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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15874
   |
Posted - 2013.08.02 16:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:You overlook the fact that the skill system is a selling point and the que takes a huge bite out of a very big problem encountered with MMOs.
That problem is the "he who has the least life wins" problem. Eh, no, I'm not overlooking it. Whatever gave you that idea?  Quite the opposite: I am fully aware of that problem and of how the skill queue GÇö even at a 24h length GÇö solves that pretty much entirely. For one, I understand how the setup means that you don't have to log in every day.
Quote:Not everybody can be a neckbeard who can log on all day every day. And both the skill system and the skill queue ensures that they don't get any particular advantage (as far as character skill goes, at least).
Quote:I might have seen you in WoW No.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1410
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 16:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Tippia, you're faux arguments do get tiring after a while. What you're implying here is not what I stated, you know it, I know, others know it. Able to play, unable able to play are mutually exclusive. So yeah, it does penalize people who for reasons unto themselves are unable to play or get on every 24hrs. No, it doesn't, because the skill queue means you don't have to log in ever 24h. That's where your entire reasoning careens off the tracks. And just because it is absolutely impossible for some to get caught up that one time for some OOG reason doesn't mean that at other times, and/or for other players, that supposed Gǣquick skill changeGǥ doesn't lead to a surprise session. Quote:It's a selfish argument from you & others who somehow put a priority on the game over rl, tbh. GǪyou mean kind of like how Gǣadjust the game to how I [don't] want to play itGǥ is based on nothing but selfishness. If it's so small and quick that they stand zero change of getting caught up in the game, then it's so small and quick that doing it within 24h of the end of a skill is something that is trivially included in the day. No RL kids will be hurt in the process, I promise. GǪin fact, that's the kind of Gǣnot right nowGǥ problems the skill queue has already solved perfectly with its 24h length.
Yes, you do have to log in religiously to set your queue, especially skilling a new direction. Sure, when you get to level 4's 5's you don't but that still isn't really a reason not to extend the queue.
As to "adjust the game to how I [don't] want to play it", there are a plethora of examples where the game has been altered to this effect. The original non-queued skill training, the original click-fest that was PI, the whole HS has too much income arguement to which it has been nerfed repeatedly, the noctis, the suspect flags, the CSM for christ's sake all changes to the game to adjust it to how people want to play it. You're arguing against yourself Tippia.
HTFU!...for the children! |
Revman Zim
Grim Determination
Nulli Secunda
166
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 16:18:00 -
[63] - Quote
I am going to echo a lot of the previous posts regarding the Skill Queue.
It is fine at 24 hours.
It is MUCH better than the alarm clock days.
It forces people to actually log in to the game for skill changes, thereby creating content.
The original intent of the 24hr queue was to allow people to work, live and play without being tied to a skill change clock. That problem has been solved by the queue change and NO further changes are necessary.
If you have to move, or go on vacation, or have someother RL issue, put in Battleship 5 or some other long skill that is in your plan.
BOTTOM LINE: EVE Online would NOT be a better game if you were able to import your EVEMON skill plan into the queue and log off. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3248
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 16:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:
It forces people ...
I stopped right there.
What is the source of this trend that everybody likes seeing people getting "forced"? Is it reality TV? Is it from watching too many episodes of "COPS" ? Is it a response to learned helplessness of modern living?
We should add totalitarianism to the list of extreme mindsets that plague the world.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15874
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 16:25:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Yes, you do have to log in religiously to set your queue, especially skilling a new direction. Whenever you want for a day at the end of the current queue (or some time roughly once every other day if you're trying a new direction) doesn't strike me as particularly GÇ£religiouslyGÇ¥. It's still not every day, on the hour, as some are trying to suggest.
Quote:Sure, when you get to level 4's 5's you don't but that still isn't really a reason not to extend the queue. GǪwhich you do with the span of the 24h queue, so it's never really a problem, and the reason to extend the queue is still that it removes and reduces serendipitous gameplay.
Quote:As to "adjust the game to how I [don't] want to play it", there are a plethora of examples where the game has been altered to this effect. The original non-queued skill training, the original click-fest that was PI Not really, no. Those were examples that don't boil down to subjecting players to adverse health effects, be it harmful sleeping patterns or RSI, not of players wanting to progress without playing the game. In fact, they are pretty much the exact opposite: in both cases, you very explicitly and deliberately still have to log in and manage your activities GÇö you just don't have to adjust your entire daily schedule (and health insurance) around it.
Quote:You're arguing against yourself Tippia. Not really, no.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
brinelan
The Flying Dead
Insidious Empire
84
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 16:57:00 -
[66] - Quote
How hard is it to set a long skill to start at the end of the 24h skill queue? You can fit as many skills in the queue that will *start* within 24 hours, it dosent matter if it will end outside of that timeframe.
