| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Abigail101
   |
Posted - 2005.12.22 08:27:00 -
[31]
Eight level 4 agents since Shiva with not a peep... ironically one level 3 agent from Castor (pretty much all you could do) and I got offered a bpo the day before Shiva released - you've never seen anyone rush to visit an agent and make sure that bpo was in my hold juuust in case Shiva messed it up
This makes me one of the lucky ones so it would be wrong for me to go on about not having received anything since (definately not got the "multiple" bug here), but I know dedicated maxed out researchers who do the agent missions and everything for no reward... I feel for those guys
|
Xune
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 08:29:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Choobakka
The system is ok. Running several agents for a year can give you a bpo. For the corporations the situation is even better. Either one of the members can win a bpo or your corp can just buy a bpo from someone.
Alt-time ?
I run / agents for several year¦s and i know many more who never even got a toiletpaper tech2 bpo..... and then you look up and see people geting 3 or 7 bpo¦s... thats simply wrong.
And no... not 1 agent in a starship field.
|
Prince Maximus
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 12:05:00 -
[33]
Congratulations Trevedian on getting 7 T2 BPO's
Typical EVE 
|
ArchenTheGreat
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 12:13:00 -
[34]
If I refuse Angel Extravaganza next mission offered by my agent is always another Angel Extravaganza (it doesn't work third time, after waiting 4 hours I get another mission). If BPO lottery is based on the same pseudo-random number generator no wonder it is screwed.
But I think a whole idea of lottery is wrong from one single reason: limited BPO number for each item. Items BPO should be constantly feeded into EVE. So if there are enough people researching for Ishtar BPO we will end with really cheap Ishtars. Of course those who got BPO first would have an edge. But it would be no "I win" button like there is now.
|
MachZERO
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 12:42:00 -
[35]
It's my guess that the devs ignore any thread with the word "BPO" anywhere in the title or body of the posts. Don't much blame them as these posts pop up every time new T2 BPO's are seeded into eve.
I have just over 300k rp's and still, nadda.
I don't see papasmurf really letting us in on exactly how it works either.
Here are the 2 ways I see it probably working:
1) Agents are randomized. And a winner is chosen out of that particular agents RP pool. So basically only ppl running that agent in that field have a chance of getting a BPO this time around based on the nuber of RP's they have.
or...
2) All RP "tickets" are pooled and randomized in each field and lucky winners are drawn from that uber-pool. Thus meaning that everyone doing research in that field has a chance of winning.
Common sense tells me that number 2 is what's used. But the more people that end up with multiple BPO offers leads me to believe that a system like number 1 is at work.
All in all... grats to the latest winners...
---------------------------------------------
"Rang Rang"
--------------------------------------------- |
Mafarrico
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 14:38:00 -
[36]
Now i believe it is a lottery. I won a L Null BPO (thats Large tech II blaster ammo) from the only agent i kept (for ages, no missions ran). Lvl 3 agent with around 30k RP's.
But then again, the 19th December was my birthday, so maybe there IS a pattern...
|
xenorx
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 14:57:00 -
[37]
I hate the current lottery system just like everyone else. I think the thing that bothers me most about it is the fact that the system is an "all or nothing propositon". Either you get a BPO in the first couple of days of thier release or you have no chance of ever getting anything until ccp releases something new in 6-12 months.
The players who get lucky in the lottery are secure in thier monopoly in that there will never be any compitition in the future. Prices will always remain stupidly high because the damand far outstrips the ability of the BPO owner to keep up with it. Besides the fact that there is no reason to lower prices because there is no compition for his products.
The system needs to change so that more ppl have an opportunity to have some fun too. Here is what I think should happen.
1. Have BPC offers from R&D agents for a portion of your RP.
Very much like the current loyalty point system. Make them max run copies with an average material efficency. This would help reduce the overall amount of the forever growing research point pool as well as give ppl some hope that they have not wasted thier time running R&D missions. The reduced overall R&D points would also give the die hard hold outs a better chance of finally getting a BPO in the long run. It would also make running those R&D agents worthwile too.
2. Release new BPO's every month or two.
In the current system if you dont get a BPO in the first few days of release you are not going to get anything at all. If they released more BPO's into the system over time ppl would be far less bitter about the system because they would finally have some hope of getting that BPO. The increased number of BPO would finally add more compitition and availability to the market.
|
Tresh Keen
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 15:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: franny
ways to help
1) completely revamp the lotto, so it is actually random
I dont know if its correct english - but random has no memory. Like in Lotto - the chance that the numbers are the same every week is allways the same.
