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Skill training and UNReasonable things

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15869	Posted - 2013.08.02 12:13:00 - [1] - Quote Klandi wrote: In the recent "Reasonable things" it touches on skill training timers and the latest proposal is to increase them to 48/72 hrs. What are you lot thinking with? Good question. There's really no need to increase it beyond 24h. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15869	Posted - 2013.08.02 12:26:00 - [2] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: There's really no reason not to increase it either. Sure there is: to ensure that you actually play the game every now and then and provide content for other players. Until the Earth starts spinning at half of one-third speed, the purpose of the skill queue (to ensure you don't have to get up at 3AM to change skills) is amply fulfilled by having a 24h limit. Hell, it could even be reduced to 12h without any real issues. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15869	Posted - 2013.08.02 12:57:00 - [3] - Quote Klandi wrote: Now if the devs came back and said that all the queues for all the skills would cause lag/issues then there would be a good reason not to do this, but as this is completely a server side function, I don't see how it would affect gameplay at all. Fewer people logging in GÇö that's your gameplay effect right there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15869	Posted - 2013.08.02 13:18:00 - [4] - Quote Mr Kidd wrote: I, seriously, cannot believe the majority of people in this thread don't want a longer skill queue. A player is either going to play the game or not. Having a 24hr skill queue only means that someone who is unwilling or incapable of playing the game every 24hrs will log on, queue, log off. GÇªexcept that you don't have to play the game every 24h. You just have to log on once at some point within 24 hours of your queue expiring. That can still mean you only log in once a monthGÇª or hell, even once every two months. And no, I've seen plenty of examples where people have logged on to just switch their skills, gotten caught up in corp chat or by something else going on, and then stayed logged on. The more opportunities there are for that to happen, the better. I don't want the skill queue to be any longer because it serves its purpose more than perfectly with 24 hours, and it will reduce serendipity if it is made any longer. So, seriously, believe it. Quote: If a person isn't playing religiously they shouldn't be penalized for it. Good news: they're not. The skill queue ensures this already. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15872	Posted - 2013.08.02 15:06:00 - [5] - Quote Doc Severide wrote: Also on another note, I'd really like to see someone somewhere show me even one reply where Tippia actually agreed with someone on any subject... Ok. Happens very frequently as long as the argument is sound and/or intelligently presented. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15872	Posted - 2013.08.02 15:24:00 - [6] - Quote Klandi wrote: Tippia - so what if I pay for my game time and then do not decide to log in except to skill change? Then that's your choice and your waste of money. It still doesn't mean that having people exposed to the game as often as possible and giving the opportunity for serendipitous gameplay is something that should be removed or even reduced. The only real problem is that they called it a skill queue. So my counter-suggestion is that, instead of increasing the skill queue to however many hours you feel is necessary so you can waste your money, they just change the name of it to reflect what it is: the GÇ£skill switch bufferGÇ¥, and then they leave that buffer at 24 hours since that's more than enough. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15872	Posted - 2013.08.02 15:34:00 - [7] - Quote Caliph Muhammed wrote: Normally i'm right in line with your thinking but how is me logging in once every 24 hours to put in a skill and then immediately logging off providing content for anyone? Because when you log in, you notice that you're all alone in corp chat and your mailbox is clogged up with POS fuel warning notificationsGÇª and hey, it's just a quick two minute job, right? Because you log in and you notice the intel channel chatter about the fool who's trying to jump through the gate to highsec in his brand spanking new (first) Thanatos, so the call for escalation is going out to all and sundry, and hey, who doesn't want a free cap KM? Because you log in andGÇª holy hell, that's a lot of C-flagged people in local and a lot of swearing from a bunch of people who apparently got ganked right outside your station in their bling ships! Wonder if there's any loot or T2 wrecks left overGÇª? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15872	Posted - 2013.08.02 15:45:00 - [8] - Quote Caliph Muhammed wrote: You're stretching it here Tipp. Those are all examples from my personal experience and off the top of my head. I've had corpmates who have gotten caught up in far more interesting shenanigans as they GÇ£just quickly logged on for a skill changeGÇ¥. Quote: But the three minutes I log in and sit in Jita 4 to set my que isn't providing meaningful content to anyone. Oh, I'm sure that you're locking out some poor auto-piloting freighter pilot who got ganked on the gate just because of youGÇª GÇªbut that is stretching it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15874	Posted - 2013.08.02 15:53:00 - [9] - Quote Mr Kidd wrote: Tippia, you're faux arguments do get tiring after a while. What you're implying here is not what I stated, you know it, I know, others know it. Able to play, unable able to play are mutually exclusive. So yeah, it does penalize people who for reasons unto themselves are unable to play or get on