Honestly, I'm impressed at that man's self-defense skills. If he ever emerges from SDII custody, there may be a place for him with Hakatain Dynasty Security.

WHY THEY ALWAYS TRYIN'A KEEP A BRUTOR DOWN.

THAT'S RACIST.

Now there's a thought. Since we were nice enough to hand Broteau over to Republic justice, they can surely reciprocate by handing over members of a known terrorist organisation.

I would like to applaud the Big Four for their unity and cooperation. They certainly are showing Humanity the path forward to the future.

Nice enough to turn him over?

Sorry, what was that?

I couldn't hear your sarcasm over the sound of an invasion fleet.

There is no sound in space.

Frankly I am amazed that the security forces didn't see this coming and move to prevent it.

My fear is that they did, or may have at least some foreknowledge, and simply either chose not to or were told not to. Of course, that could be reading way too much between the lines.

So the choice is between incompetence or complicity. Delightful.

You spent longer with a badge than I did, suuolo. Wouldn't you have been on the lookout for violent troublemakers and ethnic violence?

You spent longer with a badge than I did, suuolo. Wouldn't you have been on the lookout for violent troublemakers and ethnic violence?

Now there's a thought. Since we were nice enough to hand Broteau over to Republic justice, they can surely reciprocate by handing over members of a known terrorist organisation.

You spent longer with a badge than I did, suuolo. Wouldn't you have been on the lookout for violent troublemakers and ethnic violence?

Now there's a thought. Since we were nice enough to hand Broteau over to Republic justice, they can surely reciprocate by handing over members of a known terrorist organisation.

I fail to see what you expect to be gained other than a show trial for political benefit.

Regretfully there is only one solution to the Tribal "problem" within the Federation.

a culture that depends on immigrants.

I was SWAT, not a badge. Being on the lookout for violent troublemakers and ethnic violence wasn't part of my job description.

To be clear - the Federation's culture welcomes immigrants. It does not depend on them to survive.

And only one solution to the idiocy of racial supremacists in a culture that depends on immigrants.

This sort of nonsense will only end badly, and I have taken it upon myself to deal harshly with any suspected supporters of this racist garbage that I come across, and the miners that prop up their empire of evil.

Just be careful WHICH street. What you intend to be a gesture of solidarity might be seen as a provocation.

I fail to see what you expect to be gained other than a show trial for political benefit.

Just be careful WHICH street. What you intend to be a gesture of solidarity might be seen as a provocation.

I will be in the street for Gallente-Minmatar solidarity and coexistence. I invite you to join me.

This is not about Roden, or Shakor, or the Alliance's future or lack thereof. We will not allow hatred to divide neighbours and families.

More details, times and places to follow soon.

Regretfully there is only one solution to the Tribal "problem" within the Federation.

I think Diana Kim's already head of the Genocidal Xenophobic Kool Kids' Klub, James. Keep trying though! A few more posts like this one and maybe she'll set you up as the head of the *Gallentean branch.



*Assuming she doesn't implement her own "final solution" for the "Gallentean Problem" first, that is.

But apparently there is pedantic literalism.

That you and your kin see the mass murder of entire populations in my simple comment tells us more about your mindset than mine.

But still.

Now there's a thought. Since we were nice enough to hand Broteau over to Republic justice, they can surely reciprocate by handing over members of a known terrorist organisation.

THAT'S RACIST.

You made the statement, Angel, not me. You knew damned well how what you left unsaid would be taken and it was done intentionally. Don't try projecting your nonsense onto me. At least have the courage of your convictions and stand by your words.

You say "Angel" as if its a bad thing.

You say "Angel" as if its a bad thing.

Oh that's right honest villains bother hypocrites like you and yours.

I'm trying to follow here, sir, and I have to ask. In the first line, you suggest that being an Angel is a good thing. In the second, you point out that Angels are villains - definitively bad. That an Angel may be honest (a positive trait in some circumstances) does not nullify the negativity of the term. Was this an intentional contradiction?

You made the statement, Angel, not me. You knew damned well how what you left unsaid would be taken and it was done intentionally.

It's a little more complex than Angels = Bad, I'm afraid. In between the blacks and whites of villains and good guys are the shades of grey - we can call this...the gradient!

Much of the Cartel's work lies in that area. I could list the good that the Cartel has brought to the cluster and the debt it is owed, but I fear that we are already far from the topic, so I too will not belabor a point.

February 15, YC 115.

I am still waiting, Gradient.

No word in regard to the 68. Nor anything else beyond.
If you don't actually care, i'll eventually deal with the Republic and the RSS myself. It will be curiously odd to have to point out your lack of action with regard to the variables involved, to Abja Etbald.

In any event, well understanding the nature of bureaucracy and its time frames, I give you until August 15 YC 116.

Angel is a bad thing Syagrius, no matter how you Stillwater pilots try to dress it up.

Was this an intentional contradiction?

