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106 days until I'm viable?

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Harley McMacho MD Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.07.31 20:52:00 - [1] - Quote ...well maybe not? Hello - I of course am fairly new to EVE. I am highly interested in being a great Logistics pilot some day. I must premise that I have little to no interest in PvP. Anyway... I saw that there were some recent changes to logistic skill-ing and the addition of logistic focused frigates. I must admit, the idea of flying around in a little heal machine and helping out fellow players sound(ed) like fun... until I realized no one really needed my services. I found that either people could solo their own content at lower levels (mission running) or I became a liability at higher level content (incursions). I asked around in "chat" and was told by several that I need to rush into Logistic Cruisers and skip frigates. I was told that these frigates were more or less "useless" (really?!?!) This of course is my plan (cruisers)... my mid to long term plan that is. My skill plan for those is about 100 days or so. With most games, an investment of time has its reward. I understand however, in most games you can play at what you want to eventually excel at while you are "leveling" up the whole time. Is that not the case here? I think I see now why there are so few logistic pilots What is a logistics pilot to do with his/her spare time while he/she waits four months or so the become viable? I'd rather spork my eyes out than mine for four months I'd rather be in a lower level frigate... viable and necessary, and gaining practice in anticipation of "end game" content.
Alycea Taredi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.31 21:01:00 - [2] - Quote N3 have a wonderful little fleet doctrine called Goku fleet, it uses Frigate Logistics (specifically bantams). The problem is PVE, people will only accept the best nothing less, especially in Incursions.
Cameron Zero Red Federation 198	Posted - 2013.07.31 21:05:00 - [3] - Quote If you're interested in PVP, I'm sure you'd find all manner of people who would love to have logi, even in a frigate. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GÇª"
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 2379	Posted - 2013.07.31 21:11:00 - [4] - Quote You know how, in some games, there is that "elite" crowd that runs around, and demands the most pimped out gear, the most top notch skills, and the like... EvE has a portion of it's player base akin to those player-types. Generally, these are the "professional" carebears, although there are several "professional" PvP'ers that fit the bill too. Look elsewhere.... Many corps are happy to have a logi pilot along, especially in PvP. There are also many other roles you can fulfill that don't require huge skill investments.
DeAira Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2013.07.31 21:25:00 - [5] - Quote There are Newbie corps that would love to have a logi frigate. You could do it today. Sue, it's PvP, but frigates are cheap.
Klymer Hedion University Amarr Empire 343	Posted - 2013.07.31 21:41:00 - [6] - Quote Harley McMacho MD wrote: I must premise that I have little to no interest in PvP. EVE probably isn't the game for you then, especially if you want to focus on Logistics.
Paul Panala Circulus Exousias 66	Posted - 2013.07.31 21:53:00 - [7] - Quote T1 logi cruises are pretty good and don't require more than about a week of skills to fly halfway well. Start there, see if you like it. If you don't, then don't send the next few months training for a T2, you will probably not like it any better. Incursions are about the only use for a non-PvP logi. If you want to fly logi, you probably want to embrace PvP.
Trudeaux Margaret Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 89	Posted - 2013.07.31 23:20:00 - [8] - Quote You may find a corp that welcomes newbies and runs level 4 missions as a group; this kind of corp may be fine with a logi pilot in a T1 cruiser. The first corp I was in like this, but the fellow who was in charge of PvE has moved on and I don't think they do group missioning anymore. But you could seek out new player-friendly corps that specify that they run missions as a group. Frigate logi isn't "useless" though - whatever person told you that hasn't done any small-gang pvp. I serve as tackle on a bubble camp in Curse (NPC 0.0 space) and we occasionally see logi frigates come through as part of roaming groups. As you continue to play, I hope you get comfortable enough with EVE that you will want to at least try PvP. It is the heart and soul if the game, it is a blast, and good logi pilots are always in demand so you'll always have friends. INTERNET SPACESHIPS: SRS BSNS
Kalanaja Dog Nation United The East India Co. 48	Posted - 2013.08.01 04:27:00 - [9] - Quote All the above rings true. Incursions, at least when it comes to shiny fleets which is pretty much the ones in high sec are generally made of the same saps that just ran their wow raids until they got bored and came here and did the same thing. Nothing less then a tech 2 logi cruiser generally is used for them. And like they said, when it comes to actual missions logi ships are generally not used at all. For pvp however tech 1 cruisers and logi frigates are handy, can do the same job as the tech 2 logis though not to the same extent and will not break your wallet when they blow up.
Cannibal Kane Somali Coast Guard Authority 2157	Posted - 2013.08.01 06:58:00 - [10] - Quote Logistics is the Backbone of any large PVP group. However since you do want to deal with PVP you are extremely limited in it's use for PVE. Incursion runners as far as I know will only want certain types of pilots in lvl5 Logistics T2 Cruisers. For normal missions people can handle on their own. I would however state that if your part of a corp chances are you will be faced with war at some point even If you want to or not. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 58	Posted - 2013.08.01 07:26:00 - [11] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: For normal missions people can handle on their own. Currently that is true but devs have said that they want to change that. They want to make all PvE content more like PvP requiring fits that work better in PvP than in current PvE.
Cannibal Kane Somali Coast Guard Authority 2158	Posted - 2013.08.01 07:27:00 - [12] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: For normal missions people can handle on their own. Currently that is true but devs have said that they want to change that. They want to make all PvE content more like PvP requiring fits that work better in PvP than in current PvE. What CCP says and does are sometimes 2 completely different things. The day you see a DEV blog of them actually doing it then you can start planning accordingly. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
Nariya Kentaya Always Negative 663	Posted - 2013.08.01 07:41:00 - [13] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: You know how, in some games, there is that "elite" crowd that runs around, and demands the most pimped out gear, the most top notch skills, and the like... EvE has a portion of it's player base akin to those player-types. Generally, these are the "professional" carebears, although there are several "professional" PvP'ers that fit the bill too. Look elsewhere.... Many corps are happy to have a logi pilot along, especially in PvP. There are also many other roles you can fulfill that don't require huge skill investments. namely anything with tracking disruptors, target painters, pretty much any EWAR. even a t1 frigate with that junk is the bane of all pvp'ers existence when they come on field
Lost Greybeard Drunken Yordles 372	Posted - 2013.08.01 08:48:00 - [14] - Quote You will get all the skills to run a perfectly decent logistics frigate on the way to training cruiser-size logi. What you're being told is not to bother maxing the skills for the frigate logi beyond all the IVs you'll have for it anyhow... which is fair enough, as the bonus from, for instance, the extra rank (V) in racial frigate is not really worth the training time. As of half a year ago or so, there are also T1 cruiser Logis that are perfectly legitimate in your basic pvp groups. They're not usually up to the task of our equivalent of Raids, but if you want to do PvE raids then you're really in the wrong game, Eve is about PvP and PvP-related shenanigans and the incursion running is like a step DOWN from mining in terms of not boring you to death.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 634	Posted - 2013.08.01 09:02:00 - [15] - Quote Logi frigates I don't see often, if I do it's in PVP. A T1 Logistics cruiser however is indeed a good entry level ship for PVE as well as PVP. As a new player I wouldn't take the demands of Incursion running groups as a guideline. Take the humble Scythe: easy to skill into, and very viable as logi for (example) arty canes that are running lower level wormhole content. But yeah, any raiding / farming content merely serves as ISK faucets to fuel PVP in all it's myriad forms, so I agree with others that you should embrace PVP and do some pew pew with the rest of us.
Archdaimon NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred 225	Posted - 2013.08.01 09:07:00 - [16] - Quote Logistics is primarily pvp activity as it currently stands. PVE only comes as either as logi 5 t2 cruiser in incursions or an archon pilot in c5/c6 wh-space. Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Sabriz Adoudel Paragon Blitz 590	Posted - 2013.08.01 11:07:00 - [17] - Quote Highly recommend training into the tech 1 logi cruisers ASAP and using them in PVP small gang engagements as has been said. In any engagement of 8v8 or less, you will be the most valuable contributer to your PVP fleet. Plus, many groups will be happy to reimburse your inevitable losses (until the loss of a t1 logi cruiser becomes trivial to you). An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front.
