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          TharOkha 
          0asis Group
  553
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 06:45:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
          
           
          Every freighter should have a purpose. We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
  Minmatar Fernir - Freighter skill bonus: 5% to agility, 10% to warp speed Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold Amarr Providence - 5% to armor HP, 5% to armor resistances (base 250.000 Armor HP) Galente Obelisk - 5% to cargohold 5% to speed
  Fernir- fast and agile hauler - great for non-autopilot players, Fixed cargohold up to 800k m3 Charon - large cargohold + dedicated mineral cargohold for hauling large volumes of cheap minerals like tritanium Providence - Fixed smaller cargohold (up to 500k m3) but great HP - ideal for hauling expensive stuff at the expense of low agility and speed. Obelisk - status quo. something in between. 
  GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ | 
      
      
      
          
          Erutpar Ambient 
          Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
  69
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 06:56:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote:Every freighter should have a purpose. We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
  Minmatar Fernir - Freighter skill bonus: 5% to agility, 10% to warp speed Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed Amarr Providence - 5% to armor HP, 5% to armor resistances (base 250.000 Armor HP) Galente Obelisk - 5% to cargohold 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold
  Fernir- fast and agile hauler - great for non-autopilot players, Fixed cargohold up to 800k m3 Charon - status quo. something in between. Providence - Fixed smaller cargohold (up to 500k m3) but great HP - ideal for hauling expensive stuff at the expense of low agility and speed. Obelisk - large cargohold + dedicated mineral cargohold for hauling large volumes of cheap minerals like tritanium
     fixed   | 
      
      
      
          
          Arthur Aihaken 
          The.VOID
  98
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 07:04:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
          
           
          How about just some slots? | 
      
      
      
          
          Ix Method 
          Axis of Hugs
  33
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 08:50:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
          
           
          Not sure something that takes so long/costs so much to train should be quite this specialised, every race could do with a bog standard freighter.
  If you want a second freighter for each race with a role *shrugs* but you''re missing something that can carry assembled ships godamnit   | 
      
      
      
          
          Tobias Hareka 
          Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
  58
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 08:52:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
          
           
          Erutpar Ambient wrote:TharOkha wrote:Every freighter should have a purpose. We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
  Minmatar Fernir - Freighter skill bonus: 5% to agility, 10% to warp speed Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed Amarr Providence - 5% to armor HP, 5% to armor resistances (base 250.000 Armor HP) Galente Obelisk - 5% to cargohold 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold
  Fernir- fast and agile hauler - great for non-autopilot players, Fixed cargohold up to 800k m3 Charon - status quo. something in between. Providence - Fixed smaller cargohold (up to 500k m3) but great HP - ideal for hauling expensive stuff at the expense of low agility and speed. Obelisk - large cargohold + dedicated mineral cargohold for hauling large volumes of cheap minerals like tritanium
    fixed    
  So, Charon and Providence would be useless. | 
      
      
      
          
          Maximus Aerelius 
          PROPHET OF ENIGMA
  210
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 14:27:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote: (1)Every freighter should have a purpose.  (2)We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
 
  
  On (1) the purpose of every freighter is...well this is awkward....to move huge amounts of freight! Purpose done.
  On (2) with the new T1 Industrials you will get this specialisation. Freighters don't need slots or specialisation...they're freighters with behemoth cargo carrying capacity.
  Just my opinion. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
  Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! | 
      
      
      
          
          De'Veldrin 
          Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
  1807
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 14:29:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
          
           
          Freighters are fine as they are. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. | 
      
      
      
          
          Ines Tegator 
          Towels R Us
  338
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 16:35:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
          
           
          Freighters are already balanced. There are minor but important differences between them, yet the differences are not big enough to make me need to train another race for 2 months if I change my business style. This is how it should be. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? | 
      
      
      
          
          Whitehound 
           1754
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 17:09:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote: ... Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold ...   If anything then this should be a special cargohold for planetary commodities like Aqueous Liquids. Moving those with a freighter at current is not really profitable and 2,000,000 m3 of space would be rather nice here. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. | 
      