I believe Msr. Syagrius' little 'paradox' there perfectly underlines the issue in this topic.
Bloody Hands of Matar are going around, causing havoc and mayhem, and Republicans are, in response yelling 'but but, Angels are evil!'

If out of Angels to attack ad hominem, you can also use Amarrians as your straw man there; that's the beauty of the Republican monomania when it comes to subjects that uncover them for being the pack of bloodthirsty wild dogs.

Keep barking, ms. Rella.

It's a little more complex than Angels = Bad, I'm afraid. In between the blacks and whites of villains and good guys are the shades of grey - we can call this...the gradient!

Much of the Cartel's work lies in that area. I could list the good that the Cartel has brought to the cluster and the debt it is owed, but I fear that we are already far from the topic, so I too will not belabor a point.

I believe Msr. Syagrius' little 'paradox' there perfectly underlines the issue in this topic.
Bloody Hands of Matar are going around, causing havoc and mayhem, and Republicans are, in response yelling 'but but, Angels are evil!'

Hey Caine. Go **** yourself.

The complaint about Angels being bad is completely unrelated to the actions of the Bloody Hands of Matar...

...which we have also decried as bad.

Um. I'm sorry, but no you haven't.

My my, look what crawled out of the woodwork. With naysayers like you however, I don't need sycophants. That is to say, keep proving my 'wild dogs' theory right. We'll say I owe you a drink, hm?

I'm trying to follow here, sir, and I have to ask. In the first line, you suggest that being an Angel is a good thing.

In the second, you point out that Angels are villains - definitively bad. That an Angel may be honest (a positive trait in some circumstances) does not nullify the negativity of the term.

Was this an intentional contradiction?

Angel is a bad thing Syagrius, no matter how you Stillwater pilots try to dress it up.

The Angel Cartel is the largest criminal enterprise in New Eden. Your corporation and your Cartel associates are involved in: murder, kidnapping, drug trafficking, human trafficking and slavery, prostitution, extortion and piracy. Guardian Angels aided the Serpentis attacks on Evaulon that totally destroyed the city of Rilanis, killing thousands in the process. I could go on but no need to belabor the point.

Also, get your facts straight. No one in Gradient killed any Federation citizens in Colelie. That was the work of the Republic Fleet. Of course, you know that and are attempting to turn the spotlight away from your own misdeeds.

As to your assertion that we chose our people over what was "right"; we responded to a call for assistance from a recognized government official. We acted in good faith with the limited information we had at the time. This has been explained and discussed ad nauseum in this medium so there's no need for me to say anything else on the topic. However, do feel free to continue beating this particular dead horse. The carcass may still have a few unscathed millimeters of surface area for you to work with.

Congratulations for owning up (kind of) to what you Angel supporters are but, in the end an "honest villain" (an oxymoron if ever I heard one) is still a villain.

Yes and no.

But if I may pose a question to you, are you implying that being an "Angel" makes someone "bad" in and of itself?

I'd love to stay and debate this matter with you further but, there are Angel ships and assets infecting Republic space that need to be cleared out. I'll think of you when I'm spending the bounty money, dear James. Cheers!

Also, I didn't say no one was fired upon. I said we didn't kill any Federation personnel.!

Thank you for the clarification, sir. I think I understand.


Well. If one wants to be precise, "good" and "bad" are heuristic models used by a model to predict future behaviour, which makes the question a little moot, as we're talking about separate things. However, being involved with the Angels does often get one cast into the "bad" model, as it's a predominant association, and useful for behaviour prediction.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm getting too technical. I suppose the my answer is "yes and no" also.

The man, has now been identified as Kinhar Elokur, a Republic citizen and student with the University of Caille.

A protest outside the facility where Elokur is being held numbered in the dozens, mostly consisting of fellow Minmatar. The protestors chanted and held signs advocating Elokur's immediate release.

source
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/minmatar-call-for-release-of-imprisoned-brutor-student/

Gotta say, the 'legal experts' have a point here.

Working purely from the Released Information, there's not enough to conclusively say one way or another. All we really know is that a Group of Gallente Nationals attacked a Student who was a Republic National (Not just of Matari Origin) and in the process, 3 of the Attackers were Fatally Injured.

We have no idea of how large a group were involved in the attack only that it was at least 3 and no reports of the extent of the injuries to the student.

I can immediately give 3 Scenarios that would give the result that the "Experts" are claiming to be impossible.

- The Student managed to reach a vehicle to escape. The men were fatally injured by the vehicle leaving the scene. This is most likely if there were more than the 3 Killed attackers involved in the assault

- The Attackers were Fanatics. From experience, many such groups tend to fight to the last man even when it is clear that victory, or even survival, is impossible.

- The Attackers were dosed up on Boosters. Many such drugs have the effect of both increasing aggression and reducing self preservation.

This is standard procedure. Whenever you have a bodycount you need to make sure you follow the procedure. Whether these Gallente students were the agressors or not, they have families and those families need to be reassured that all the facts of the matter were properly gone into.

