx for that ccp, so i did only 22 days
CEO of EXEC.
- Outpost managment - |
BlackMatrix
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Posted - 2005.12.18 11:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Effei Gloom
i got the info that i cannot install a bpo copying longer then 30 days, thx for that ccp, so i did only 22 days
Yep i got that aswell .... you don't get it for ME and PE research though
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Rogue Meercat
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Posted - 2005.12.18 11:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tachy
The inability of some people to read and interpret the info given in the various steps works quite well with the very low amount on information on what info is given where and how to do things.
Ahhh but no where in the setup of the job, or in the quote it gives you before going ahead is it mentioned how long it will take. I purchased a BPO today and set it to do some ME, not realizing how long it would take and not seeing the information on the quote screen I went ahead and set it in motion. It is now 23 days until I can use that BPO since I can not cancel the job....
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Ishida
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Posted - 2005.12.18 14:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Flavia Clio
This is huge nerf. IÆm pretty sure CCP didnÆt intend this to be but it is. IÆve worked as a manufacturing manager for many years and I can tell you this bites.
I equate this to the releasing the missile changes of the last update and not telling anybody.
One of the major goals of manufacturing or assembly line work like BPO research is just on time delivery. You only use what you need and manufacture what you can sell. This will keep as much capitol free to work for you. When you pay 20 mill for a BPO and drop it into research for 28 days then your investment of 20mill is tied up for almost a month not working for you. In the old trickle out system you could pluck you BPO and put it to work making back your investment.
The same thing applies in manufacturing. You have an investment of minerals and BPO or BPC. If youÆre not allowed to trickle out your manufacturing then you eat doo-doo on the entire investment until the whole batch is complete. A bulk of 200 Battle ships spit at once after a month of waiting is not useful to the savvy marketer. It's too much resources tied up in manufacturing time and minerals.
Smaller manufacturing and research batches and better planning would help.
This was not an option since there was no reason to expect such a drastic change. The concept and strategy of managing BPOs and minerals will be completely different to be competitive.
I have a BPO for a new module locked in research for 12 days. I petitioned to have it removed. I canÆt say the results of the petition because of TOS.
My goal when I purchased this BPO was to research it over night and pluck it and manufacture some copies and produce some product for early introduction to the market. Most people that buy off the market in Eve understand there is a critical window of opportunity for quick investment return with new introduced products.
This strategy is sound under the old ôtrickle out systemö. ItÆs would also be feasible under the new system if there was even a miniscule hint of a drastic change to this system.
I think it is reasonable to either stop all jobs in progress and let the owners have an opportunity to start over and manage their factories and Labs how they intend. Another reasonable solution is to allow GMs to remove BPOÆs for a limited time so players that choose this career path in Eve are not severely hindered.
The new system of factory slot and Lab slot payments Helps the large manufacturers that have been in game forever and hurts the small and middle sized manufacturing business.
i have been saying this for the past 3 months, since an hour after the devblog arrived.
i disagree on the fact that it does not hurt large producers cause it does.
setting up 10+ hac prints for maximum runs ties up more then 2bill in capital. if u miss, it also ties up the bpos for weeks.
there is nothing just in time about this whole RMR nexgen concept, something i have been trying to tell ppl for a while now...
i think it's very nice that ccp wants to implement all these new feats for us, but this is boring. we need that cancel button and fast. and if we dont get it, at least make the GMs button work ffs.
i'm very disgruntled and it prolly shows, i cant help it. this is not the way things should have turned out. if changes are done to the pvp part of eve, 10000 ppl giving comments and devs listen.
now they changed the complete manufacturing process and who did they ask ? not us, not you, and actually none of the producers we ever talked to (and that's alot of ppl).
the devblog mentioned tank ceo, DC and some others, but these guys are pvp gurus ffs, not manufacturers ...
this patch, in it's current state, doesnt make me wanna log in. in fact, only reason i'm logged in now is to start tieing up loose ends...
--
NAGAMAZON webshop
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Gunsnroses
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Posted - 2005.12.18 15:04:00 -
[21]
Guys, i installed 5 bpos last night for prouduction, wake up today, and they are not done, rather confused i am. I start looking around, and it hits me. They are being done in serial. One bpo is being built, then another, then another, then another.
They are not running at the same time.
now WTF is that? I've got the way 13 hours for 10 ballistic controls?
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Quaird
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Posted - 2005.12.18 20:53:00 -
[22]
The thing is having a queue with a cancel button will still give the performance improvements that CCP was looking for.
