| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.07.29 21:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you want people to keep using the Vagabond as a skirmisher, why don't you give it another falloff bonus to help it in that role? We actually can't keep flying the old vaga, because the old vaga used the old TEs. With your new vaga we'll still have to use barrage for everything, ignoring projectile weapons advantage of picking damage types. We'll still be doing **** poor damage at point range because we don't have the pg to fit 425s(or arties, like that one crazy guy here wants). We'll still be flying the knife edge against cruisers that do 2ks or better and faction cruisers going 3ks. I'd much rather be doing that with more damage from a falloff bonus while they haven't caught me than with more tank when they do.
Embrace specialization for the Vagabond. Give it another role bonus designed to make it a better skirmisher. Don't give it a bonus that takes advantage of one module , two fits, and which can be heavily abused by links. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.07.31 11:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:The Vaga is getting buffed at nearly everything and people are complaining about how worthless it is now; I remain confused.
The shield boosting bonus isn't a bad bonus, but it doesn't fit with the way most Vagas get flown. Another falloff bonus would allow a Vaga pilot to take advantage of selectable damage ammo at point range. Right now you have to load barrage. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Fewell wrote:
The shield boosting bonus isn't a bad bonus, but it doesn't fit with the way most Vagas get flown. Another falloff bonus would allow a Vaga pilot to take advantage of selectable damage ammo at point range. Right now you have to load barrage.
Sooo... Loading long range ammo to be able to do damage at the longest unbonused point range is a bad thing? I want my Thorax to do 300 dps at 25km with Antimatter then.
The Thorax isn't a HAC getting a new bonus now. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:
While fitting issue here is obvious there's a role for that ship as well. Vagabond is going to be more or less close range brawler while Muninn will remain as a sniping platform. Cynabal is combination of those two since there are no other Angel ships of that class. I think it is fair enough.
Personally, I haven't really been seeing these "roles" that CCP and everybody keeps going on about. Active shield tank bonus already defines ship as a brawler and not a sniper. Then what does the falloff bonus define?
It defines one of two falloff bonuses you'd want if you wanted this ship to be a skirmisher. You have to load barrage to do any damage at point range in a Vaga, and then you're only doing about 200 dps while giving up the selectable damage which is the main plus of projectile weapons. Considering most other cruisers have been buffed in speed, as well as damage projection which can exceed that of the Vaga, your engagement profile isn't very large. It's frigates. Vagabonds kill frigates. Rise talks about how often they're used and how much damage they put out in pvp daily, can he tell us on what hull size this damage lands? It's frigates. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Devon Weeks wrote:I don't really fly Vagas, but the above fit seems like it's trying to be too much. If it's kiting, why neut? Why booster? Go straight buffer. You're supposed to be range/speed tanking a lot anyway, right? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I've never trained this ship. I'm just going off my understanding of other ships.
You fit a medium neut because frigs can catch you, and if you're caught for long you're dead. If the utility high were switched to a mid you wouldn't have much more choice in mids than you do now because you'd be sticking a web in there, though that would at least free up a good chunk of pg. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:I'm Down wrote:I love how people's understanding of the Vaga is:
If it can't fit an XL ASB, then **** it.
Player level competence trying to fit a BS sized mod on every cruiser class ship.... You know what, why not let it fit a 100mn AB too, and for that matter, get an agility boost when using it. But larges are MEH! XLASB or nothing  The main issue I have is that the standard buffer fit, with two LSEs, can hardly fit 425s, compared to the CYNABAL which can fit 425s, full tank, a medium neut, and still have PG left over. So yea. I understand it would be more arms race between the two but honestly I think its just leveling the playing field rather than making the Vaga better and the Cynabal again useless. I just want to have a reason to fly the Vaga  Oh My Boobs wrote:-1 low +1 med for the vagabond
-1 low +1 med for the muninn
DONE I do agree the Muninn needs another mid, but the Vaga needs another mid while keeping the low. Without that low the Vaga will be further gimped on the DPS that it is already weak on.
larges are pretty good with tengu links, implants and blue pills. This is what we'll be seeing a lot of.
I'd be so much happier with a less easily abused bonus like another falloff bonus. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:[
Double falloff bonus is actually what I suggested initially along with a raw DPS buff of around 50 DPS, I would even be happy to lose 1-2K EHP after LSEs applied to keep things well balanced.
I think the falloff doesn't need more dps, because it will allow for faction ammo instead of just barrage. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.08.04 01:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Harvey James wrote:MeBiatch wrote:if you upped the falloff on the vega to 12.5% per level that would fix the "range" issues people are having with the ship.
so that would end up being an extra 62.5% increase to falloff crs 50% that we see now. its not much but it should make the difference. The main issue with the vaga is that you can't even fit 425's which costs it 9km range and some dps ok so how much pg is it short on?
It's got no PG. It'd be fairly dangerous to give it the pg to fit 425's with the shield boost bonus. If you want the ship to kill things that aren't frigates, but not kill all the things, replace the shield boosting bonus with another falloff bonus. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 21:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:
bought too many vagas and you cant sell them or what?
btw it seems the vaga can fit 425mm + mwd + shield tank pretty well , so where is the problem?
The problem is that people won't be happy until the ship can out brawl, out tank, and out kite all of it's competition.
some people want to fit 425s on top of that shield bonus. Some people would rather that easily abusable with links/blue pill and implant bonus be switched for another falloff bonus so the ship doesn't have to run from most things that aren't frigates. |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:baltec1 wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:
Please go fit 2 LSEs an MWD and 720s on a Vaga and tell me how that goes.
God forbid you have to chose between firepower or tank. They want both, 70K EHP 800dps at 40km with autocanons 7500m/s with 100mn AB and and a extra slot/fittings for Xl'asb but theirs will get an extra bonus, will use no cap nor charges and reps 150% per cycle when heat -heat dmg 0% 
Straw men are fun. The sensible people still speaking about the Vaga don't want more than a switching of the shield boosting bonus for another fall off bonus so we can use ammo that isn't barrage at point range on the 220s we can can currently fit.
Now let me try. You want one of the fastest cruisers in the game to get super silly when you undock it with your HG crystals, blue pill and your loki and tengu links so you and your buddies can dump over everything you come across or GTFO as needed.
Was that as accurate a representation of your views as your representation was of those who still want work on the Vaga? |
Fewell
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.08.12 11:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
RanmaruMori wrote:Eagle is bad in all. Others are dumb, case they don't see all. Go in another topic and just compare Vulture and Eagle. Vulture have same range, better tank, better damage, more utility slots, 5 drones, 2 links (if you want) vs slightly less mobility.
Why must i choose eagle instead of vulture?
Cerberus have range and speed, when Nighthawk have damage and tank. This is balance. Vulture and Eagle are same. Eagle must be changed in any cases.
I've barely even looked at the Eagle so I can't say it doesn't suck, but I think you want a better argument than that a cruiser hull doesn't perform as well as a battlecruiser hull, except in speed. |
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