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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.20 04:20:00 -
[61]
Ohh, yea, that must clearly mean that drone users are overpowered, and not maybe that the Raven just sucks. I don't fly a Raven, I don't care about the Raven. To me it's just another example of "Every ship that depends on Highslot fitted weapons gets a dronebay, so that must mean that every ship with a giant dronebay must also use highslot fitted weaponry"
I mean has anyone ever stopped to think that Drone-hangars should have been a highslot fitted item from the beginning, and nobody should be able to even launch drones without them? If this is about weapons then THAT would be balance - not this stupid crap where how many drones you can fit in your ship determines how good it is as a droneship, and the only way to do any better then that is via a direct ship bonus that magically makes your drones more powerful...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.20 04:40:00 -
[62]
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/12/2005 04:41:51
"Ohh, yea, that must clearly mean that drone users are overpowered, and not maybe that the Raven just sucks. I don't fly a Raven, I don't care about the Raven. To me it's just another example of "Every ship that depends on Highslot fitted weapons gets a dronebay, so that must mean that every ship with a giant dronebay must also use highslot fitted weaponry""
... Did you really not get the point i was trying to make? :<
last time try:
* you say that you want Dominix to be a ship able to kill targets using drones only, without need for any high-slot weapons and/or NOS
* am pointing out to you that Dominix with its 5 drones is already the ship you ask to have. It can do as much damage with just these drones as regular, heavy missile battleship that's considered to be about best in close range encounters can do with her missiles and drones. And you don't need to put any weapons or anything in high slots of your Dominix for that. You can put drone-related modules there, or even leave them empty if you want. And all you need to train is your drone related skills.
basically, you already have the ability to do what you want, and you ask to have that doubled because you are under impression your ship "ain't there yet". But it is :/
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.12.20 04:45:00 -
[63]
j0sephine,
by the way you just put it, a Domi with 5 medium remote repairers (one per drone) would be an excellent setup!
haha i love it!  pmsl...
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Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.20 04:48:00 -
[64]
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/12/2005 04:49:30
... damn. As long as you take time to have your drones targeted in advance, or after you drop on someone... that's crazy just enough to possibly work well o,O;
edit: how would that be called, though... reppa-domi? :P
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.12.20 04:50:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 20/12/2005 04:51:57
I remember that Pottsey posted a similar setup a really long time ago, also involving a cloak IIRC. 
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Check for updates/known issues, feedback welcome. |
jamesw
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Posted - 2005.12.20 05:09:00 -
[66]
hmm lets get into this..... the new ogres are close to 1000 armour hit points alone, which gives a nice buffer...
The cap use on Medium is a bit much, but Small named remote reppers do up to 156 hp / 8 seconds... thats enough to seriously prolong the lives of all 5 drones versus 1 large smartbomb, or to sustain one drone with 5 reps if it is under direct attack.
iiiiinteresting..... 
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Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.20 05:16:00 -
[67]
Sounds interesting, but the range on repairers is extremly low...
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.12.20 05:21:00 -
[68]
 Originally by: Noriath
Oh no, my uber Domi which can get its weapons shot off and then doesn't have any benefit from its oh so evil tank, doesn't do instant damage, and now can't even deal damage to a small ship ship with the same drones that I need for a big one, so if I could launch 10 drones I could only have one set of heavies. And also will totally be able to do EW and have hardeners for a tank while fitting 375 CPU worth of controll modules, because it has infinity CPU - and all that after L5ing a Rank 8 skill...
Welcome to the world of missile "balance" :P
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.20 05:40:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Noriath on 20/12/2005 05:41:10
Well, I don't use missiles, if that so called "balance" sucks missile users have to speak out against it.
One thing I know for sure though is that missiles were a lot better then drones for mission running before, which was a big part of the reason for the change.
Drones on the other hand never were first choice of weapon for anything but nos-setups before...
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2005.12.20 07:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Noriath
That toally sucks... Now The Dominix is still just an overglorified Gank/Nos ship...
rather than being just an overpowered gankship?
see why theyve done it?
They didnt exactly break their necks to fix a gankageddon now did they, and tbh, thats still as deadly now only with more options available to it.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace?
Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.20 08:48:00 -
[71]
Well that would certainly explain why everyone is so afraid of a ship that does more damage... 
