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McBustacrunk
State Protectorate
Caldari State
0
   |
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
After playing for a few months, I've become somewhat familiar with EVE's lore and science, but I don't think I've yet found an explanation for the limited use of warp drives.
As far as I understand, warp drives allow FTL travel by creating a series of vacuums in front of the ship, etc., reaching speeds that are measured in Astronomical Units per second. 1 AU per second would be about 500 times faster than the speed of light. Also, objects operating under a warp drive don't become ephemeral, because ships flying with MWDs active can still physically interact with other ships. So if all these assumptions are true, then why aren't warp drives ever utilized as kinetic weapons?
For instance, in the Empyrean Age trailer, some guy crashes a Nyx into a station at subwarp speeds, but the station survives relatively intact. If the guy in the Nyx had simply kept his warp drive on for an infinitesimal fraction of a second longer, then the station would have been literally and completely obliterated. Hell, someone could just strap a warp drive onto a missile and destroy any ship that has a large gravity field in one hit. I mean, even a frigate is capable of destroying a planet if it was travelling at a fraction of the speed of light. Warp drive missiles would pretty much obsolete every rule of conventional warfare in EVE, expanding maximum ranges from kilometers to solar systems.
Even if there's something like an EVE Geneva Convention to prevent the weaponization of warp drives, there are factions such as the rogue drones and Sansha's Nation that would hardly bother with the ethics WMDs.
TL;DR - Why can't ships warp into planets, stations, or other ships? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3158
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because it's a game.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Jassmin Joy
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Legion
176
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because this is a game, And in the interest of the game staying alive there are boundys and lines. |
McBustacrunk
State Protectorate
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP spends so much effort on immersion and verisimilitude that you'd think they would try to explain it at some point  |
Xavier Higdon
Breakwater Holding Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Because while the warp drive is active their mass is dropped to near absolute zero. If they maintained the same mass they would be unable to accelerate to those speeds. Attempting to exit warp at those speeds would result in the ship shredding itself as its atoms revert back to normal mass. The larger the ship, the greater the effect, so a Nyx might go so far as to tear a part atom by atom, creating a beautiful corona as those atoms dissipate their energy and static charge on the station's shields but doing no actual damage. A smaller ship might shred in a manner that creates larger pieces, effectively sand blasting the target, but that would likely not be enough to damage the structure. |
Na Und
Galactronics
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Velator takes-down Bhaalgorn. Film at 11. |
Therese Amsel
Balkenkreuz
22
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's not how warp drives work, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. |
Darth Peaches
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Because the flux capacitors are cannot stay properly aligned to the power relays in order to transfer the energy of the warp to the opposing ship. However, if you could somehow pull it off, the energy of the warp would simply corrupt the enemy ship rather than destroy it, thus creating a chaos ship which of course would require us sending in a squad of the Emperor's finest in order to cleanse if of its heresies against the God Emperor. |
McBustacrunk
State Protectorate
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Okay, I'm actually pretty satisfied by that answer. Thanks for preserving my suspension of disbelief :D |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
993
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xavier Higdon wrote:The larger the ship, the greater the effect, so a Nyx might go so far as to tear a part atom by atom, creating a beautiful corona as those atoms dissipate their energy and static charge on the station's shields but doing no actual damage.
Not sure you realise how much energy something that heavy would have at relativistic speeds. It would destroy the station, the moon it was orbiting, and kill off all life on the planet behind that.
http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/ |
McBustacrunk
State Protectorate
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
damnit. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Tribal Band
769
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Therese Amsel wrote:That's not how warp drives work, nothing we know of yet can travel faster than the speed of light.
fixed |
Therese Amsel
Balkenkreuz
22
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
I doubt it. |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
94
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Xavier Higdon wrote:The larger the ship, the greater the effect, so a Nyx might go so far as to tear a part atom by atom, creating a beautiful corona as those atoms dissipate their energy and static charge on the station's shields but doing no actual damage. Not sure you realise how much energy something that heavy would have at relativistic speeds. It would destroy the station, the moon it was orbiting, and kill off all life on the planet behind that. http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
That link is hilarious.
Hit by Pitch, lol.
C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust..... |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1776
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Warp drives make things phase through matter. Just look at what happens when you warp through a planet.