When I started there was no skill queue, I would train up short skills while I was playing and set something longer before logging off. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
606
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 17:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
The only thing that sometime bother me are the skill that takes just over a day to train. It sometime mess up with my IRL schedule so I've lost some SP over the months but thats barely significant in the end. 24 hours is enough. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
2560
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 17:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
brinelan wrote:How hard is it to set a long skill to start at the end of the 24h skill queue? You can fit as many skills in the queue that will *start* within 24 hours, it dosent matter if it will end outside of that timeframe.
When I started there was no skill queue, I would train up short skills while I was playing and set something longer before logging off.
How dare you suggest any amount of thought and/or effort in anything. You must be knew to these forums!  |
Welsige
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 17:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
You have the rigth to login into the game. Not the right to fill all the queue.
You may rent a Room, but to take a **** you gotta be in the room to do so.
Same logic.
I wouldnt be against a skill that would extend the queue from 24 to maybe 48 hours though.
~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Circle-Of-Two
1815
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 17:35:00 -
[70] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Tippia wrote:Klandi wrote:In the recent "Reasonable things" it touches on skill training timers and the latest proposal is to increase them to 48/72 hrs.
What are you lot thinking with? Good question. There's really no need to increase it beyond 24h. There's really no reason not to increase it either.
In application development, when no pressing reason exists for either case, the following inequality always holds sway:
Do not change code > change code just because you can
GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 19:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Klandi wrote:In the recent "Reasonable things" it touches on skill training timers and the latest proposal is to increase them to 48/72 hrs.
What are you lot thinking with? Good question. There's really no need to increase it beyond 24h.
No need ? derp
|
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
142
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 19:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:
In application development, when no pressing reason exists for either case, the following inequality always holds sway:
Do not change code > change code just because you can
So what about in app dev, if a concept that was good at the start was found later on to be a hindrance and not good for the application later on? So many apps have an involvement lifecycle where stuff changed - and change IS a reason to re-think and re-code. This is where you get the adage If it ain't broke don't fix it. When software has been around for 10yrs it IS broke!!!
I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Mr Pragmatic
584
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 19:29:00 -
[73] - Quote
I liked OPs post just so I could be cool and edgy.
Vote for me in the next CSM Elections. I will fight for the interest of all Hi-sec dwellers. No longer will you be cast aside and disparaged. |
brinelan
The Flying Dead
Insidious Empire
85
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 20:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:brinelan wrote:How hard is it to set a long skill to start at the end of the 24h skill queue? You can fit as many skills in the queue that will *start* within 24 hours, it dosent matter if it will end outside of that timeframe.
When I started there was no skill queue, I would train up short skills while I was playing and set something longer before logging off. How dare you suggest any amount of thought and/or effort in anything. You must be knew to these forums!
lol what was I thinking  |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3252
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 20:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
So it's normal for people to see a rule that they didn't pass, nor have the power to enforce, and then go running up to it, stand with it, and get off on reminding other people that the rule is the rule.
Wow.
You people prove to be pathetic. No wonder RL democracy failed. |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
144
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 20:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So it's normal for people to see a rule that they didn't pass, nor have the power to enforce, and then go running up to it, stand with it, and get off on reminding other people that the rule is the rule.
Wow.
You people prove to be pathetic. No wonder RL democracy failed.
Should a question mark be in there somewhere or are you just sounding off like what they do in a non-democratical country
I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
5718
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 20:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
I want more! I want more! And then when I get it I want more of more! More on top of more! More more more!
-áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Welsige
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
103
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 20:38:00 -
[78] - Quote
Klandi wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:
In application development, when no pressing reason exists for either case, the following inequality always holds sway:
Do not change code > change code just because you can
So what about in app dev, if a concept that was good at the start was found later on to be a hindrance and not good for the application later on? So many apps have an involvement lifecycle where stuff changed - and change IS a reason to re-think and re-code. This is where you get the adage If it ain't broke don't fix it. When software has been around for 10yrs it IS broke!!!
I dont consider a feature that demands a player to actually log in into the game broken.
Were we able to set a 1 year long queue, it would be paradise for people just creating characters to sale in the future.
Perhaps we should then skip this process and simply ask CCP to sell a Titan characters of the shelf and save everyones time.
~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
395
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 20:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
I guess if we're talking about it, and I'm sure I'll get flamed, but I'd like to see an option for PLEX for increased sp/hr for a month or so. It'd give new players a chance at skilling into a variety of ships quicker (which of course is the goal) as well as closing the gap somewhat with Vets of 10 years (although they could do the PLEX thing as well).