      
      
          
          Rivr Luzade 
          Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
  16
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 17:16:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
          
           
          Just no to these changes. This would mean we would be forced to train things that some/many don't want to train just to fly a freighter for every purpose. That's in my opinion not feasible. | 
      
      
      
          
          Kirtar Makanen 
          GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
  15
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.01 17:26:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote:Every freighter should have a purpose. We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
  Minmatar Fernir - Freighter skill bonus: 5% to agility, 10% to warp speed Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold Amarr Providence - 5% to armor HP, 5% to armor resistances (base 250.000 Armor HP) Galente Obelisk - 5% to cargohold 5% to speed
  Fernir- fast and agile hauler - great for non-autopilot players, Fixed cargohold up to 800k m3 Charon - large cargohold + dedicated mineral cargohold for hauling large volumes of cheap minerals like tritanium Providence - Fixed smaller cargohold (up to 500k m3) but great HP - ideal for hauling expensive stuff at the expense of low agility and speed. Obelisk - status quo. something in between. 
    The last time I checked 700k+ is already a fairly large volume. Freighters already have pretty good intraclass balance due to the existing (though relatively minor) tradeoffs between align time, EHP, and cargo space. There is little reason to make freighters have specialized holds. | 
      
      
      
          
          Zalgo13 
          Section 8. Fatal Ascension
  2
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.02 00:50:00 -
          [12] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote:Every freighter should have a purpose. We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
 
  Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold +1 Defensive Systems Slot +1 Electronic Systems Slot +1 Engineering Systems Slot +1 Offensive Systems Slot +1 Propulsion Systems Slot +2 High Slot +99% Reduction to Covert Ops Cloak CPU/PG need. +1 Mid Slot + Strontium Bay (10k m3) +1 Reinforce mode +50% resists + Deploy-able POS guns (Like sentries but POS guns) +1 Doomsday lowslot.
 
 
  Charon - large cargohold + dedicated mineral cargohold for hauling large volumes of cheap minerals like tritanium
 
    | 
      
      
      
          
          Arya Regnar 
          Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
  63
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.02 01:57:00 -
          [13] - Quote 
          
           
          Amarr Providence - 5% to armor HP, 5% to armor resistances (base 250.000 Armor HP)
  Yeah... NO Go crawl back into whatever hole you came from carebear.
  No industrial ship should have that much EHP. Since were discussing this stuff I think they should reduce overall EHP of freighters instead of making them effectively unkillable due to node lag.
 
  EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
  | 
      
      
      
          
          Balthazar Lestrane 
          Viziam Amarr Empire
  56
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 02:27:00 -
          [14] - Quote 
          
           
          Arya Regnar wrote:Amarr Providence - 5% to armor HP, 5% to armor resistances (base 250.000 Armor HP)
  Yeah... NO Go crawl back into whatever hole you came from carebear.
  No industrial ship should have that much EHP. Since were discussing this stuff I think they should reduce overall EHP of freighters instead of making them effectively unkillable due to node lag.
   
 
  Freighters die all the time. They are fine, no changes needed. | 
      
      
      
          
          TharOkha 
          0asis Group
  553
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 06:43:00 -
          [15] - Quote 
          
           
          Arya Regnar wrote:Amarr Providence - 5% to armor HP, 5% to armor resistances (base 250.000 Armor HP)
  Yeah... NO Go crawl back into whatever hole you came from carebear.
  No industrial ship should have that much EHP. Since were discussing this stuff I think they should reduce overall EHP of freighters instead of making them effectively unkillable due to node lag.
   