Assuming all slots are full: When a job finishes _or is cancelled_ the computer then picks the oldest job in the queue that is still available. This job is then installed and started. This is, in the worst case, the original quoted time when the job was entered. If someone has cancelled one or more jobs in the meantime then the job will be started and finished earlier than quoted when it was entered (which is only better for the manufacturer than the originally accepted time).
Assuming not all slots are filled: This means cancelling a job that is already started. In that case the interface can calculate how many items have been built, deliver those and charge some isk for the partially built item and possibly eat some of the materials for the last item. The original method of 50% material returned is reasonable.
See there is no technical reason due to lag not to do this. Minor change but massive increase in usability.
An option for the factory to send an EVE mail when a job finishes would be nice as well. That way you don't need to periodically check every factory to see if they have finished or not...
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Jalia Kovac
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Posted - 2005.12.18 21:44:00 -
[23]
Something needs to be done. A cancel feature is an absolute imperative at the very least. Not at all happy with not being able to manually end jobs in the queue.
► ► Placid Reborn Headquarters ◄ ◄ |
Skek
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Posted - 2005.12.18 22:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Effei Gloom
i got the info that i cannot install a bpo copying longer then 30 days, thx for that ccp, so i did only 22 days
you can install for longer if a 1 run will take longer than 30 days. For example if you put your freighter bpo in to cook on pe... you're looking at over 9-12 weeks for 1 run.
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Skek
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Posted - 2005.12.18 22:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: gubble flob
Originally by: Skek
The new system doesn't seem too bad to me, you just have to watch what you're doing when you're setting up your runs. if you're stuck pending behind something and there's slots free, it's because you selected a slot that was already busy, instead of a free one when you set up your run. To me, this means everyone gets a ***** at the proverbial manufacturing/research whip at the busy station and is a big improvement. It essentially gets rid of the slot hoarders and makes the labs/factories available to all.
The only thing i would agree with is we do need a cancel button. There's nothing worse than putting your freighter bpo in for a 9 week PE run only to find you get an order for one 5 mins later.
Your wrong, there is something worse - putting your 25b tech 2 bpo in for about 24 hours worth of runs, to find out as you were entering the info is, somebody else used the slot you were about to use with 100 days worth of building. Your 25b T2 bpo is now stuck on pending, building nothing, for 100 days.
yep that would blow goats :(. on the other hand... if you're building the same t2 stuff as us... woohoo 
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Skek
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Posted - 2005.12.18 22:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rogue Meercat
Originally by: Tachy
The inability of some people to read and interpret the info given in the various steps works quite well with the very low amount on information on what info is given where and how to do things.
Ahhh but no where in the setup of the job, or in the quote it gives you before going ahead is it mentioned how long it will take. I purchased a BPO today and set it to do some ME, not realizing how long it would take and not seeing the information on the quote screen I went ahead and set it in motion. It is now 23 days until I can use that BPO since I can not cancel the job....
If you do a show info on your bpo prior to setting up the job it will tell you how long each run will take. The maths is easy after that.
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Prince Maximus
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Posted - 2005.12.19 19:03:00 -
[27]
Got a reply from the Eve team 
Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. Due to an error in the game code, it is currently impossible to cancel lab and factory jobs. The developers know about the problem and are working on a fix for it. We hope to have this resolved as soon as possible and in the meantime we can only ask for your patience.
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Jalia Kovac
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Posted - 2005.12.20 04:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Prince Maximus
Got a reply from the Eve team
Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. Due to an error in the game code, it is currently impossible to cancel lab and factory jobs. The developers know about the problem and are working on a fix for it. We hope to have this resolved as soon as possible and in the meantime we can only ask for your patience.
Thank god!
► ► Placid Reborn Headquarters ◄ ◄ |
Neslo
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Posted - 2005.12.20 06:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Prince Maximus
Got a reply from the Eve team
Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. Due to an error in the game code, it is currently impossible to cancel lab and factory jobs. The developers know about the problem and are working on a fix for it. We hope to have this resolved as soon as possible and in the meantime we can only ask for your patience.
Next new reality clip reel show on Fox... Features gone wild!
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Ulle
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Posted - 2005.12.20 09:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Prince Maximus
Got a reply from the Eve team
Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. Due to an error in the game code, it is currently impossible to cancel lab and factory jobs. The developers know about the problem and are working on a fix for it. We hope to have this resolved as soon as possible and in the meantime we can only ask for your patience.
So it wasn't deliberate as it was said in a sticky thread ... good to know. Hopefully they will also add a way to check the job status before cancelling, so we don't stop it few minutes before it completes a long run. The best would be, in addition to the immediate cancel 'panic' button, an option to end the job when the current run completes by reducing the job duration to the run time left.
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