Even if microwarp drives work by having you warp for microseconds at a time, you're not actually going at those immense speeds.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :)
Handy tools and an SDE conversion
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
MacKael
Segmentum Solar
Nulli Secunda
115
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
This isn't star trek |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
3139
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alaekessa wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Xavier Higdon wrote:The larger the ship, the greater the effect, so a Nyx might go so far as to tear a part atom by atom, creating a beautiful corona as those atoms dissipate their energy and static charge on the station's shields but doing no actual damage. Not sure you realise how much energy something that heavy would have at relativistic speeds. It would destroy the station, the moon it was orbiting, and kill off all life on the planet behind that. http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/ That link is hilarious. Hit by Pitch, lol.
Same argument as a punch by Superman. I saw it on YouTube, I think. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
2955
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
If I recall correctly... in EVE warp drives, jump drives, and stargate jumps effectively create mini-wormholes that "remove" us from normal space until we exit at a calculated endpoint (we are, in effect, "tunneling" through space).
Microwarpdrives could be doing something similar but not completely... somewhat "removing"/"lessening" us from space so our normal thrusters are far more efficient, but at the same time increasing our energy "footprint." The mass increase from using a MWD could be explained with some technobabble about how MWDs power output increases our density.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
United Federation of Commerce
1022
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Warp drives make things phase through matter. Just look at what happens when you warp through a planet.
Even if microwarp drives work by having you warp for microseconds at a time, you're not actually going at those immense speeds.
And all the what ifs are good :) take a 'simple' question, and turn it up to 11. (I'll build you an Amp that goes to 12 for 20,000 quid, btw)
more exactly:
warp (in EVE) functions as a "trans-dimensional" way of travelling. you create a matter-less space on which the ship is the centre, and you move said bubble thru space unfettered. this is why you go thru planets, stations, stars and you don't transform into a pancake in the process.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Xavier Higdon
Breakwater Holding Inc.
24
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 19:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Xavier Higdon wrote:The larger the ship, the greater the effect, so a Nyx might go so far as to tear a part atom by atom, creating a beautiful corona as those atoms dissipate their energy and static charge on the station's shields but doing no actual damage. Not sure you realise how much energy something that heavy would have at relativistic speeds. It would destroy the station, the moon it was orbiting, and kill off all life on the planet behind that. http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
Except in the vacuum of space there's no atmosphere to cause that shockwave, and since the ship's mass would be near absolute zero its weight would be negligible. Reverting the ship out of warp while still travelling at that speed would cause it to instantly shred, as it would suddenly weigh an enormous amount, and as we know an object's mass increases as it accelerates. So the ship would suddenly be infinitely heavy, collapsing in on itself and causing a mini-nova. This mini-nova, being caused by such a tiny amount of matter, would instantly vaporize any unshielded objects nearby but would be tiny in comparison to a star going super nova. Ships in EvE, however, have enough shielding to safely "bounce" of the surface of a star, so they should be able to survive so long as their shields weren't damaged, and as stations are much larger their shields have more surface area on which to dissipate the energy. The biggest danger would be to small ships like fighters, bombers and shuttles. These ships might be "hit" by the mini-nova, flinging them outward and potentially tearing them apart. |
stoicfaux
3041
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 19:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
McBustacrunk wrote:
For instance, in the Empyrean Age trailer, some guy crashes a Nyx into a station at subwarp speeds, but the station survives relatively intact. If the guy in the Nyx had simply kept his warp drive on for an infinitesimal fraction of a second longer, then the station would have been literally and completely obliterated. Hell, someone could just strap a warp drive onto a missile and destroy any ship that has a large gravity field in one hit. I mean, even a frigate is capable of destroying a planet if it was travelling at a fraction of the speed of light. Warp drive missiles would pretty much obsolete every rule of conventional warfare in EVE, expanding maximum ranges from kilometers to solar systems.
Not really. The Nyx ram was successfully only because the station's shield in that section was sabotaged. Otherwise the Nyx would have bounced off.
Since ships bounce off of each other and off of objects in EVE, it implies that EVE ships are effectively immune to traditional kinetic kill weapons.
As for EVE kinetic damage ammo/weapons, given that we can fire through solid objects, the very limited weapons ranges, and the apparently instantaneous travel speed of hybrids and projectiles, then we can infer that EVE "kinetic" weapons aren't the solid-object-moving-very-very-fast that we think of in the real world. Maybe, instead, EVE weapons use mini-warp tunnels to travel to their target and do damage in some fashion other than via physical impacts and normal space explosions.
Quote:TL;DR - Why can't ships warp into planets, stations, or other ships?
Magic.