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Zungen
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Posted - 2005.12.20 09:00:00 -
[72]
well as the stats say for now, drone control units has 75k powergrid but dmg mods do not
so fitting 5 drone dmg mod will be just as great if not better than fitting 5 drone control units because your drones will be hitting as hard as if there was 30 of them when your only flying with 5
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Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.12.20 09:13:00 -
[73]
This was my amusing Sisi setup:
5x Drone Control Mod's
1x Heavy Diminishing Nosferatu
1x Sensor Booster II
3x Phased Muon RSD
1x 20km Scrambler
1x Large Accom
3x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten plates
2x Energised Adaptive nano membranes
1x Internal force field array (58% i.e. almost tech II)
10 Ogre II's +1 spare
20 Hobgoblin II's
933 DPS, with over 18K of armour, resistances almost reaching 80/55/70/70 and a full suite of EW. Obliterated everything from frigates/cruisers to multiple Battleships (simultaneously) and even a foolhardy Phoenix Dreadnought that kept picking on the survivors of a Titan superweapon, 
...note this thing could survive a superweapon blast with ~50% armour intact
nope, nothing overpowered here *whistles*à.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.20 10:01:00 -
[74]
If it's overpowered balance it, don't just remove it...
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.20 10:11:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Sentani on 20/12/2005 10:11:23
how about giving that control module a 5% damage penalty ?
thats 25% for 5 mods and about 900 DPS.... in line with the rest of the present gank ships...
and maybe make a penalty free one for the titans...
personaly think this is a great idea....
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The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.20 10:32:00 -
[76]
Sounds good... Introduce two types of Drone controll mods, one with the 75000 Grid, one with 750 grid that reduces overall drone damage enough to keep it in line with what is reasonable...
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Josarian Lysandor
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Posted - 2005.12.20 10:36:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Sentani
Edited by: Sentani on 20/12/2005 10:11:23
how about giving that control module a 5% damage penalty ?
thats 25% for 5 mods and about 900 DPS.... in line with the rest of the present gank ships...
and maybe make a penalty free one for the titans...
personaly think this is a great idea....
Is that pre or post RMR gank ships?
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer. |
Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.20 10:37:00 -
[78]
ive heard the gankageddon gets 900 DPS in RMR...
pre-RMR it had like 1200
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The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.20 11:54:00 -
[79]
guess i killed the discusion...
bump becouse its a great idea...
____________
The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.20 19:32:00 -
[80]
Well can anyone get the numbers on that?
Of course you killed the discussion, as soon as it turns constructive nobody knows what to say anymore...
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skandalf
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Posted - 2005.12.20 20:03:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Noriath
That toally sucks... Now The Dominix is still just an overglorified Gank/Nos ship...
Screw this, I thought this change would acctually allow you to make a pure drone ship, now you need a freakin Carrier to be free of Guns and Nos...
I think i'm gonna cancel my account, I feel like CCP betrayed me by swiching that in the last second...
welcome to the world of ccp they promise us everything and give us half measures, ahhh some things never change im just waiting for the nerf noobs start yelling about unbalance and unfairness it will be drones getting nerfed again soon or some other important gameplay aspect, great stuff i cant wait
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.21 01:15:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Noriath
Well can anyone get the numbers on that?
Of course you killed the discussion, as soon as it turns constructive nobody knows what to say anymore...
damnit 
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The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.21 02:43:00 -
[83]
Edited by: j0sephine on 21/12/2005 02:43:27
"Well can anyone get the numbers on that?"
Well, didn't think either of you was actually serious when suggesting that, but...
if each drone control module induced 5% penalty to drone damage, this could result in either 25% damage penalty with max number of modules (for x * 5% approach) or ~27.6% penalty (for 1.05^x approach) ... i'll go with the former:
raw damage, presuming maxed out skills, tech.2 drones and 3x tech.2 drone damage mods fitted -- to make the comparison easier with previously given numbers
* 5 drones: 750 dps
* 6 drones: 855 dps, 14% increase from previous
* 7 drones: 945 dps, 11% increase from previous, for 26% total boost
* 8 drones: 1020 dps, 8% increase from previous, for 36% total boost
* 9 drones: 1080 dps, 6% increase from previous, for 44% total boost
* 10 drones: 1125 dps, 4% increase from previous, for 50% total boost
... the maxed out damage exceeds that of second best battleship by ~10% Given the tendency of drones to literally go and screw each other rather than fight, and the ability to kill them, the trade-off feels almost sensible. The potential issue is the ability of such ship to fit just 3 of drone controls, and be able to use 3x cap neutralizer/drained in addition to dealing as much damage as second best ship, on top of being able to run very tight tank. Getting back to the poor Raven example, such Dominix is torpedo Raven with 50% more damage and much higher ability to suck you dry.
Very nasty. but almost reasonable. maybe even worth testing, for that matter ;s
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.12.21 02:48:00 -
[84]
Oh wow, when we can convince you then this might just make sense...
As far as the raven is concerned, if it sucks so bad it really needs changing I think...
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Rigsta
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Posted - 2005.12.21 04:02:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: Noriath
This is total bullcrap, this was the only thing that I was really looking forward to in this patch, finally being able to acctually have a ship that is fittet for drones, and not just a ship that comes with a large dronebay and has to fit guns and nos to make it work...
Welcome to EvE, where the devs aran't ACTUALLY as insane as their SiSi testing would suggest!
I did have quite a bit of fun on Sisi before they change those control modules (and afterwards, but not as much )
Seeing "kill the domi" in local was quite gratifying 
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My Ideas:
Drones wish list <-- 2 years old. I always knew the voice w |
Kldraina
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Posted - 2005.12.21 05:54:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Kldraina on 21/12/2005 06:01:34
Edited by: Kldraina on 21/12/2005 05:59:47
Here is how you make drone control units available to the dominix without breaking the game:
+1 drone controlled
-20% drone damage
Tech 2 might be
+1 drone controlled
-15% drone damage
Or something similar. This adresses the problem of "I want more drones" without making the Domi an uber gank ship.
Biggest problem: This could make the Domi very good at using EW drones.
Edit: actually the damage penalties would need to be lower for it to be worth equipping for anything other than getting additional support/ew drones. At -20% damage, damage output is being reduced. Even at -15%, equipping 1 only increases damage by 2% and equipping more will reduce damage output. |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.21 07:20:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Burrito Supreme
First of all, why shouldnt a drone ship be able to do good damage? Arma, Mega, Pest and even Apoc and Raven can do 1000+ DPS if fitted for it and skills are maxed. With the Domi, max skills was required to achieve damage that other BS's have the ability to inflict.
How'd you get a Raven to deal 1000dps? Rage Torpedos and 2 scorpions with mids full of t2 painters?
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Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.21 07:33:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Noriath
Affordability is not the issue, more the fact that they are completly unfit for solo gameplay, and right now I'm just not part of a larger group that could provide the kind of backup a carrier needs...
Welcome to MMOs, these are games where 'soloplay' isn't really the goal of the developer, so those types of peopel can expect the short end of the stick, this goes double for EVE players.
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Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
Fortior
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:10:00 -
[89]
Originally by: skandalf
Originally by: Noriath
That toally sucks... Now The Dominix is still just an overglorified Gank/Nos ship...
Screw this, I thought this change would acctually allow you to make a pure drone ship, now you need a freakin Carrier to be free of Guns and Nos...
I think i'm gonna cancel my account, I feel like CCP betrayed me by swiching that in the last second...
welcome to the world of ccp they promise us everything and give us half measures, ahhh some things never change im just waiting for the nerf noobs start yelling about unbalance and unfairness it will be drones getting nerfed again soon or some other important gameplay aspect, great stuff i cant wait
Wait.... You base your future style of play based on SiSi, the TEST server? And then you whine that stuff being tested wasn't balanced enough for TQ? Comedy gold I tell you, comedy gold!
People need to be reminded of SiSi's purpose.
Originally by: Lecture on "Law in Our Society", Uppsala University
Adherence [to the law] is thusly less based on the addressee's enthusiasm over wise decisions but more so the insight of unpleasant conseque |
Fortior
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:12:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Fortior on 21/12/2005 11:12:33
Silly double post.
Originally by: Lecture on "Law in Our Society", Uppsala University
Adherence [to the law] is thusly less based on the addressee's enthusiasm over wise decisions but more so the insight of unpleasant conseque |
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