Flame on!
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day. |
MacKael
Segmentum Solar
Nulli Secunda
78
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 21:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
I agree the que should be increased to 14-21-60 days it doesn't matter. Like me for example I'm going to be away for around three weeks. Lucky I can train jdc5 32days. With plus 5s and attributes. But what if I wanted something on the tail end of that because you know RL can throw a curve ball at any point. And also we need 10 jump clones now not 5. We need two per level. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3983
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 21:11:00 -
[81] - Quote
Welsige wrote:You have the rigth to login into the game. Not the right to fill all the queue.
You may rent a Room, but to take a **** you gotta be in the room to do so.
Same logic.
I wouldnt be against a skill that would extend the queue from 24 to maybe 48 hours though.
Like a learning skill?
Heh
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
107
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 03:29:00 -
[82] - Quote
"Don't increase the queue! We need to "trick" people into playing the game by forcing them to log in, instead of just playing when they feel like it. This game is so terrible there would be no one to play with if we let people log in when they actually want to log in." |
Seraph Essael
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 04:07:00 -
[83] - Quote
I don't understand peoples problems with the current skill queue timer. I'm a three month old char and the majority of the skills I am now training take 8+ days now anyway.
If I train a new skill I automatically train it to three and then wack a longer, time consuming skill on the end. Why is that such an issue for other people? (That's a serious question not a flame).
My next skill to train (I have 4 days left on my current one) will be Torpedoes V which is something like 20ish days I believe.
If myself, a 3 month old player, can work my skill queue so that it goes over 24 hours, why can't other, more experienced players? Even when I was in my first week ramming small skills in left, right and centre, I always filled my queue and always made sure it was over 24 hours each time I logged in. This still happens now. Log on, make sure skill queue is over 24 hours, play, log off. (Again, serious question).
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Cauldron Asai
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 04:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
i'm just gonna say WOW.. um WHAT erm OK.. umm WHAT.. o yea WOW.. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3987
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 06:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:"Don't increase the queue! We need to "trick" people into playing the game by forcing them to log in, instead of just playing when they feel like it. This game is so terrible there would be no one to play with if we let people log in when they actually want to log in."
Works for me, got a cyno and a batphone for BL? I hear a lone titan is going to log in to update his skillqueue.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Indica Dominant
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 09:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
Klandi wrote:In the recent "Reasonable things" it touches on skill training timers and the latest proposal is to increase them to 48/72 hrs.
What are you lot thinking with?
When you rent a place you do it for a period of time and you can then choose to do whatever within that time period, live in it, not live in it etc. - as you have paid for the right.
Skill training is EXACTLY the same. I have paid for a 3/6/12 month period - why can't I set the skill training period for the same time period?
Is it because I won't log in again?
I HAVE PAID FOR THE TIME PERIOD - I SHOULD BE ABLE TO SET THE SKILL TIMING PERIOD TO WHATEVER I WANT!!!
That last sentence are for the visually impaired and the idiots that covered their ears and went " la la la la la"
Yes I'm mad - no you can't have my stuff
Flame away
By your logic a "new" player could farm out some isk buy out the skills he plans to use and then set a 3/6/9/12 month skills plan and not log in again at all until it is finished. By preventing this CCP requires you to actually PLAY THE GAME. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
558
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 12:09:00 -
[87] - Quote
A staggering number of people in this thread think "queue" is spelt "que".
Back to our regular schedule of people arguing with Tippia. :D
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
245
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 12:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
OP, this is already implemented:
fill up your skill queue with skills < 24h place a skill with 48h at the end, voila 72h skill queue. You can even extend that with longer skill at the end and get like a 2 months skill queue !! NOW WAS THAT SO HARD OP? WAS IT? |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
145
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 14:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
So here is a reasonable example to get you going with:
As this game (with the end game as it currently stands) CANNOT be played with one character, you want to train up another character to be your titan pilot - cos that's what you do in this game - right?
You open an account and find out it will take 267 days to be relatively competent in the titan of choice and it will take that long to get the mins/cash together to fit it out. But you want to make it up yourself so buying is out of the question.
Being a PROGRESSIVE and WELL PREPARED person that you are, you decide to save money and purchase a year's sub and start buying the skills.
Your objective is not to play the character but train it up - so this is where this concept would fit perfectly
So stop arguing and do it already
I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
57
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 14:56:00 -
[90] - Quote
How about a compromise. The skill queue isnt longer than 24 hours really. However like now if you put something thats 5 days over the limit you cna put one more skill on after that limit. So if you go away for 10 days you can put two 5 day skills on rahter that one 10 day skill. |
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