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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 23 post(s)
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3203	Posted - 2013.07.29 14:06:00 - [1] - Quote Much better, but there's a typo in the OP- Ishtar has one slot less than the others. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3203	Posted - 2013.07.29 14:46:00 - [2] - Quote Heribeck Weathers wrote: Roime wrote: Much better, but there's a typo in the OP- Ishtar has one slot less than the others. Trolling.....?? its a drone boat, they always have 1 less for having drone utility. As for the Vaga OP people, I hope your Tornado Alphaed into oblivion, gods know it would only take one and maybe a friend. Drone utility? What's that? Do you mean giving up all your dps to get the same utility as all other ships? Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3204	Posted - 2013.07.29 15:13:00 - [3] - Quote Hannott Thanos wrote: Roime wrote: Heribeck Weathers wrote: Roime wrote: Much better, but there's a typo in the OP- Ishtar has one slot less than the others. Trolling.....?? its a drone boat, they always have 1 less for having drone utility. As for the Vaga OP people, I hope your Tornado Alphaed into oblivion, gods know it would only take one and maybe a friend. Drone utility? What's that? Do you mean giving up all your dps to get the same utility as all other ships? Because 500 dps without using a single pg or cpu are so not worth giving up a slot for.... Destroyble, easily avoidable dps. It has less grid and CPU than all others, meaning that even with empty highs it can't fit any more tank than the others after turrets/launchers. Not to mention that having only drones as dps works only in sov blobs and PVE. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3207	Posted - 2013.07.30 07:22:00 - [4] - Quote It's unfortunate that Gallente can't have a viable dualprop AHAC (no tank, no nos, useless bonuses) anymore, there is a gaping hole in the lineup for cheaper alternative to a Proteus. As a shield rail kiter the Deimos looks decent, seems to outclass null Talos in many aspects- it's just very disappointing that the traditional blaster brawler meta has been abandoned by the devs. And again: drones and especially their UI really, really need to be looked at if you continue to make drone-only ships. Just like armor tanking 2.0. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3208	Posted - 2013.07.30 09:37:00 - [5] - Quote Dani Lizardov wrote: Hello again Thank you CCP Rise, that you have reconsider your changes to the HAC class. 1-st post was looking so promising ... THEN FAIL!!! Thank you for wasting my time. You can fly your new HAC your self... I personally will not Pay 150+ mil isk for ship: Slower then or equal to T1 Less DMG then or equal to T1 Sure I am happy, that falcons will have hard time jamming it ! Example: Deimos: Nice you changed it to a shield ship, however it only takes one Nado to and one shot. Thank you :) Also the lack of tracking bonus mean that the TORAX t1 variant will project its dps much better!! And we all know Torax has the same dps as the T2 ship... nice! So tell me why should i buy 1x 150 mil Deimos instead of taking 5x Torax (30mil with the t2 fit ) ? Deimos has more tank, can fit 250mm rails = more dps and range, better cap and sensors in a fit that is as fast as a Thorax. Arty Nado needs two perfect shots to pop a Deimos, unfortunately it does about 0 dps against a moving Deimos inside point range. The suggested shield rail Deimos is not a bad ship, it's like the ubiquitous Talos, just nastier in every aspect, tears will ensue. For blasters there are better ships. EDIT: will fly [Deimos, Pocket Talos] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 10MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I Medium Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Warrior II x5 Warrior SW-300 x5 603 turret dps @ 22+32, 0.03514 tracking 2239/3191 m/s 20.3K EHP (37.4K heated against Null) needs a Geno set, like all Gal ships Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3208	Posted - 2013.07.30 09:48:00 - [6] - Quote Deimos seems to project better than Thorax and Talos against small targets, and equal to Talos against big targets at long point range. I'm not arguing EFT graphs until I get to test the new Deimos with new rails, on paper it does look good. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3209	Posted - 2013.07.31 06:15:00 - [7] - Quote DeadDuck wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Show the fit, remember no deadspace, faction, or officer mods. [Deimos, New Setup 1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Hammerhead II x5 Enjoy Nice one! You can get away with a small cap booster, swap rigs to T2 Burst and ACR and upgrade guns to Ions. T2 plate will fit, and if you opt for a RAH instead of second EANM, you can drop the explo hardener for a second magstab. Not much less EHP against Barrage, and more against other damage types. That's surprisingly viable, I've based my fits on 800mm plates which is quite a bit thinner in tank, but the 1600 looks rock solid for logi gangs and is a faster alternative to a Proteus. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3209	Posted - 2013.07.31 06:26:00 - [8] - Quote Yeah, I'd drop the second EANM for a mag like said. Not sure if RAH stacks with links, does it? Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3223	Posted - 2013.08.03 08:40:00 - [9] - Quote Was it really a must to drop the utility highs from the Ishtar? Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3227	Posted - 2013.08.04 23:22:00 - [10] - Quote Shereza wrote: Roime wrote: Was it really a must to drop the utility highs from the Ishtar? Um, the ishtar gained 2 utility high slots. High slot + no applicable weapon bonus for any hardpoints = utility slot, and the ishtar has no turret bonuses in this latest suggestion. Even if you didn't look at it that way the ishtar is only losing one high slot which means only one utility slot lost; you're not being forced to fit a fourth gun into the new fourth turret hardpoint. Let me put it this way: In order to fit the same utility as in the current version, you have to give up about 100 dps compared to the old version. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3227	Posted - 2013.08.05 07:25:00 - [11] - Quote Quinn Corvez wrote: Should any specialised ship have a utility slot? ...I think all their slots should be dedicated to the HACs role. HACs role = kill **** and survive, on TQ you need utility highs to achieve this, unless you fly in sov blobs- in which case nothing really matters, just bring more. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3227	Posted - 2013.08.05 10:36:00 - [12] - Quote Tuxedo Catfish wrote: Mei Khlolov wrote: The current proposed Deimos changes are as close to perfect as they're gonna get. I get frustrated with my fellow gallente pilots as they want every goddamn ship to brawl. How many brawlers does a race need? If you've just gotta change the deimos more, please don't hurt its kiting ability. It looks awesome as it is now (including MWD bonus!) It's not a question of how many. It's a question of having a brawler that can actually catch things -- unlike the Brutix and its t2 variants. The only ship that really fits that description is the shield Thorax -- the Talos can catch things, but it's a kiter -- but it desperately lacks hit points, a problem going t2 usually solves. How do all the ships slower than Brutix catch things? You know it's barely slower than the Cane and Cyclone. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3227	Posted - 2013.08.05 11:24:00 - [13] - Quote Not sure if the choice between blasters and ACs is that straightforward. If you intend to fight in web range, blasters are better in tracking and dps, ACs pull ahead beyond 10km. Damage type vs ammo switching time is toss (highly situational), which leaves ACs with range and lolcap advantage. Comparing Ions and 425mms. I do agree with you about other things, tho. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3227	Posted - 2013.08.05 11:49:00 - [14] - Quote Sigras wrote: Roime wrote: Not sure if the choice between blasters and ACs is that straightforward. If you intend to fight in web range, blasters are better in tracking and dps, ACs pull ahead beyond 10km. Damage type vs ammo switching time is toss (highly situational), which leaves ACs with range and lolcap advantage. Comparing Ions and 425mms. I do agree with you about other things, tho. How is the cap advantage in any way a joke? I think you misunderstand, the advantage is not that ACs save you SO much cap that you can now run a tank or something, the advantage is that ACs still fire when you're neuted to 0 and blasters turn off. If ACs used .01 cap per activation, the advantage would be lolz because nobody cares about the small amount of cap the medium blasters use; its the fact that they need you to have cap to use, and ACs currently dont. I don't find that a crucial advantage on a ship that already does +475 cap immune dps. You capitalize on the AC cap advantage only in situations where you are neuted completely dry, while losing +50dps in other situations, including those where you can keep blastering with properly timed cap injections. I fly my Ishtars active tanked, so the cap booster is a given. I find blasters better in most cases, but ymmv and every fight is different. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3234	Posted - 2013.08.06 12:46:00 - [15] - Quote Sure, it would be cool to get speed and tracking to light and mediums, but then again they don't really need that. Heavies do benefit from both greatly, and limiting sentry bonuses to 7.5% was really necessary for maintaining balance. Ishtar is one of the best ships in game for a multitude of tasks, and yes, even tho I mourn for the loss of some versatility due to slot count nerf and 4 turret HPs, it's going to be just a tad stronger even for my niche solo/micro gang use. And PVE, it evolves from a brilliant serp/guristas PLEXer into easily the best possible serp/guristas plexer. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3241	Posted - 2013.08.06 16:04:00 - [16] - Quote Rep Deimos <3 Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3244	Posted - 2013.08.06 22:43:00 - [17] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: It makes me sad the one of the most desired things for the Deimos was ignored because of lol rail fits. The tracking bonus would be much better than the falloff bonus. Tracking bonus is one of the most powerful bonuses in game, and Rise is quite right in saying that it would simply make Deimos op. Especially on Gallente ships that have the best tracking weapons to begin with, see what the Talos and Domi whines are all about. I also find range bonus more useful for AHAC fleets, blasters have plenty of tracking, more range gives better results. It also has 4 mids. This Deimos version rocks and I can finally undock in one and not feel completely suicidal. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3248	Posted - 2013.08.08 11:53:00 - [18] - Quote Forgive them, minnie pilots are used to fitting the biggest guns, two T2 medium neuts on an all T2 fit without any fitting mods. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3259	Posted - 2013.08.09 14:14:00 - [19] - Quote Why do you think the Deimos tank is "op"? What is the threshold for "op tank"? Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3262	Posted - 2013.08.10 05:49:00 - [20] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: Roime wrote: Why do you think the Deimos tank is "op"? What is the threshold for "op tank"? I have no real threshod, but if a cruiser ship can reach 1 k tank before links or implants something is wrong. Ok, that's why you think the Vaga and Moa are OP as well. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3277	Posted - 2013.08.13 19:29:00 - [21] - Quote Dev Tesla wrote: I for one agree with Jysella Halcyon. I don't see myself wanting to fly a HAC at any point when a BC will do the job I'm looking to do at a fraction the cost. Good for you then. For me, there won't be any substitutes for Deimos and Ishtar, which will both prefect ships for what I do and nothing in their price range really comes even close. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3289	Posted - 2013.08.20 09:29:00 - [22] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: oh i meant sac as it is now on TQ. post patch sac will be way better than it is now and tons better than the deimos since it's actually useful in fleets. You mean because it applies less than half of the damage of a rail Deimos, while being slower and less agile? Sure, it has 7-8K more EHP, but that doesn't really matter when dps is only 200 vs 500 of the rail Deimos. (Target: MWDing Deimos that can kite the Sac forever) Comparing blaster Deimos to HAM Sac looks just way worse for the Sac, applied damage difference is 3/4-fold. Against different targets results will vary, but it does look like a Deimos fleet will blatantly stomp a Sac fleet in both close and long range fits. The much debated MWD role bonus really hurts missiles in this context. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3289	Posted - 2013.08.20 09:57:00 - [23] - Quote HAM Sac with faction HAMS and two BCUs does 495 (heated) on paper yes, of which only 250 [i]in the best case[i/] are applied to a MWDing HAC. A dual prop Deimos can unfortunately dictate the range against a Sac, being the faster ship of the two. Once you factor in the Reactive Armor Hardener, which you can fit on Deimos with two damage mods unlike the Sac, the Deimos has even more EHP against it's weakest resist than Sac has against kin/therm. Not even mentioning an active fit :D Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3289	Posted - 2013.08.20 10:12:00 - [24] - Quote Sac has four mids. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3290	Posted - 2013.08.20 10:30:00 - [25] - Quote No worries, obviously nothing is so black and white and engagements on TQ are a far cry from EFT warrioring. My point was mostly that new Deimos looks very good and is certainly not unusable compared to the Sac, which itself looks great as well. I honestly don't get the whining in this thread, all the new HACs are sweet and only time will truly tell how they fit into doctrines and the meta. I just know that I'll be flying the Deimos like there's no tomorrow, both solo and in gangs 8-) Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3290	Posted - 2013.08.20 13:09:00 - [26] - Quote Idk, pirate ships are an upgrade from navy ships, which are upgrades from T1. T2 is just specialized- I'm betting Gila gets strong bonuses to mobile drones, and Isthar remains the sentry king. Once again, there's the urgent need to fix drones, CCP is intent on turning drone ships into pure drone ships, which is simply subpar strategy in PVP until the drone UI and basic mechanics are fixed. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3293	Posted - 2013.08.21 10:44:00 - [27] - Quote So you lost both fights, and still think it's OP? Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3293	Posted - 2013.08.21 11:14:00 - [28] - Quote I still don't get why "tanking over 1000 dps for a while and then dying" is OP? Obviously those engagement were more than the ship could handle, which sounds pretty balanced tbh. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3293	Posted - 2013.08.22 06:35:00 - [29] - Quote Seolfor wrote: Devon Weeks wrote: Counting over the more than a hundred pages, you'll find there's only a small number of vocal people arguing against the Deimost. Your claim of majority is unfounded. .. We'll see. I said majority are interested in parity for the 8 HACs, not that majority are insisting the Deimos be nerfed. Its your continuing obsession "DO NOT NERF DEIMOS, ITS FINE, NOTHING TO SEE HERE".. Or your obsession stating that it needs to be nerfed, without actually demonstrating the need in any way. Hint: just an NPC corp scrub saying that a ship is "overtuned" doesn't mean it is. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo 3296	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:42:00 - [30] - Quote Urkhan Law wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: No problems or imbalances here, just tradeoffs, you guys need to be a bit more creative and think/see out of your little box. What are the deimos drawbacks? Munnin can become an excelente brawler, so good that I think the 3rd mid can be removed from the deimos, after all is not doing nothing in there right? And the Blaster Eagle can really put some damage, but just for a few seconds until deimos closes in. But that was not really the point of my post and I'm not in the mood to make you a drawing. Wtf, you guys are losing the grip on reality here. Deimos drawbacks? It's is a damn active armor tanked blaster ship without a tracking bonus, with the biggest sig of all HACs. That's four (4) obvious weaknesses most ships can easily exploit. I know you lot are used to this type of ship being a complete, utter and miserably hopeless failure in PVP, since that's how things have been so far, but please just get a grip and don't get your panties twisted when CCP finally gets their stuff together and makes an effort to rebalance a engagement concept that has been massively broken since the dawn of times. The times when all armor tanked blaster ships were free killmails to everyone who could press "keep at range" are over, bring the appropriate counter or just ******* deal with it. Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude.
Roime The Scope Gallente Federation 3332	Posted - 2013.09.06 09:38:00 - [31] - Quote Medium Ancillary Current Router 90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á

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