Jose Black Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2013.08.01 11:40:00 - [18] - Quote In my opinion you're thinking too much of classes and specialization here. You should make your 106 day plan a lets say 150 day plan and have fun all along the way there. Likely you're planning to train support / fitting skills anyways. Those together with the ship skill will help with other roles too. You just have to add some weapon system skill to a somewhat decent level so you can do non logistic PVE too. You're not going to be a worse "healer" just because you mixed combat skills into your training. It will just take longer until you get perfect at logistics. And that is longer in calendar days, not longer hours at grinding. If you keep your eyes open you will encounter quite some people that would enjoy the company of a logistics ship and pilot doing their PVE.
Othran Route One 580	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:00:00 - [19] - Quote The best bit of advice I can give you is simply to ignore/block anyone who is still in the starter corp after a year. The advice you'll get will not be good advice as its either an alt or one of the many wierdos who like doing/saying the same thing time and time and time again. Don't try and specialise at this stage - get a broad range of skills up to L4 (L5 where it makes sense) and see what you enjoy doing. I've been playing on and off for 10 years but with all the T1 ship rebalancing I have no idea what I'm doing again, which is quite fun. Admittedly discovering that geddons could now use a flight of sentries wasn't so fun as I was at the business end of them Just broaden your skill base out while you learn/earn. In fact take a look at Tippia's Newbie Skill Plan as its pretty decent.
Jose Black Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:22:00 - [20] - Quote Othran wrote: The best bit of advice I can give you is simply to ignore/block anyone who is still in the starter corp after a year What? Clearly you've never been in any starter corp long enough to know what good general advice you may get there at times. Othran wrote: The advice you'll get will not be good advice as its either an alt or one of the many wierdos who like doing/saying the same thing time and time and time again. Maybe they're saying the same thing again and again because they're right? Myself I'm posting as an alt being in a newbie corp because I like being listened to for sounding reasonable rather than having a title, some fancy killboard stats or maybe belonging to some elitist weirdo corp. Othran wrote: Don't try and specialise at this stage - get a broad range of skills up to L4 (L5 where it makes sense) and see what you enjoy doing. Basically what I said too. Othran wrote: I've been playing on and off for 10 years but with all the T1 ship rebalancing I have no idea what I'm doing again, which is quite fun. [..] So you (partly) have no idea what you're doing but you feel entitled to give better advice than someone else? Well tbh, you seem to be a perfect fit for any block list then. No wait, you're trolling aren't you? My bad.
Othran Route One 580	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:36:00 - [21] - Quote Jose Black wrote: snip rant Touched a nerve obviously I said what I did because in my experience* its true. The alts have long since forgotten what its like to only have one character; the wierdos who have only one character in starter corp for years have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to corps/lowsec/nullsec/life in general. YMMV of course. *4+ months in starter corp; then 7 or 8 alts spending between 1-10 months in various starter corps. Edit - you do realise I'm on about blocking/ignoring them in-game mmm?
Radius Prime Tax Evading Ass. 132	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:43:00 - [22] - Quote Grrrr Forum made my 2000 word essay disappear. Not typing it again. Good luck Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 246	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:48:00 - [23] - Quote Flying solo, it takes longer, because you've got to put together a full slate of skills, and find a ship that will be good enough at a bunch of them to work, and that does take time. Two noobs in more specialized ships can make life hell for one more experienced person, though. If one's flying a Condor with a long point, and the other's flying a Merlin with a scram and blasters, that can be a challenge even for a veteran. (Assuming the veteran's not backed up by multiple boosters, like a Loki/Legion combo parked off behind a POS forcefield, of course). "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
Sebelling Spacey Frankenmouse Inc 2	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:21:00 - [24] - Quote Find a smaller corp that does group level 4 missions and be their logi. No need for you to have all the skills in the world to help them out. Then you can keep training to get the logi cruisers while being useful already.
Ovv Topik Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 464	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:58:00 - [25] - Quote Also mate, remember that Skill training in Eve loosely follows the 80/20 rule. On your 106 day plan you can be flying that t1 logi cruiser at 80% efficiency in around 21 days, the final 20% of skill boosts taking around 85 days. There are very few skills you need to 5 to have fun. True facts: The Tarzier survives in the forest by disguising itself as a teddybear having a colonoscopy.
Lady Katherine Devonshire Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps Interstellar Online Network 157	Posted - 2013.08.01 15:19:00 - [26] - Quote One could always find a drone based, PvE mission runner and offer to tag along and keep their precious drones at full health. Even a novice in a logistics frigate can handle that easily enough, as drones are notorious for their lack of hit points, and it saves the host pilot from having to pack their own repair equipment (and instead bring more actual weapons along, which makes missions go a little bit faster). The sound of the Amarrian heart
Shane Saken Black Rise Tactical Solutions 6	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:36:00 - [27] - Quote Klymer wrote: Harley McMacho MD wrote: I must premise that I have little to no interest in PvP. EVE probably isn't the game for you then, especially if you want to focus on Logistics. I thought the same thing........ You may have no interest in it but it will find you. You may wanna re look into PVP as it is highly sought in PVP and not so much PVE.
Elliavir Kid's Logistics Inc Moose Alliance 42	Posted - 2013.08.02 05:02:00 - [28] - Quote As other folks have noted - many corps like to run group missions and would welcome a logi pilot on those. Some of what you may have been running into in general chat is the tendency of people in EVE to mistrust folks they don't know. This isn't like many other MMOs where someone in a 'healing' role is automatically welcome in a group - and if you read around on the forums a bit you'll find enough tales of scams and betrayals to know why. But, once you have some friends and corpmates, you will find that like most other MMOs, people willing to do the 'healing role' are welcomed. As an oddball suggestion, you could pick up some drone skills and a drone-centered ship, fit an remote repair module in one of your high slots, and get some practice being your own group while running lower-level missions. It will give you a chance to get a feel for target switching and rep timing and aggro management and such while soloing. And drone skills aren't wasted - logistics drones are one of the 'healing' tools that are a key element of some of the later logistics ships.
Cannibal Kane Somali Coast Guard Authority 2167	Posted - 2013.08.02 06:00:00 - [29] - Quote Jose Black wrote: In my opinion you're thinking too much of classes and specialization here. You should make your 106 day plan a lets say 150 day plan and have fun all along the way there. Likely you're planning to train support / fitting skills anyways. Those together with the ship skill will help with other roles too. You just have to add some weapon system skill to a somewhat decent level so you can do non logistic PVE too. You're not going to be a worse "healer" just because you mixed combat skills into your training. It will just take longer until you get perfect at logistics. And that is longer in calendar days, not longer hours at grinding. If you keep your eyes open you will encounter quite some people that would enjoy the company of a logistics ship and pilot doing their PVE. I will just add... The few times I was in a npc corp for a day or 2 I have seen the kind of advice people who are in NPC and stay in NPC corps give. I would as a general rule ignore everything they say.... EVER. If your planning on specializing in a single ship normally you would have a goal your trying to achieve by doing so. If not, have fun don't let others dictate your career choice. As other have mentioned EVE follows the 80/20 rule. Fly some ships do some missions, join a corp find out what makes the game exciting for you and then focus your training to make what you found work better for you. Just to make things easier. This is how I approached it. I knew I wanted to PVP. That is all I cared about since my first kill. I did not want to hamstring myself by a single race so I trained the following path. All Races Frigates/Support/Weapons to lvl5. AFter that I started with all races Cruisers/support/weapons to lvl5 and so on. Only recently did I start focusing on Battleships. That Idea might seem boring to some people that want to get in a battleship asap but that is the path I chose. I had fun all the way through. In November I would be going on doing what I started 3 years ago and not a day goes by were I regret it. If you have any questions your more than welcome to ask my ingame. I will be next to useless on indy/pve questions though since I have not even finished my tutorial missions yet. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
lollerwaffle Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 78	Posted - 2013.08.02 06:53:00 - [30] - Quote Jose Black wrote: Snip NPC corp dude is mad. More news at 11.

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