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aVoCaDo MuFfInMaN
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Posted - 2005.12.20 15:00:00 -
[1]
Anyone has a good vagabond setup?
*visit www.muffin-factory.com*
convo or mail me ingame for signatures for your character..
payment: isk
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Black 1
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Posted - 2005.12.20 16:14:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: aVoCaDo MuFfInMaN
Anyone has a good vagabond setup?
Yes
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Laocoon
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Posted - 2005.12.20 16:16:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Black 1
Originally by: aVoCaDo MuFfInMaN
Anyone has a good vagabond setup?
Yes
lmao
--------------------------------------------
(paint sigs ftl :'( )
i collect heads
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.12.20 16:50:00 -
[4]
as i don't fly them i'll share it with you:
5x dual 180mm ac, med. nosf
mwd, scram, 2x t2 extenders
3x dmg mod, 2x whatever
HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] >
they ebayed the bs for
grain
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xKillaH
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: LUKEC
as i don't fly them i'll share it with you:
5x dual 180mm ac, med. nosf
mwd, scram, 2x t2 extenders
3x dmg mod, 2x whatever
this is one of the worse setups I've ever seen
Need a Sig? Check Gallery
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: xKillaH
Originally by: LUKEC
as i don't fly them i'll share it with you:
5x dual 180mm ac, med. nosf
mwd, scram, 2x t2 extenders
3x dmg mod, 2x whatever
this is one of the worse setups I've ever seen
Until you post yours.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: xKillaH
Originally by: LUKEC
as i don't fly them i'll share it with you:
5x dual 180mm ac, med. nosf
mwd, scram, 2x t2 extenders
3x dmg mod, 2x whatever
this is one of the worse setups I've ever seen
it's not *that* bad - with the vaga's natural shield resists and crappy cap passive shield tanking it is definatly an option
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
xKillaH
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: xKillaH
Originally by: LUKEC
as i don't fly them i'll share it with you:
5x dual 180mm ac, med. nosf
mwd, scram, 2x t2 extenders
3x dmg mod, 2x whatever
this is one of the worse setups I've ever seen
it's not *that* bad - with the vaga's natural shield resists and crappy cap passive shield tanking it is definatly an option
1mwd + 2 shield extenders tech 2!!! sig radius will be huge, your cap wouldn't hold!
Need a Sig? Check Gallery
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:12:00 -
[9]
Forum is just full on h8 atm and sarcasm atm!
Here's my Vaga setup:
5x 425mm AC, 2x neut
MWD, Minmatar Racial Jammer, Damp, Med SB
3x Mag Stab, 2x Cap Relay
Take it into PvP and bring the pain!
Loading sig, please wait... |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:14:00 -
[10]
Edited by: KilROCK on 22/12/2005 14:14:23
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Forum is just full on h8 atm and sarcasm atm!
Here's my Vaga setup:
5x 425mm AC, 2x neut
MWD, Minmatar Racial Jammer, Damp, Med SB
3x Mag Stab, 2x Cap Relay
Take it into PvP and bring the pain!
What the ****! I hope you were joking. 6 highs, mag stabs? WTF lol
Yea, funny... 
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: xKillaH
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: xKillaH
Originally by: LUKEC
as i don't fly them i'll share it with you:
5x dual 180mm ac, med. nosf
mwd, scram, 2x t2 extenders
3x dmg mod, 2x whatever
this is one of the worse setups I've ever seen
it's not *that* bad - with the vaga's natural shield resists and crappy cap passive shield tanking it is definatly an option
1mwd + 2 shield extenders tech 2!!! sig radius will be huge, your cap wouldn't hold!
shield extenders don't use cap, and if you're using a MWD you're already the size of a small moon :)
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:17:00 -
[12]
A *lot* of vagabond pilots use double extenders, for the simple reason that you dont partiocularly need heavy tanking when you're not getting hit a lot, base hp is a lot more useful. Not sure about after patch with shield extender sig buffs though. I'd *guess* the sig wouldnt make much of a difference. MWD is a new one on me...you hit way over 1000m/s with a decent AB, why give yourself a sig radius the size of my ego and obviate the whole point of being in a Vagabond?
Loading sig, please wait... |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: KilROCK
Yea, funny...
I thought the Minmatar racial jammer was a nice touch :P
Loading sig, please wait... |
Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2005.12.22 15:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
why give yourself a sig radius the size of my ego and obviate the whole point of being in a Vagabond?