every 24hrs. No, it doesn't, because the skill queue means you don't have to log in ever 24h. And just because it is absolutely impossible for some to get caught up that one time for some OOG reason doesn't mean that at other times, and/or for other players, that supposed GÇ£quick skill changeGÇ¥ doesn't lead to a surprise session. Quote: It's a selfish argument from you & others who somehow put a priority on the game over rl, tbh. GÇªyou mean kind of like how GÇ£adjust the game to how I [don't] want to play itGÇ¥ is based on nothing but selfishness. If it's so small and quick that they stand zero change of getting caught up in the game, then it's so small and quick that doing it within 24h of the end of a skill is something that is trivially included in the day. No RL kids will be hurt in the process, I promise. GÇªin fact, that's the kind of GÇ£not right nowGÇ¥ problems the skill queue has already solved perfectly with its 24h length. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15874	Posted - 2013.08.02 16:10:00 - [10] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: You overlook the fact that the skill system is a selling point and the que takes a huge bite out of a very big problem encountered with MMOs. That problem is the "he who has the least life wins" problem. Eh, no, I'm not overlooking it. Whatever gave you that idea? Quite the opposite: I am fully aware of that problem and of how the skill queue GÇö even at a 24h length GÇö solves that pretty much entirely. For one, I understand how the setup means that you don't have to log in every day. Quote: Not everybody can be a neckbeard who can log on all day every day. And both the skill system and the skill queue ensures that they don't get any particular advantage (as far as character skill goes, at least). Quote: I might have seen you in WoW No. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15874	Posted - 2013.08.02 16:25:00 - [11] - Quote Mr Kidd wrote: Yes, you do have to log in religiously to set your queue, especially skilling a new direction. Whenever you want for a day at the end of the current queue (or some time roughly once every other day if you're trying a new direction) doesn't strike me as particularly GÇ£religiouslyGÇ¥. It's still not every day, on the hour, as some are trying to suggest. Quote: Sure, when you get to level 4's 5's you don't but that still isn't really a reason not to extend the queue. GÇªwhich you do with the span of the 24h queue, so it's never really a problem, and the reason to extend the queue is still that it removes and reduces serendipitous gameplay. Quote: As to "adjust the game to how I [don't] want to play it", there are a plethora of examples where the game has been altered to this effect. The original non-queued skill training, the original click-fest that was PI Not really, no. Those were examples that don't boil down to subjecting players to adverse health effects, be it harmful sleeping patterns or RSI, not of players wanting to progress without playing the game. In fact, they are pretty much the exact opposite: in both cases, you very explicitly and deliberately still have to log in and manage your activities GÇö you just don't have to adjust your entire daily schedule (and health insurance) around it. Quote: You're arguing against yourself Tippia. Not really, no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15886	Posted - 2013.08.03 17:18:00 - [12] - Quote Klandi wrote: As this game (with the end game as it currently stands) CANNOT be played with one character Are you entirely sure you want to go with two false premises as the basis of your argument? Quote: Your objective is not to play the character but train it up - so this is where this concept would fit perfectly GÇªbut since you're going to be playing the game that whole time with your first character, logging in every now (very rarely, since we're talking about a whole bunch of high-rank skills here) and then to fiddle with the queue is something you'll do anyway. Taking 1 minute to do this rather than 30 seconds is such an insignificant difference that there's no real need to extend the queue and ruin the serendipitous gameplay it generates at its current length. Also, being a progressive and well-prepared person, fitting this minute task into your weekly schedule is trivial for you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 15888	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:27:00 - [13] - Quote Klandi wrote: Touch+¿ Tippia. But I do stand on first statement. Relying on people to help you get around is something that few people will do more than 3 times (assuming carrier here). So then you MUST have an extra account. When you decide to supercap, you are committing a char for that so that is again the second account job GÇªbut that's your (foolish) decision, not something you GÇ£mustGÇ¥ do, and since they're largely alliance-level assets for strategic use, supercaps in and of themselves don't require a second account. And as mentioned, if you're getting a second account, logging in to switch skill queues on your parking alt is not a problem to begin with so the argument falls flat regardless. So no, the game can be played with one character from beginning to end. Quote: So what ship symbolises near end game for Loretta? None. What symbolises the GÇ£end gameGÇ¥ is when the thought creeps into your mind that, GÇ£ehGÇª I don't care what's in my queue because it doesn't particularly matterGÇ¥ GÇö not some irrelevant detail such as a ship or a ship class. GÇªand I'm being generous there, because the concept of end-game kind of gets shot in the gut the instant it is left entirely up to you to decide. Tippia has reached her end-game three times by now (only one more leftGÇª maybeGÇª). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.

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