The Brutor student killed three men. Unless he's a product of some outstanding school of martial arts there has to be some question about how this was achieved. There also has to be some question as to what point he used lethal force to defend himself - was he capable of withdrawing? Had the confrontation become physical already, or was it at the pushing and shouting stage? Did the three persist in their efforts to attack him until the end, or did they try and withdraw, with him pursuing and killing them? Did the Brutor use an illegal weapon to defend himself?

All these questions must be ascertained. It is quite possible for the Brutor student to have been defending himself and yet to have broken the law egregiously. If he has broken the law, then he should be served with due process.

Deaths are always delicate, Katarina. In my opinion suspicions are best laid to rest by investigating - business as usual.

I meant politically delicate, but yes, I agree. I just hope the investigators are both impartial and forthcoming.

I meant politically delicate, but yes, I agree. I just hope the investigators are both impartial and forthcoming.

And I'm sure that if the investigators aren't suitably forthcoming, the Republican Fleet will be.

This is standard procedure. Whenever you have a bodycount you need to make sure you follow the procedure. Whether these Gallente students were the agressors or not, they have families and those families need to be reassured that all the facts of the matter were properly gone into.

The Brutor student killed three men. Unless he's a product of some outstanding school of martial arts there has to be some question about how this was achieved. There also has to be some question as to what point he used lethal force to defend himself - was he capable of withdrawing? Had the confrontation become physical already, or was it at the pushing and shouting stage? Did the three persist in their efforts to attack him until the end, or did they try and withdraw, with him pursuing and killing them? Did the Brutor use an illegal weapon to defend himself?

All these questions must be ascertained. It is quite possible for the Brutor student to have been defending himself and yet to have broken the law egregiously. If he has broken the law, then he should be served with due process.

I hope politics is kept out of it as far as possible. That's the only way to MAKE this impartial.

This is a complex investigation with many facets that need to be examined minutely. Give the investigators time and the space they need to do their jobs. If it's any consolation, I would consider the Brutor student to be a vital person of interest in the case and would also have had him detained.

It's far too easy to slip onto a shuttle and be across the border.

Hmm. Considering the empires have a habit of evaporating hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over small slights and outright power grabs, I'm somewhat surprised that it became news that someone killed three people.

We can always be optimistic. Perhaps three murders being newsworthy means we have shifted our perspective if ever so slightly.

We can but hope, though I imagine it will be because one or other of these people are in someway important. I must admit, one person being able to take down three is a little suspect. I could do it and I'm sure other people could too, but I'd still wonder how it happened, unless he had a weapon of some description. I'd also question self defence required the killing of all three unless they were likewise armed. However as Mr Tuulinen says, we must wait for the investigation to be complete and reveal its findings.

True enough, though I would not be so impressed by the numbers. It would depend, quite a bit, on who those three were. I have had some amount of formal combat training, so it would hardly be difficult for me to kill three unarmed civilians, no matter how belligerent or what I was armed with.

I suppose that, in the case your theory is correct, we can assume one of three things is suspicious. Either he killed someone important enough to warrant an investigation into whether it was well and truly self defense (empires tend to dig until they find the evidence they want to find about their favored sons), he managed to kill three people that no average citizen should have the capacity to kill (such as well-trained riot teams or soldiers) and thus they are questioning his amateur status, or Gallente and Matari relations have fallen to the point where even cases of reported self defense warrant deep investigation.

Either way, hopefully we can all look forward to days when political outcry rabbles over three deaths. We had an industrial mining accident not far from Amarr that killed ten slaves and their handler. That didn't even make the local headline.

Hmm. Considering the empires have a habit of evaporating hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over small slights and outright power grabs, I'm somewhat surprised that it became news that someone killed three people.

I've been doing my own investigating, and biding my time hoping this young brother would be set free, but no, still chained, well I have to do something about that as promised.

So today I took a small team and hunted down a supposed journalist from the Scope who, in my opinion, had failed to do any real investigation into this sorry tale, instead preferring to moonlight as a miner in Balle whilst submitting corporate fluff pieces as content. So he got Ganqued, his Mackinaw and Pod were put to the torch. No doubt he is waking up with a headache today.

I can only say this will continue as long as my Brutor brother is held captive.

Peace out.

You realise, of course, that you have just slaughtered a fair percentage of the crew of that Mackinaw? Someone, somewhere, knows the names and numbers of those dead men and women and will be seeking out Brutor corpses to balance the scales.

Vigilante Justice is not Justice. It breeds response and escalation. There are many who say that the Matari will NEVER know peace for so long as they cannot act according to civilised norms.

Let the authorities deal with it.

Congrats, you've managed to give the inbred U-Nats a Casus Belli to continue to discriminate and commit acts of violence against your people.

Remind me to kill a Brutor in the name of common sense, would someone?

Peace out.