Coz 4k/s + 200+ dps is cool >_>
p - l - u - r |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.22 15:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Testy Mctest
why give yourself a sig radius the size of my ego and obviate the whole point of being in a Vagabond?
Coz 4k/s + 200+ dps is cool >_>
especially with nanos in the lows :)
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Marco P
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:22:00 -
[16]
To try and help the original poster a bit:
Most people use (I think):
Highs: ACs (I use 220s) then either a nos or rockets in highs,
Mids: AB (not mwd for reasons already stated) and shield extender(s) - post RMR the dual large extender option probably aint quite as valid then other stuff varies(webber, resist boosts, shield boost etc)
Lows: PDU(s), Damage / tracking mods mods
Hope this is helpful
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aVoCaDo MuFfInMaN
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Posted - 2005.12.22 17:54:00 -
[17]
Thnx very much for teh good and usefull tips guys
greetz avocado
*visit www.muffin-factory.com*
convo or mail me ingame for signatures for your character..
payment: isk
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.12.23 04:42:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ryysa on 23/12/2005 04:42:43
these setups make baby jesus cry...
Here's a totally typical setup...
High: 5x220 AC II, med nos II
mwd, 20k(or 7.5k) scram, large extender II, large booster II
Low: 3x dmg mods, 2x whatever
The whatever can either be stabs (buuhuu), pdu II's, or tracking enhancers...
All about target jamming |
Drunkeh
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Posted - 2005.12.23 04:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 23/12/2005 04:42:43
these setups make baby jesus cry...
Here's a totally typical setup...
High: 5x220 AC II, med nos II
mwd, 20k(or 7.5k) scram, large extender II, large booster II
Low: 3x dmg mods, 2x whatever
The whatever can either be stabs (buuhuu), pdu II's, or tracking enhancers...
3 pdu IIs not 3 damage mods, and a med shield booster II is the typical setup.
PS to the OP: Dont all you guys do is snipe 150km in .4s? Wtf do you need a vaga setup for
Originally by: Omeega
I R NO WORK.
I SELL MY KIDS FOR ISK.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR.
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ryysa on 23/12/2005 05:20:32
Originally by: Drunkeh
Dont all you guys do is snipe 150km in .4s? Wtf do you need a vaga setup for
Frankly i don't care what you think about me, because forumwarriors suck.
btw, this is offtopic trolling, and i hope it gets modded.
P.S. post with your main.
All about target jamming |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:20:00 -
[21]
tbh, skipping on the web there is basically asking to get eaten alive by a single Crow or a pair of them... >>;;
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: j0sephine
tbh, skipping on the web there is basically asking to get eaten alive by a single Crow or a pair of them... >>;;
true... although concidering the falloff of minmatar guns (and if you use 180mm's) you should still be able to hit them quite far out.
All about target jamming |
Drunkeh
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 23/12/2005 05:20:32
Originally by: Drunkeh
Dont all you guys do is snipe 150km in .4s? Wtf do you need a vaga setup for
Frankly i don't care what you think about me, because forumwarriors suck.
btw, this is offtopic trolling, and i hope it gets modded.
P.S. post with your main.
Learn to read. I said "to the OP." Unless the OP is your alt, wtf are you *****ing about?
P.S. this is my main.
Originally by: Omeega
I R NO WORK.
I SELL MY KIDS FOR ISK.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR.
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Josarian Lysandor
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:26:00 -
[24]
5x 220mm II, 1x Med Nos II
1x AB II, 1x Web, 1x Scrambler (yes, the 7.5km one), 1x Large Extender II
3x Gyro II, 2x Nanofiber Internal
If you are weak in the knees, replace the nanos with WCS.
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:27:00 -
[25]
"true... although concidering the falloff of minmatar guns (and if you use 180mm's) you should still be able to hit them quite far out."
That's the catch... you don't keep out of falloff with autocannon ship, you get under the tracking and keep your sig tiny ;s
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:29:00 -
[26]
i read .4 sec systems as 4S corp, Originally by: Drunkeh
Dont all you guys do is snipe 150km in .4s?
Misread, sorry.
All about target jamming |
Drunkeh
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ryysa
i read .4 sec systems as 4S corp, Originally by: Drunkeh
Dont all you guys do is snipe 150km in .4s?
Misread, sorry.
Yeah I see how you could have taken that wrong, sorry
Originally by: Omeega
I R NO WORK.