When it comes to the science of EVE, EVE puts the fiction in "science fiction" while managing to lose most of the science. |
Xavier Higdon
Breakwater Holding Inc.
24
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 20:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:McBustacrunk wrote:
For instance, in the Empyrean Age trailer, some guy crashes a Nyx into a station at subwarp speeds, but the station survives relatively intact. If the guy in the Nyx had simply kept his warp drive on for an infinitesimal fraction of a second longer, then the station would have been literally and completely obliterated. Hell, someone could just strap a warp drive onto a missile and destroy any ship that has a large gravity field in one hit. I mean, even a frigate is capable of destroying a planet if it was travelling at a fraction of the speed of light. Warp drive missiles would pretty much obsolete every rule of conventional warfare in EVE, expanding maximum ranges from kilometers to solar systems.
Not really. The Nyx ram was successfully only because the station's shield in that section was sabotaged. Otherwise the Nyx would have bounced off. Since ships bounce off of each other and off of objects in EVE, it implies that EVE ships are effectively immune to traditional kinetic kill weapons. As for EVE kinetic damage ammo/weapons, given that we can fire through solid objects, the very limited weapons ranges, and the apparently instantaneous travel speed of hybrids and projectiles, then we can infer that EVE "kinetic" weapons aren't the solid-object-moving-very-very-fast that we think of in the real world. Maybe, instead, EVE weapons use mini-warp tunnels to travel to their target and do damage in some fashion other than via physical impacts and normal space explosions. Quote:TL;DR - Why can't ships warp into planets, stations, or other ships? Magic. When it comes to the science of EVE, EVE puts the fiction in "science fiction" while managing to lose most of the science.
Actually the science is there alongside the fiction. It's not as prevalent here as it was in the Mass Effect games, but that's because those games were more akin to a story being told about past events. That story was completed before we ever picked up a controller, and as such the creators could outline rather strict rules to the sciences of the ME universe. They created Eezo to explain most of it, and they did an amazing job with making it realistic. CCP on the other hand has to keep the science more hand-wavey because they don't know where the story goes. If they decided to stop development after the next expansions we'd probably get more concrete facts on how and why the EvE universe works the way it does. But as it is they can't be too specific because they might need to change things. |
Boomhaur
156
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 22:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quite simple really your the pilot of your ship in a pod who will cheat their way out of death via clone. But your co-pilot and ships crew are not so lucky and don't feel suicidal. So they refuse any and all orders concerning warping into objects to make them go boom.
Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15891
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 22:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Because there are no Kzinti in the game, so their lesson was never learned. Duh.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1776
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 23:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because there are no Kzinti in the game, so their lesson was never learned. Duh.
Warp drive is reactionless (possibly) 
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :)
Handy tools and an SDE conversion
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15891
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 23:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Tippia wrote:Because there are no Kzinti in the game, so their lesson was never learned. Duh. Warp drive is reactionless (possibly)
Lies! Have you ever seen the reactions when a target just warps away? 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
856
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 23:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Therese Amsel wrote:That's not how warp drives work, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
Maybe, but yes things can travel faster than light. |
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
Project Wildfire
220
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 23:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Because of falcon.
-- |
Hessian Arcturus
S.W.O.R.D. Navy
313
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 00:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Therese Amsel wrote:That's not how warp drives work, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
Kitty Bear wrote:Therese Amsel wrote:That's not how warp drives work, nothing we know of yet can travel faster than the speed of light. fixed
I agree with you fixing this...
Neutrinos travel at precicely the speed of light. So for all we know there's some particle out there that may travel faster.
To outright state that nothing travels faster than light without proof to your cause is silly. The special theory of relativity states theory in it's title for a reason.
It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1778
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 00:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
The Theory of Relativity may only be a theory. But it's one which has, so far, survived all observational data. So to discount it would be, umm, silly.
Relativistic physics are somewhat counter intuitive. The theory states (layman's terms. I'm not a physicist):
Nothing travels faster than the speed of light, in any reference frame (i.e. no matter that speed you're travelling at, if you measure the speed of light, you'll get the same value. and nothing can move faster than that)
This leads to a couple of interesting effects:
As you get closer to the speed of light, Time passes more slowly for you. (Time Dilation) (it has to, so when you shine a torch, the light doesn't travel faster than any other light)
As you get closer to the speed of light, distance contracts for you.
These do apply at lower speeds, though it's not particularly noticeable. It is enough to be measured though.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :)
Handy tools and an SDE conversion
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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