Cheers, Tresh
|
Nightblade
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 17:39:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tresh Keen
Originally by: franny
ways to help
1) completely revamp the lotto, so it is actually random
I dont know if its correct english - but random has no memory. Like in Lotto - the chance that the numbers are the same every week is allways the same.
Cheers, Tresh
Of course that's mathematically true, but from external observation you'd expect to see a constant distribution of results over the entire range.
Otherwise by your method you could never tell the difference between them using a random generator that always returns the number 1, one that uses a standard rand() seeded with the current time, or one that uses a kernel entropy random generator that's sufficient for encryption (which is what I hope they use).
Based on the results here I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't doing something completely retarded like seeding the generator with a constant before doing the lottery. That sure would explain the same set of people getting the same BPOs over and over ...
And you can add me to the '10 agents, no BPOs, ever' pile.
|
Illuvitar
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 18:27:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Illuvitar on 22/12/2005 18:32:18
Originally by: Alvara
And unfortunately most long time players consider it a joke, and that you have to be a dev favorite to get a BPO.
Though I can also see technical reasons how the same person keeps gettin gpicked while others dont. Say a bad random number generator, that tends to pick numbers in the same regions repeatedly, and therefore if you aren't in such regions your chance to get a BPO is far less then someone in those regions. This last bit is just guess work, I would have to analyze there R&D lottery code to truly know one way or another.
I think you hit it on the nose, but like you said it's just a guess and the luck of some players could be just coincidence. However until something more tangable in awarding BPO's is created we will always be skeptical of a lottery. |
Maggot
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 20:43:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Of course that's mathematically true, but from external observation you'd expect to see a constant distribution of results over the entire range.
Nope, you would expect to see something like a binomial distribution with a very small chance of success. A huge number will get nothing, a few will get 1, and a small number will get more than 1.
|
Nightblade
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 21:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Maggot
Quote:
Of course that's mathematically true, but from external observation you'd expect to see a constant distribution of results over the entire range.
Nope, you would expect to see something like a binomial distribution with a very small chance of success. A huge number will get nothing, a few will get 1, and a small number will get more than 1.
I was referring to it choosing a number that's indexed into the pool of RP tickets. They should be choosing a random number between [1,total number of RP in the system].
Of course, what you're saying is correct for each individual character-agent relationship.
|
Miri Tirzan
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 21:39:00 -
[43]
I got 8 Tech 2 BPOs in the first 14 months and nothing in the last 10. Oh, and I have 4 or 5 in all areas I research and RPM 5 with six agents.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Xune
|
Posted - 2005.12.22 22:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
I got 8 Tech 2 BPOs in the first 14 months and nothing in the last 10. Oh, and I have 4 or 5 in all areas I research and RPM 5 with six agents.
*wants to barf*
|
Don Hicks
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 00:40:00 -
[45]
eeeha - got t2 bpo .... on Singularity 
I have 600k rp in total, 400k in Caldari Starship and NOTHING ( except for t2 bpo on Sigularity).
And then i hear ppl get 7 offers or more offers... no comments
Just few questions - maybe im doing something wrong:
1. Do I have to do all bloody mission for these agents ??? and if i don't does it affect my chances of getting bpo
2. Is it possible to have an offer and not get an evemail?
|
Stregone
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 02:41:00 -
[46]
Random number generators are easy in MMOs. You can have it spit out numbers in perfect sequence and the randomness of players requesting numbers from it will make it random. So many requests so quickly from so many different people, to any one person it could seem to be a real rng.
|
Trelennen
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 03:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Stregone
Random number generators are easy in MMOs. You can have it spit out numbers in perfect sequence and the randomness of players requesting numbers from it will make it random. So many requests so quickly from so many different people, to any one person it could seem to be a real rng.
Well, it could not work, even if it'd really give a real random distribution, for R&D lottery, as there's no player requests. When a new BPO is released, a ticket is randomly picked to determine the winner, so it can't apply. But there's a lot of good and efficient random generator numbers which gives better random numbers and are more time efficient than the basic rand(). Still, if they are seeded with a constant and are reseeded for each lottery, then they are completely predictable, as with the same seed, with most random generators, you'll get the same 'random' numbers list.
Anyway, as we don't know how it is handled in EVE, there's no much point of discussing random generation methods. But there is one eveident thing: the end result is definitely not random, not even close, which hints a default in implementation.