I SELL MY KIDS FOR ISK.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR.
|
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.23 06:12:00 -
[28]
5x220mm ac, 1 t2 med nos
1 t2 mwd, t2 large shield extender, 1 t2 med sb/web, 1 20k/7.5k scram
2/3 gyros, 2/3 pdu ii's
Im sure someone will have a prob with this setup, bout you can suck my **** if you do
We're coming for you |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.12.23 06:35:00 -
[29]
all that cap and nothing to do with it =/
All about target jamming |
Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2005.12.23 06:59:00 -
[30]
If you're going to run EW on this at all, atleast make it a weapon disruptor to counter the duel extenders. Not some silly ECM cap hungry module thats going to jam once in a blue moon.
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: j0sephine
tbh, skipping on the web there is basically asking to get eaten alive by a single Crow or a pair of them... >>;;
5 light drones should be able to take care of that now, no? Given the buff that they've received in RmR...
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sun Ra
5x220mm ac, 1 t2 med nos
1 t2 mwd, t2 large shield extender, 1 t2 med sb/web, 1 20k/7.5k scram
2/3 gyros, 2/3 pdu ii's
Im sure someone will have a prob with this setup, bout you can suck my **** if you do
That's my setup, too... 
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:49:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ryysa
all that cap and nothing to do with it =/
Let me hear you say that when a battleship nos's you
We're coming for you |
Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.01.03 12:24:00 -
[34]
Not to talk down dual extenders - I love them. However anyone have more varied setups for the Vaga? It is a fairly versatile ship, would hate to see it restricted to the 220/shield tank + tackle/gyro lows, which pretty much all these are a variation on.
That said, I use
5 x 220 II, nos
AB II, scram, extender II/web, extender II
3 x gyro II, 2 x nano
Don't see why you would MWD. Since nothing else uses much cap you can leave the ab on amd move 150m/s+ while webbed. Given it's primarily solo use, and the amount of wcs being used now I'm finding you need a 7.5km + 20km, leaving you with one extender.
For a better tackle you could armour tank, while somewhat slowing ya down. Just you've got two res holes to fill... In fact, does anyone armour tank the vaga? Depends who you going after I guess.
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.01.03 13:40:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Sun Ra on 03/01/2006 13:41:45
Originally by: Lonectzn
Not to talk down dual extenders - I love them. However anyone have more varied setups for the Vaga? It is a fairly versatile ship, would hate to see it restricted to the 220/shield tank + tackle/gyro lows, which pretty much all these are a variation on.
That said, I use
5 x 220 II, nos
AB II, scram, extender II/web, extender II
3 x gyro II, 2 x nano
Don't see why you would MWD. Since nothing else uses much cap you can leave the ab on amd move 150m/s+ while webbed. Given it's primarily solo use, and the amount of wcs being used now I'm finding you need a 7.5km + 20km, leaving you with one extender.
For a better tackle you could armour tank, while somewhat slowing ya down. Just you've got two res holes to fill... In fact, does anyone armour tank the vaga? Depends who you going after I guess.
I like mwd, i just fly the thing like an interceptor that can take heavy damage, mwd is a must for belt hunting not everyone fights at gates and not everyone is willing to fight  . Its also a must for solo'ing i can pretty much always escape most camps using speed alone.
A corp mate of mine armour tanks his, seems to do as well just slower, i personally dont like the idea.
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Akima Tucker
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Posted - 2006.01.03 16:10:00 -
[36]
I know Vaga's favour shield tanking, I must confuse i use the follow setup, so far its only been used against npc's but the pvp fit is similar...
My question is - should i bin this setup?
5x 220
2x Nos // 2x assault launchers for missions
10mn AB
Web & Scrambler // Scrambler dropped for missions
Tracking Comp
Sensor booster // dropped for missions
Med Armour repairer
800mm plate
2x hardeners
PDU
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R3 1D
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Posted - 2006.01.03 16:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akima Tucker
I know Vaga's favour shield tanking, I must confuse i use the follow setup, so far its only been used against npc's but the pvp fit is similar...
My question is - should i bin this setup?
5x 220
2x Nos // 2x assault launchers for missions
10mn AB
Web & Scrambler // Scrambler dropped for missions
Tracking Comp
Sensor booster // dropped for missions
Med Armour repairer
800mm plate
2x hardeners
PDU
People used to armour-tank the vagabond and so it's viable, just not as good as effective as shieldtank setup as with a shieldtank you deal more damage (spare lows for Gyrostabs) and you get a tank just as effective
(Yes, my main account is broken)
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.01.03 18:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akima Tucker
I know Vaga's favour shield tanking, I must confuse i use the follow setup, so far its only been used against npc's but the pvp fit is similar...
My question is - should i bin this setup?