  Oh, so you want super easily gankable low HP expensive ship and I AM A CAREBEAR?   No you are missing the whole point of this thread. My proposal for Providence was that there are some types of goods that could fit within 400-500k m3 but are expensive (more than few Billions) So even for gankers it would take many more Tornadoes/Catalysts to be profitable, but providence pilot would deal with very low agility and speed. Also if you quote something, be sure to quote whole proposal next time (like low agility for Providence), not just stuff you dont like.
  According other opinions from other ppls here i can agree with most of you.
  What we can all agree is that we need some kind of ship with large cargo-hold for cheap but large volume goods like tritanium or Aqueous Liquids. Even if you fill whole charon with tritanium, its value is no more than 400-500M. Not so lucrative for trader or even ganker.
  GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ | 
      
      
      
          
          HiddenPorpoise 
          BG-1 The Craniac
  37
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.02 07:10:00 -
          [16] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote:2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold   Name one thing you can fill that with that doesn't make you worth killing on the spot. | 
      
      
      
          
          Archess Nei 
           5
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.02 08:00:00 -
          [17] - Quote 
          
           
          Give freighters 1 cap rig slot that can change the cargo hold to be more specialized. At least this way it would cost you some isk if you decide to change your business model . And you wouldn't need to own all 4 freighters. | 
      
      
      
          
          Maximus Aerelius 
          PROPHET OF ENIGMA
  212
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 08:04:00 -
          [18] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote:We can all agree that we need some kind of ship with large cargo-hold for cheap but large volume goods like tritanium or Aqueous Liquids.  
  I think you've misread that not all agree, in fact most people who have commented disagreed with the statement above. Sorry OP. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
  Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! | 
      
      
      
          
          Maximus Aerelius 
          PROPHET OF ENIGMA
  212
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 08:06:00 -
          [19] - Quote 
          
           
          Zalgo13 wrote:TharOkha wrote:Every freighter should have a purpose. We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
 
  Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold +1 Defensive Systems Slot +1 Electronic Systems Slot +1 Engineering Systems Slot +1 Offensive Systems Slot +1 Propulsion Systems Slot +2 High Slot +99% Reduction to Covert Ops Cloak CPU/PG need. +1 Mid Slot + Strontium Bay (10k m3) +1 Reinforce mode +50% resists + Deploy-able POS guns (Like sentries but POS guns) +1 Doomsday lowslot.
 
 
  Charon - large cargohold + dedicated mineral cargohold for hauling large volumes of cheap minerals like tritanium
 
    
  Please tell me this was sarcasm and not a serious suggestion!?!
  My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
  Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! | 
      
      
      
          
          TharOkha 
          0asis Group
  553
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 08:42:00 -
          [20] - Quote 
          
           
          HiddenPorpoise wrote:TharOkha wrote:2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold  Name one thing you can fill that with that doesn't make you worth killing on the spot.  
  Maybe this should help you GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ | 
      
      
      
          
          Whitehound 
           1758
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 08:55:00 -
          [21] - Quote 
          
           
          Maximus Aerelius wrote:Zalgo13 wrote:TharOkha wrote:Every freighter should have a purpose. We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
 
  Caldari Charon - 5% to cargohold, 5% to speed - special ability: 2.000.000 m3 mineral cargo-hold +1 Defensive Systems Slot +1 Electronic Systems Slot +1 Engineering Systems Slot +1 Offensive Systems Slot +1 Propulsion Systems Slot +2 High Slot +99% Reduction to Covert Ops Cloak CPU/PG need. +1 Mid Slot + Strontium Bay (10k m3) +1 Reinforce mode +50% resists + Deploy-able POS guns (Like sentries but POS guns) +1 Doomsday lowslot.
 
 
  Charon - large cargohold + dedicated mineral cargohold for hauling large volumes of cheap minerals like tritanium
 
    Please tell me this was sarcasm and not a serious suggestion!?!   He forgot to mention that it can fit strip miners. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. | 
      
      
      
          
          HiddenPorpoise 
          BG-1 The Craniac
  37
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 08:57:00 -
          [22] - Quote 
          
           
          I think a freighter with a billion isk in trit is going to be killed on sight, therefore I have poor reading comprehension? I don't follow.
  100 minerals fit it 1 m3 of space. Trit is always about 5 isk. 1 m3 of trit is ~500isk. 500 times 2 is 1000. 1000 * 1,000,000 = 1,000,000,000.
  The cheapest stuff you can load into it is worth ganking for, anything nicer than mex makes the cargo hold with engines worth more than a super. | 
      
      
      
