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LoKesh
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Posted - 2005.12.18 18:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: LoKesh on 18/12/2005 18:26:35
I decided to check out the new cheaper to use invulnerability field and combine it with the Moa. What I got was the Caldari version of the Dura-Maller, with medium guns. This setup is (I guess) a semi-passive tank, as you do use cap to run the hardners. This really make it a mini-Ferox
hi - 4x250mm rails, 1x assault launcher, 1x standard launcher
med - 1x invulnerability field, 1x EM hardner, 2x large shield extender II
lo - 4x Power Diag
this gives me 8001 shields and a peak recharge of almost 40/sec with the following resists -
EM - 68.7, EXP - 76, KIN - 64, THERM - 52 (Caldari cruiser 4)
Everything could, of course, get better with techII PDS
For missile spamming missions/encounters I may swap the launchers for a heavy and a rocket launcher to hold defenders.
note - This setup got me through the new level 3 'Spy Stash' with little trouble.
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LoKesh
Amarr
SH Brotherhood
R i s e
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Posted - 2005.12.18 18:24:00 -
[2]
Edited by: LoKesh on 18/12/2005 18:26:35
I decided to check out the new cheaper to use invulnerability field and combine it with the Moa. What I got was the Caldari version of the Dura-Maller, with medium guns. This setup is (I guess) a semi-passive tank, as you do use cap to run the hardners. This really make it a mini-Ferox
hi - 4x250mm rails, 1x assault launcher, 1x standard launcher
med - 1x invulnerability field, 1x EM hardner, 2x large shield extender II
lo - 4x Power Diag
this gives me 8001 shields and a peak recharge of almost 40/sec with the following resists -
EM - 68.7, EXP - 76, KIN - 64, THERM - 52 (Caldari cruiser 4)
Everything could, of course, get better with techII PDS
For missile spamming missions/encounters I may swap the launchers for a heavy and a rocket launcher to hold defenders.
note - This setup got me through the new level 3 'Spy Stash' with little trouble.
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.12.18 19:13:00 -
[3]
Without a shieldbooster, sounds like your trying to passivetank in which case stick 4x shield relays in the lows instead of PDU
Free bumpage for all |
R31D
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Posted - 2005.12.18 19:13:00 -
[4]
Without a shieldbooster, sounds like your trying to passivetank in which case stick 4x shield relays in the lows instead of PDU
Free bumpage for all |
LoKesh
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Posted - 2005.12.18 22:50:00 -
[5]
I thought about that, but the PDS give you enough power to run real guns, and still increase your shield recharge.
PLUS - it looks like shield relays no nerf total shield capacity (as opposed to shield boosting)
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LoKesh
Amarr
SH Brotherhood
R i s e
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Posted - 2005.12.18 22:50:00 -
[6]
I thought about that, but the PDS give you enough power to run real guns, and still increase your shield recharge.
PLUS - it looks like shield relays no nerf total shield capacity (as opposed to shield boosting)
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.12.18 23:59:00 -
[7]
Shield relay IIs also give a power grid increase, FYI. So you get shield recharge rate and can stack on large guns to boot.
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Veskrashen
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2005.12.18 23:59:00 -
[8]
Shield relay IIs also give a power grid increase, FYI. So you get shield recharge rate and can stack on large guns to boot.
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.12.19 00:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Trelennen on 19/12/2005 00:18:25
 Originally by: Veskrashen
Shield relay IIs also give a power grid increase, FYI. So you get shield recharge rate and can stack on large guns to boot.
shield relay IIs are not in game 
Anyway, 4x shield relays would not be a good idea for this moa. You need a minimum of cap to run your invulnerability field and the hardener, and to fire your guns too, not that much though, so something like 3 PDUs 1 shield relay or 2 PDUs 2 shield relays might be something good (depending on grid needs of course).
When shield relay II will be released, a 1 PDU II 3 Shield Relay II would make that moa a beast with probably enough cap to run everything forever.
PS: to the OP, usualy those setups with no booster at all, even with active hardeners, are called passive shield tanks, semi-passive being those with a strong passive ability and a smaller booster you can run forever (like extenders + hardeners + a medium booster and PDUs on a ferox for example, or extenders + a small booster on a cruiser). Sometimes semi-passive do better than passive, sometimes not  .
Originally by: DarK
The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...
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Trelennen
Disturbed Hoggs
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Posted - 2005.12.19 00:16:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Trelennen on 19/12/2005 00:18:25
Originally by: Veskrashen
Shield relay IIs also give a power grid increase, FYI. So you get shield recharge rate and can stack on large guns to boot.
shield relay IIs are not in game
Anyway, 4x shield relays would not be a good idea for this moa. You need a minimum of cap to run your invulnerability field and the hardener, and to fire your guns too, not that much though, so something like 3 PDUs 1 shield relay or 2 PDUs 2 shield relays might be something good (depending on grid needs of course).
When shield relay II will be released, a 1 PDU II 3 Shield Relay II would make that moa a beast with probably enough cap to run everything forever.
PS: to the OP, usualy those setups with no booster at all, even with active hardeners, are called passive shield tanks, semi-passive being those with a strong passive ability and a smaller booster you can run forever (like extenders + hardeners + a medium booster and PDUs on a ferox for example, or extenders + a small booster on a cruiser). Sometimes semi-passive do better than passive, sometimes not .
=====
!!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!! |
Zakgram
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Posted - 2006.01.11 18:07:00 -
[11]
A passive Ferox (2x invuln ii's, 3xlarge shield extender iis, 5 x launchers, 2 x small rails/lasers) can run 3 x shield relay i's and have cap left over, with a peak recharge of ~120.
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Drigan
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Posted - 2006.01.11 18:23:00 -
[12]
I'm assuming this isn't for PvP?
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.01.11 18:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Zakgram
A passive Ferox (2x invuln ii's, 3xlarge shield extender iis, 5 x launchers, 2 x small rails/lasers) can run 3 x shield relay i's and have cap left over, with a peak recharge of ~120.
I trust you will find the difference lies in the different cap req's of firing 4x250II rails compared to running 5 heavy missle launchers and too a lesser extent in the difference on the overall cap that means 2xM15 braceds are less of a bother for a Ferox than they are for a Moa :)
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Sorja
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Posted - 2006.01.11 22:01:00 -
[14]
With the damage output your ship is going to do, better fit slingshots to it 
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LoKesh
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Posted - 2006.01.11 22:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: LoKesh on 11/01/2006 22:46:25
The current description for shield relays really led me to believe they nerfed total shield capacity - not what I wanted with a passive recharge. I may have been drinking something though, I'll go back and look. I called it semi-passive, because unlike Pottsey's orignal passive tank setups, it requires some cap (to run the invuln. fields)
No, it's not really for PvP - Maybe a damage sink in a frigate gang or something, but not real useful otherwise.
250s with no damage mods does plenty of damage to run level three missions with - if you don't think so, I suggest you train some more. :) (See the not PvP comment)
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.11 23:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zakgram
A passive Ferox (2x invuln ii's, 3xlarge shield extender iis, 5 x launchers, 2 x small rails/lasers) can run 3 x shield relay i's and have cap left over, with a peak recharge of ~120.
If you're using that setup for NPCing, wouldn't it be better to swap the 2 invulns with 2 racial hardeners?
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve...
This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
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Lock out
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Posted - 2006.01.11 23:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: LoKesh
The current description for shield relays really led me to believe they nerfed total shield capacity - not what I wanted with a passive recharge.
Maybe you're thinking of shield flux coils?
Shield power relays improve shield recharge at the expense of capacitor recharge. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.01.12 15:57:00 -
[18]
"I called it semi-passive, because unlike Pottsey's orignal passive tank setups, it requires some cap (to run the invuln. fields)"
I tend to say anything thatĘs around about 20 to 30% cap usage or less is classed as a passive tank. 50% give or take 10% is a Hybrid setup. 60% + is an active.
A small cap usage is perfectly reasonable, as most passive tanks need some cap for a weapons system and other modules.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Toman Torax
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Posted - 2006.03.13 15:37:00 -
[19]
What skills are required for this setup in order to fit in all of the massive power requirements? I'm assuming Engineering Lv 5 and Shield Upgrades Lv 5, of course, to increase total capacity and reduce total needed... but what other skills are needed? Right now I'm coming up with a negative number for my character and powergrid.
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LoKesh
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Posted - 2006.03.14 04:43:00 -
[20]
Engineering 5, Shield Upgrades 4 for fitting. Shield Operation 4 and Shield Management 4 to get that recharge rate. (Which means room for improvement on the fitting and numbers I posted)
Are you considering the power diagnostics in your calculations?
As was suggested, I would play with shield relays if possible - they'll make the setup better.
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Ethanel
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Posted - 2006.03.14 13:28:00 -
[21]
Hey there, i was looking through the ship setup to find a cruiser to do lvl 2 missions ok. I was wondering wich cruiser would be the best : Moa or Caracal ? I'm posting here cause i was wondering if other ppl using Moa and doing killing mission would have another kind of setup ?
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StraWDog
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Posted - 2006.03.14 14:02:00 -
[22]
since i think u dont have much skills i would suggest caracal for missions its the safest cruiser to do missions in if dont have alot of skills u can easily spam hevies from 80k with little skills and with an MWD keep that distance so nothing will really dmg u greatly
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Frobisher
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Posted - 2006.03.14 14:28:00 -
[23]
Yah ... generally for missions you would chose the tanker (Moa) over the ganker (Caracel). But for Level 2 the Caracel will kill most things quickly enough and you can always do what is suggested above by doing the Monty Python Run Away tactic which is very effective for the Caracel.
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Toman Torax
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Posted - 2006.03.14 17:31:00 -
[24]
LoKesh - think I got it all fit, now... thanks for the help.
As for putting in 3 shield relay II's and 1 PDU II, wouldn't that chew through the cap a lot quicker, and probably eventually empty it (where the 4 PDU's keep it going pretty well)?
Gonna have to run that through quickfit, but it seems to me 3 relays and 1 pdu, while giving you better shields, is gonna be a cap devourer.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.03.15 08:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zakgram
A passive Ferox (2x invuln ii's, 3xlarge shield extender iis, 5 x launchers, 2 x small rails/lasers) can run 3 x shield relay i's and have cap left over, with a peak recharge of ~120.
I know this is an old post, but what sort of skills would this require? Best I've seen with 3 shield relays was maybe 80shields/sec, nothing close to 120.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve...
This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran  |
Waenn Ironstaff
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Posted - 2006.05.30 02:19:00 -
[26]
I've actually used the setup posted in the original post (actually a variation depending on my skills) and it works wonders.
High: 4x200mm Scout, Assault Launcher, Standard Launcher
Medium: 10mn AB, Passive Hardner of choice, 2 T1 Large Extenders
Low: 3xPDS, Damage mod.
I obtain 6k shields with some passable resists (can drop the AB for another hardner/invulnerability) and decent recharge rate. The problem using a passive shield tanking is that the shield relays eat the cap recharge so much that the rails drain your cap so fast that you can keep the hardners online for a short amount of time.
Using PDS allow for bigger shield capacity, fitting requirements, recharge rate for both shield and cap.
Now this is a PVE Setup.
For PvP, I still have to figure out a similar setup.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.30 02:35:00 -
[27]
If you want to "passive" tank a Moa for pvp fit 4x250rails 2x assaults,
2xL extender 1xpassive EM 1xInvuln 1xthermal, fitting mods rest mfs.
Needs to be in gang, needs target webbed and scrambled, does ok tank and ok dmg, meh.
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Roy Gordon
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Posted - 2006.10.27 23:15:00 -
[28]
My Moa setup worked quite well-
Highs
4 x 200mm Proto rails with iridium/antimatter
2 x T2 Assault launchers with advanced missiles
Meds
Cap recharger
T2 Medium Shield booster
2 x Invul fields
Lows
2 x PDS
1 x MSM
1 x Dam control
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
The Universe is ruled by three basic principles-
Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
Dol Sadum
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Posted - 2007.01.18 03:12:00 -
[29]
So Moa is definatly not for PvP ?
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LoKesh
Amarr
SH Brotherhood
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.19 02:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dol Sadum
So Moa is definatly not for PvP ?
Wow - I almost forgot about this thread.
The above setup was intended as an Caldari alternative to the 'Dura-Moa' and laid out for NPCs. The lack of PvP equipment in the midslots and a low damage output make it a bad setup for PvP. The tank also isn't that impressive in the face of current damage levels.
In general, can the Moa PvP? Well, it could be a cheap mid-range sniper, or just a solid extra ship in a gang. Truth be told, I'd choose a caracal for Caldari cruiser PvP (or blackbird if you're a sneaky type)
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