5x 220
2x Nos // 2x assault launchers for missions
10mn AB
Web & Scrambler // Scrambler dropped for missions
Tracking Comp
Sensor booster // dropped for missions
Med Armour repairer
800mm plate
2x hardeners
PDU
Vagabond has 6 highslot. 5 turret and 2 nos is impossible.
And, with that setup, you shouldn't need a PDU. So cap relay instead.
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Alex Kynes
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Posted - 2006.01.03 19:17:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Alex Kynes on 03/01/2006 19:18:31
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Forum is just full on h8 atm and sarcasm atm!
Here's my Vaga setup:
5x 425mm AC, 2x neut
MWD, Minmatar Racial Jammer, Damp, Med SB
3x Mag Stab, 2x Cap Relay
Take it into PvP and bring the pain!
WTB! Vagabond with 7 hi-slots!
-AK
Edit> Crap. Someone already pointed that out. Ummm. WTB one, still! 
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.01.03 19:31:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Josarian Lysandor
5x 220mm II, 1x Med Nos II
1x AB II, 1x Web, 1x Scrambler (yes, the 7.5km one), 1x Large Extender II
3x Gyro II, 2x Nanofiber Internal
Why not mwd instead of ab?
p - l - u - r
My first vid |
BlackDog Rackh'am
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Posted - 2006.01.03 19:46:00 -
[41]
I favor MWD as well. I also like double extenders if i have a buddy with me webbing,or when i eventually train for t2 light drones. Unless against multiple frigs a web is not 100% needed, i have killed frigs in 2-3 volleys without webbing them as they approached me. Mind you,a volley is about 1.5 seconds with the vaga.
As for anything cruiser sized and upwards,you don't need a web to control range. Just dash briefly under 10km to see if he has a web,if not,orbit where your guns do best,if he does stay out of 10k by using the MWD in short bursts.
On the test server i almost killed a fully tech2 kitted Brutix with t2 drones with this setup. He was at 45% structure when i died,and if i hadn't flown inside his web range he'd be out of cap and dead.
As for the sig radius issue,the vaga has one of the lowest. With the 2 extenders you'll have 165m and that's only 5m more than a deimos has. It's cap is small to run a shield booster,especially if a BS nosses you,so i prefer to have higher base HP. You need at least 3xPDU II to semi-effectively run a large tech2 booster and still you can't run it non stop,so i prefer some cap-free extra shields and more gyrostabilisers.
Try this:
5x220mm Vulcan II's,med nos (i think you can fit a t2,if not go for the diminishing one because it also has 12km range)
10MN MWD II,20k scrambler,L extender II or web,L extender II
3xGyro II,1xInternal force field array,1xPDU II
With my skills this gives me about 2.9km/sec and 7.1k hardened shields.
If the target is big enough sig wise you can orbit at 10-11km ,safe from web and nosing him as you spray him with bullets.
Dual 180's are nice,but tend to be weak against BS. Good for antifrig duty thanks to better tracking if you use some nanofibers and a web.They used to be great before RMR since you could fit some extra gyrostabs,but with the new stacking rules this doesn't apply.
425's reload way too often with their small ammo clip thus reducing your DPS,and you might need an RCU II to fit them. I prefer PDU due to the shield and cap bonus,but if i need to fit 2 of them i loose a gyro and i think that 220's with 3 gyros are better than 425's with 2 gyros. So it's 220's all the way for me.
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Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.01.04 09:32:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Lonectzn on 04/01/2006 09:32:35
Hehe so pretty much the only thing dividing vaga pilots is "MWD or not to MWD". Those setups (though nasty) pretty much more of the same.
I'd really like to free up that med, but armour tanking has too many drawbacks. You can fit rep + 2 hards + 2 gyro, but you lose some damage, speed, and your tank breaks under nos quickly. On the upside you've got 4 meds, so ab/scram/scram/web or whatever.
Anyone tried something more funky (that works)? I refuse to believe all vaga pilots fly the same ship, that's not the minnie way ;-)
Suppose you could 720, but then you may as well muninn. Except a vaga could arty and stay at range vs anything.
Dunno. Guess I'm loving scrambled egg, but wondering if I can boil it too ;-)
-----------------
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Arosth Katsbalger
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Posted - 2006.01.09 04:29:00 -
[43]
just out of curiosity...why not use blasters instead of cannons? the blasters got a little better range, dmg mod, and rof.
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Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2006.01.09 04:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Arosth Katsbalger
just out of curiosity...why not use blasters instead of cannons? the blasters got a little better range, dmg mod, and rof.
