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qusetion about the Nightmare

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Jessica Saphire Great White in North Expedidtions ArK Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:53:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, I am currently grinding rep towards level 4 missions in caldari/amarr space, and so far Ive read that the Nightmare is pretty much the optimal vessel to run these (ill have a salvage alt soon). My question is one about T2 large lasers. Ive looked over some compelling arguments for both T2 beams and pulses, and I cannot decide what type i should be training toward. I recognize that what may look good on paper may not apply the same way to real situations, therefore Im calling upon the expertise of the eve community to help me : )
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1425	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:59:00 - [2] - Quote T2 pulses are mandatory for pulse fits; without Scorch pulses are kind of meh. T2 beams are pretty optional. For a Nightmare, you'll be running tachs no matter what; T2 tachs are basically resource hogs, but they do get the standard bonus from the spec skill -- and as per usual that puts them strictly ahead in terms of DPS. Faction tachs, and even meta 4 tachs, are a popular option due to the dramatically lower cap use and fitting costs. If you were to choose one to prioritize, I'd go with pulses.
Jessica Saphire Great White in North Expedidtions ArK Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:05:00 - [3] - Quote Zhilia Mann wrote: T2 pulses are mandatory for pulse fits; without Scorch pulses are kind of meh. T2 beams are pretty optional. For a Nightmare, you'll be running tachs no matter what; T2 tachs are basically resource hogs, but they do get the standard bonus from the spec skill -- and as per usual that puts them strictly ahead in terms of DPS. Faction tachs, and even meta 4 tachs, are a popular option due to the dramatically lower cap use and fitting costs. If you were to choose one to prioritize, I'd go with pulses. So for a Nightmare i should be running beams, but you recommend pulses?
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1425	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:10:00 - [4] - Quote In a surface sense, yes. In a more nuanced reading, there are reasons to fit pulses for certain missions. If all the spawns are close, you might as well take advantage of the higher damage potential of pulses, but you will still want the extra projection Scorch gives you for stragglers. Mercenary missions like Damsel are prime examples of where you'd want to refit your normally tach fit Nightmare for pulses. But for normal operation, yes, you'd switch back to tachs. Also note that tachs also have a very different damage profile than Scorch. MF does a significant portion of thermal damage, while Scorch is almost pure EM. When you're shooting Guristas in particular that extra thermal makes a huge difference -- and the tend to stay at range. So yeah, it's not a simple answer. Either way, you're looking at Large Energy Turret 5, which will benefit both weapon systems, but if you have to take one and only one up through spec skills, pulses are the way to go simply because they aren't really a functional option without Scorch -- while tachs can operate without T2 ammo or the spec skill.
Jessica Saphire Great White in North Expedidtions ArK Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:22:00 - [5] - Quote Witch T2 and scorch, id get something around a 71km range, is anything more than this needed for lvl 4s and still does more damage than aurora. With conflag, its still something like a 30k range and tons more dps than close range beam lasers
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1425	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:32:00 - [6] - Quote Tachs and pulses have very different damage curves. An approach and at a reasonable range, tachs will almost always beat out even Scorch-fit pulses. But up close pulses obviously win (basically at ranges where you can swap from Scorch down to at least IN X-ray but preferably MF). And again, the damage profile of Scorch is problematic against Guristas. MF does ~42% thermal damage while Scorch does ~18%. Against a Guristas resist profile firing Scorch is more or less futile compared to MF -- and they like to stay at range. Which is more or less why you want to have the option to fit pulse on some missions but tachs on others.
Jessica Saphire Great White in North Expedidtions ArK Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 22:21:00 - [7] - Quote I guess my question then would be do pulses and tachs require different fits? If not it would be easy to carry both in the cargohold and swap at the closest station as needed. It seems to me like this is a case of "better in eft than it is in reality"
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1425	Posted - 2013.08.01 22:48:00 - [8] - Quote Yeah, the fits are pretty interchangeable. When you fit pulses you can easily drop a mid of choice for a prop mod to help you move around. Tach fit will be tighter if you want to swing that. Otherwise there's really not much to change around.
Jessica Saphire Great White in North Expedidtions ArK Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 22:50:00 - [9] - Quote Is there a basic nightmare fit that everyone uses
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1320	Posted - 2013.08.01 23:32:00 - [10] - Quote not really. some people fly with three heat sinks, some with 4. people use damage contols or tracking enhancers, between one and three tracking computers, different rigs and different tank setups. even the utility high slots vary, some prefer drone range extenders, others take tractor beams. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF

Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1426	Posted - 2013.08.02 00:37:00 - [11] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: not really. some people fly with three heat sinks, some with four. people use damage contols or tracking enhancers, between one and three tracking computers, different rigs and different tank setups. even the utility high slots vary, some prefer drone range extenders, others take tractor beams. ^^ That. Plus they pretty much all have a heavy cap booster of one flavor or another. Other high slot options include faction NOS and autotargeters (for more locked targets; I like to run one). But honestly it doesn't amount to all that much variation at the end of the day.
Jack Miton Semper Ubi Sub Ubi 2206	Posted - 2013.08.02 02:09:00 - [12] - Quote Tachs are the way to go on a nightmare
Paikis Vapour Holdings 913	Posted - 2013.08.02 02:46:00 - [13] - Quote Jessica Saphire wrote: Is there a basic nightmare fit that everyone uses Sanshas4s - Basic T2 wrote: Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script EM Ward Field II EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 There's your basic fit. First upgrade should be the heat sinks (at least 3) to faction, then get the guns to faction. After that you can upgrade your resist mods to c-type, go EM/Therm/Invul and use the extra mid for a second TC. Once you have the skills for T2 Tachyons, use them, sell the Imp Navy ones. Gleam does not exist for missions.
Cage Man 247	Posted - 2013.08.02 03:19:00 - [14] - Quote Paikis wrote: Once you have the skills for T2 Tachyons, use them, sell the Imp Navy ones. Gleam does not exist for missions. Gleam tracks better than IN and works much better on a Tach NM for trying to hit stuff under 20KM. Maybe you just missed the changes to t2 ammo and yes I have tried it and it definitely hits better. The thick plottens...
bloodknight2 Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS 128	Posted - 2013.08.02 03:29:00 - [15] - Quote Faction tach, 4 faction heatsink, faction shield booster. Everything else can be T2
Paikis Vapour Holdings 913	Posted - 2013.08.02 04:58:00 - [16] - Quote Cage Man wrote: Paikis wrote: Once you have the skills for T2 Tachyons, use them, sell the Imp Navy ones. Gleam does not exist for missions. Gleam tracks better than IN and works much better on a Tach NM for trying to hit stuff under 20KM. Maybe you just missed the changes to t2 ammo and yes I have tried it and it definitely hits better. If anything gets close enough that using Gleam is a good idea, then you've failed somewhere.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 322	Posted - 2013.08.02 05:26:00 - [17] - Quote it is a few days difference what does it really matter? that said I'd go for beams first for the nightmare. and pulses a few days later for everything else. You can trust me, I have a monocole
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1320	Posted - 2013.08.02 08:24:00 - [18] - Quote Paikis wrote: Cage Man wrote: Paikis wrote: Once you have the skills for T2 Tachyons, use them, sell the Imp Navy ones. Gleam does not exist for missions. Gleam tracks better than IN and works much better on a Tach NM for trying to hit stuff under 20KM. Maybe you just missed the changes to t2 ammo and yes I have tried it and it definitely hits better. If anything gets close enough that using Gleam is a good idea, then you've failed somewhere. confirmed. if anything, i would use aurora to counter heavy TD (but navy standard works just as fine). "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2013.08.02 13:56:00 - [19] - Quote Paikis wrote: If anything gets close enough that using Gleam is a good idea, then you've failed somewhere. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Vengeance4sa Daniel Plain wrote: i would use aurora to counter heavy TD You do know that Aurora tracking sucks?
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 171	Posted - 2013.08.02 17:32:00 - [20] - Quote If you're willing to spend the money and run the, in my opinion negligible, risk of being higher up on the gank bait food chain dropping money for faction tachyons and a Gist booster will let you drop the cap injector. Likewise using vampires in your high slots can also help achieve the same thing. Dropping the cap booster will let you fit another tracking computer for better damage application. The only downside to vampires is that if you pack two heavies you can't fit an afterburner, and their PvE workings are a bit "mysterious" compared to their PvP workings. Read "mysterious" as, "I've seen half a dozen different explanations over the years."

Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3760	Posted - 2013.08.02 21:42:00 - [21] - Quote I always found it effective to have more than one ship. Some missions are better fit short range and it takes too long to refit really. Just buy two nightmares and have one pulse fit and the other beam fit. In my particular case the last trio I used was a Golem/CNR/Tengu... but that's been ages. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Paikis Vapour Holdings 913	Posted - 2013.08.03 01:51:00 - [22] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Paikis wrote: If anything gets close enough that using Gleam is a good idea, then you've failed somewhere. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Vengeance4sa Daniel Plain wrote: i would use aurora to counter heavy TD You do know that Aurora tracking sucks? If you're using Tachyons in Vengeance, that's your failure. Fit pulse lasers. Tracking at that range would be fine. You use Aurrora to counteract the range decrease. You can be aimed perfectly, but if you don't have the range, you may as well just dump your capacitor into space. Glancing hits due to tracking issues are better than complete misses because your optimal is 3km.


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