Originally by: DarK
The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...
|
JeanLuc Picarde
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 04:54:00 -
[48]
Edited by: JeanLuc Picarde on 23/12/2005 04:56:17
ya know, I got all excited as a newer player about the prospect of becoming a R&D agent runner, but after reading countless posts from folks with HUNDREDS of thousands of RP getting jack sqaut for YEARS makes me wonder why I would bother,seems like a truly flawed system, anything that caters to "luck" instead of a risk * labor = reward is pure BS and Ive always loathed it as a development copout to avoid balance and economy issues, in all likelihood Im going to completely aviod this part of play, which to be blunt kind of ****es me off, I WAS looking forward to it :(
|
Archbishop
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 05:28:00 -
[49]
We'll I've gotten two T2 BPO's (last year) both for small laser turrets, both from the same agent about a week apart. Figure that out. I've got 5 RD agents with 2 in starship and 2 in laser and 1 in hydrosomething and only one agent has come thru. They're only L2 agents because I hate running missions and never went further. Around 25k-50k points for each so not alot.
But after winning one then getting another a week later with about 300 points I'm totally baffled by the lottery. I still don't like it.
Its basically a cash machine for people. One of my corp mates did get a new HAC cruiser BPO today so as a corp we're happy and I'm happy for him (hes a nice guy who works hard already making one T2 Hac now has another). He won it with 130k points on an Amarrian starship agent. It is possible.
I'd much rather see more BPC's handed out to more people rather then a few BPO's that instantly make people multi-billionares. Seeing a HULK sell for 700m on escrow yesterday and knowing despite a ton of work the most I can see on an Apoc sale in profit is 5-8m just makes me shake my head. It just isn't right.
This coming from someone who has won twice already.
Give us BPC's, you can make them 1 run to 20 run so theres a "bonus" for some, but give them to more people so we all get something. Throw us a bone. Seeing people here with two YEARS of nothing is very sad. These people worked hard on agent whoring to build up to that point and get the RD agents and they basically have nothing to show for it.
The RD system never should've been agent based in the first place. We should've had a valid RD Scientist career track with lab experiments for breakthrus (like real life). There is still time to fix this as there are 4-5 more patches coming to Eve in the future (per EON article about Kali). Give us an RD system that gives everyone something. Throw us a bone and reward us we've been patient and have worked hard. Those who have been waiting up to two years deserve something.
Archie 
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Theodore Gross
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 06:17:00 -
[50]
I dont see why people even bother complaining about it...
you know they wont do anything about it to change it
seen loads of this post on the forum .. none has ever even been replyed with a post from ccp/devs itself...
simply put:.. they dont care.
|
Bermag
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 08:48:00 -
[51]
People always blame random generators for not giving random results. Yes I know that it is not treu random but in reality it is. The same random generator is probably used for generating other random numbers making the probability to get the same random number for BPS lottery very low.
However that might not rule out that there are other flows in the BPO lottery. It might be some bugs with how the number of lottery tickets is generated from RP etc.
But it might work as intended as well which studying the results might show.
That someone get several BPO offers is still possible even if there are many that never get any offers. But it is the few persosn who get more than one offer that we remember.
Other factors might be that those persons have several agents, researching in fields which are not so hot with less people researching.
Anyway, I do think the BPO system is bad. I got pretty disappointed to hear that most BPOs have already been seeded and not that many (except for new stuff) will be inserted in game.
I think that BPOs should be limited (in how many items you can make from it). Or maybe there shoudl be both offers for unlimited and limited BPOs. I think a limited BPO rather than a BPC would be better since you can research on a BPO.
|
Felicity Glimmer
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 09:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Archbishop
We'll I've gotten two T2 BPO's (last year) both for small laser turrets, both from the same agent about a week apart. Figure that out. I've got 5 RD agents with 2 in starship and 2 in laser and 1 in hydrosomething and only one agent has come thru. They're only L2 agents because I hate running missions and never went further. Around 25k-50k points for each so not alot.
But after winning one then getting another a week later with about 300 points I'm totally baffled by the lottery. I still don't like it.
Its basically a cash machine for people. One of my corp mates did get a new HAC cruiser BPO today so as a corp we're happy and I'm happy for him (hes a nice guy who works hard already making one T2 Hac now has another). He won it with 130k points on an Amarrian starship agent. It is possible.
I'd much rather see more BPC's handed out to more people rather then a few BPO's that instantly make people multi-billionares. Seeing a HULK sell for 700m on escrow yesterday and knowing despite a ton of work the most I can see on an Apoc sale in profit is 5-8m just makes me shake my head. It just isn't right.