---------------------------------------------
Please use a signature that conforms with the EVE-Online forum rules for signatures - Jacques' |
Drexciyian
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Posted - 2006.01.09 06:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dexter Rast
Originally by: Arosth Katsbalger
just out of curiosity...why not use blasters instead of cannons? the blasters got a little better range, dmg mod, and rof.
Lets hope that was a joke 
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Arosth Katsbalger
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Posted - 2006.01.09 07:04:00 -
[46]
actually no...i was just curious as to see if it worked out any better. i know you get percentages based on race guns for the vaga...just didnt see why you couldnt swap out a hair.
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Drexciyian
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Posted - 2006.01.09 07:19:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Arosth Katsbalger
actually no...i was just curious as to see if it worked out any better. i know you get percentages based on race guns for the vaga...just didnt see why you couldnt swap out a hair.
Cos if you use medium autocannosn you get 3 bonuses to them which will cause them to out perform hybrids without those bonus, also autocannons operating range is higher than blasters due to the massive fall off, and the ships bonus adds to the fall of, this is also why a vaga is more suited to autocannons than a muninn which get a range bonus instead of fall off.
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Arosth Katsbalger
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Posted - 2006.01.09 07:21:00 -
[48]
awesome thx for clarifying that:)
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.01.09 08:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Drexciyian
this is also why a vaga is more suited to autocannons than a muninn which get a range bonus instead of fall off.
Muninn gets a tracking bonus however, making it a lot more viable for 425mm usage.. and its nowhere near as expensive as the Vagabond. Now if only 425mm ammo capacity didn't suck so bad. :|
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.01.09 08:49:00 -
[50]
Muninn with 220mm II hits ganks frigates/cruiser under 10km with amazing tracking... But it's not as fun as the vagabond..
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Omatje
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Posted - 2006.01.09 10:50:00 -
[51]
Racing setup:
5x220II/Med Nos II
SB/Scram/cap recharger/10mn Domi MWD (have to check if tech II can sustain)
1-4 overdrives / 1-4 nano's
MWD runs forever and you can use the shieldbooster a bit as well without using the nos.
sig? |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.11 01:33:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 11/01/2006 01:35:02
Just started playing with vagas in the ship fitter:
220mm AC x 5
Med Dim Nos x 1
Large Extender II x 2
20k Scram x 1
Domi MWD x 1
Gyro II x 3
PDU II x 1
1 low spare and more pg and cpu free than should be possible
7440 shields
natural resists 75em, 60exp, 40kin, 60the
3095 speed
408dps @ optimal with t2 drones
the exact setup has probably been posted before, but meh
edit: slap another pduII in the low and you'll get 7812 shields
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Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.01.11 02:53:00 -
[53]
Why not a neut rather than that nos? Not like we need the cap, and the nos is only good for draining frigs so a neut is the go.
Ditch the second extender for a web and you have two free lows. WHAT DO I PUT THERE??? =)
Vaga is so damn easy to fit, 2 free slots with like 60pg and 150cpu. Signal amps? nanos? wcs (but why would ya)? pdu? Dunno what would help most.
Hey also drop the neut for a cloak. I would if it didn't gimp scan res - would be sweet.
-----------------
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Drunkeh
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Posted - 2006.01.11 05:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lonectzn
Why not a neut rather than that nos? Not like we need the cap, and the nos is only good for draining frigs so a neut is the go.
Ditch the second extender for a web and you have two free lows. WHAT DO I PUT THERE??? =)
Vaga is so damn easy to fit, 2 free slots with like 60pg and 150cpu. Signal amps? nanos? wcs (but why would ya)? pdu? Dunno what would help most.
Hey also drop the neut for a cloak. I would if it didn't gimp scan res - would be sweet.
The nos is critical, else if facing any bs with heavy nos/neuts you are ******. The med nos allows you to run your guns in between heavy nos cycles.
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2006.01.11 06:26:00 -
[55]
after doing some testing i highly recommend the Barrage ammo for the vagabond. Mix it with EMP and you will seriously love the dmg output diff
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Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.01.11 15:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Drunkeh
The nos is critical, else if facing any bs with heavy nos/neuts you are ******. The med nos allows you to run your guns in between heavy nos cycles.
You don't get within 20km of a close range BS period. Feel free to risk 160mil + fitting, but I see a close range bs I run. Sure you might be able to take out amarr, but I don't bother. Vaga is not a bs killer and I don't fit it for that.
Hence the nos is pointless. Neut much better against those frigs =)
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