          
          Arya Regnar 
          Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
  64
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 13:21:00 -
          [23] - Quote 
          
           
          TharOkha wrote:Oh, so you want super easily gankable low HP expensive ship and I AM A CAREBEAR?    No you are missing the whole point of this thread. My proposal for Providence was that there are some types of goods that could fit within 400-500k m3 but are expensive (more than few Billions) So even for gankers it would take many more Tornadoes/Catalysts to be profitable, but providence pilot would deal with very low agility and speed. Also if you quote something, be sure to quote whole proposal next time (like low agility for Providence), not just stuff you dont like.  
  As long as that kind of providence has more than 10k cargo nothing will matter even if it takes 5 minutes to align for warp. That kind of ehp would be invaluable to carebears that want to carry 15 bil safely. You are proposing a 800-900k EHP providence. (ganglinks, HG slaves, armor implant, perfect skills).
  That kind of ehp is absurd because gankers might as well just crash the node by spawning that much concord when suiciding. That would make this kind of ship invulnerable no?
  EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
  | 
      
      
      
          
          Whitehound 
           1760
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 14:43:00 -
          [24] - Quote 
          
           
          HiddenPorpoise wrote:I think a freighter with a billion isk in trit is going to be killed on sight, therefore I have poor reading comprehension? I don't follow.
  100 minerals fit it 1 m3 of space. Trit is always about 5 isk. 1 m3 of trit is ~500isk. 500 times 2 is 1000. 1000 * 1,000,000 = 1,000,000,000.
  The cheapest stuff you can load into it is worth ganking for, anything nicer than mex makes the cargo hold with engines worth more than a super.   No. You are safe up to 2b ISKs.
  Do not forget gankers have to share the profit from a gank with everyone in the fleet and that they want the profit to be better than mission running or else it is not worth getting a sec. status hit each time. So it is not only the cost of several gank BCs versus value of cargo versus drop chance.
  Gankers then need to haul their loot out of the ganking system, too, and it already happened that one ganker gets ganked by some other ganking fleet (like a cackle of hyenas). Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. | 
      
      
      
          
          TharOkha 
          0asis Group
  553
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 16:47:00 -
          [25] - Quote 
          
           
          Arya Regnar wrote: --Edit-- I calculated the max ehp on the providence with those stats, its 1.04 million ehp
  If you can't see how stupid this is then get out.
  
  I edited OP just for you   Read the "EDIT" part please
  GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ | 
      
      
      
          
          Ines Tegator 
          Towels R Us
  338
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 19:15:00 -
          [26] - Quote 
          
           
          Archess Nei wrote:Give freighters 1 cap rig slot that can change the cargo hold to be more specialized. At least this way it would cost you some isk if you decide to change your business model . And you wouldn't need to own all 4 freighters.   Now this idea I like - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? | 
      
      
      
          
          Maximus Andendare 
          Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
  395
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.08.02 20:08:00 -
          [27] - Quote 
          
           
          Maximus Aerelius wrote:TharOkha wrote: (1)Every freighter should have a purpose.  (2)We also lack of dedicated mineral hauler for cheap and large volume minerals like tritanium. 
 
  On (1) the purpose of every freighter is...well this is awkward....to move huge amounts of freight! Purpose done. On (2) with the new T1 Industrials you will get this specialisation. Freighters don't need slots or specialisation...they're freighters with behemoth cargo carrying capacity. Just my opinion.  The Maximuses (Maximii?) agree! Freighter's don't need any more "specialization." They have built-in differences, preserve racial flavor and perform similar functions well. 
  Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day. | 
      
      
      
          
          Maximus Aerelius 
          PROPHET OF ENIGMA
  219
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.08.02 20:13:00 -
          [28] - Quote 
          
           
          Maximus Andendare wrote:The Maximuses (Maximii?) agree! Freighter's don't need any more "specialization." They have built-in differences, preserve racial flavor and perform similar functions well.  
  Maximus, I think we should up vote this name 'Maximii' as the plural for a when a group of 'Maximus' named capsuleers get together and agree.   My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
  Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! | 
      
      
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