This coming from someone who has won twice already.
Give us BPC's, you can make them 1 run to 20 run so theres a "bonus" for some, but give them to more people so we all get something. Throw us a bone. Seeing people here with two YEARS of nothing is very sad. These people worked hard on agent whoring to build up to that point and get the RD agents and they basically have nothing to show for it.
The RD system never should've been agent based in the first place. We should've had a valid RD Scientist career track with lab experiments for breakthrus (like real life). There is still time to fix this as there are 4-5 more patches coming to Eve in the future (per EON article about Kali). Give us an RD system that gives everyone something. Throw us a bone and reward us we've been patient and have worked hard. Those who have been waiting up to two years deserve something.
Archie
Your friend didnt win a hac, he won the curse, its the same bpo i won 2 days before, funnily enough, i won the curse bpo with 130k in amarr starship, and your mate won it 2 days later with 130k aswell.
|
Dr Brains
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 09:47:00 -
[53]
CCP will never admit having screwed up. 7 BPO offers can't be luck anymore. If they admit this, 10k people will cancel subscription.
I'm paying for my RD char for almost 2 years now, have 5 maxed RD agents, getting maxed RP/day and haven't got ****. But you know this story...
This is some serius bull**** and i want a devs comment on this. I demand it as a paying customer.
|
Maric
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 10:20:00 -
[54]
I belive too that random generator is a problem. I have 5 R&D agents. First time I receive "Tracking Enhancer" BPO in May 04 from lvl2 agent in Machanical Engineering department. Next time it was "125mm Gatling Autocannon" BPO in November 04 from same agent, same division. Then, I think I made biggest EVE mistake - change division for that agent. Since then - nothing. Other 4 agents are top lvl3 and average lvl4 agents.
|
Vargrh
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 10:30:00 -
[55]
I've noticed and that the same dozen or so players seem to get the best tech II BPO in game each time theres a new release, now either something is wrong with the lottery or people pretend to get BPO they dont actually have, and instead buy them up with alts and pretend it dropped to make it sound cooler then buying it.
|
Jeewee
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 11:17:00 -
[56]
Did you see how much ppl are willing to pay for T2 BPO's on the Sell orders forum ? I bet those are the ppl who already have 1 or more T2 BPO's who can afford to buy another BPO to make even more isks, and so on, and so on... I do believe it's a random lottery system, but not random enuff when you see that several players get multiple BPO's.
And ehm...I too have been running agents for over 2 years (4 of them) and still haven't seen much, except the Grav Backup Array when it was released. I sold this one when it became kinda non-profit.
|
Levin Cavil
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 11:22:00 -
[57]
To all of you disappointed with the current R&D system I encourage you to check out this thread.
Tech 2 Suggestion |
Kittara
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 14:40:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Trevedian
2005.12.20 12:38
Our research has been fruitful. If you're interested, I believe we could have a patentable Scorch M Blueprint. Contact me as
soon as possible if you're interested.
Woot, this is my 7th Tech 2 BPO Offer
I just want you to tell me the paypal address that you have for CCP that way I can make my LARGE contribution so that I may get some BPO thrown my way. If you can please email me at
Kitt@WTFcanI_GetaBPO_CCP.com
Thank you man..
Best wishes to all of you
All I ever want to do is have some "Insert Corp Name Here" |
franny
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 15:27:00 -
[59]
/me offers 1st born son for T2 BPOS
he's cute, mostly self sufficent, slightly opinionated
this is a joke, please take it as such, or my other half will kill me
|
ShadowStrike
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 18:05:00 -
[60]
The way i think the lottery work is as follow:
All RP's in a category are added together, separated by agents for each players
1-24978 Agent A (which has 24978 RPs) of Player Joe
24979-51867 Agent B (which has 26889 RPs) of Player Joe
51868-71432 Agent C (which has 19565 RPs) of Player Joe
71433-78175 Agent D (which has 6743 RPs) of Player Danna
78176-89698 Agent E (which has 11523 RPs) of Player Gordon
89699-124840 Agent F (which has 35142 RPs) of player Gordon
etc...
A random number between 1 and 124840 (total RPs) would then be selected randomly and the player with the agent selected would be offered the BPO
so, if the random number is 42943, Agent B would offer the BPO to player Joe
Now, imagine this system, but with thousands of players
┌-------------------------------------------------┐
ª You currently have 34,287,435 Brain Cells ª
└-------------------------------------------------┘ |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |