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The Can Flagging is bugged? if not, then doom to all miners!

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beatify	Posted - 2005.12.21 18:33:00 - [1] Here is what happen, which i believe is extremely stupid! I was mining in 0.9 belt, an ore thief came over to me (with one battleship and one hauler ship) 1) he use his battleship and jettison a can beside me 2) he moved all the ore from my jettison can to his jettison can and got him self flagged 3) he use his hauler ship account and moved all the ore he stolen to his cargo Now, this is quite stupid, what can I do about it?. A) If I attack him, I will die since i am in a mining barge and he is in a battleship or something. B) If I jettison another can and take the ore back from his can to my can, I will get flagged which he will kill me. C) If I go back to station and change to a battleship and come back to fight him, he will either run away already, or he combat me and kill me. I really have no idea what to do...except leaving that system...but alot of people been doing the same thing right now which is bugging me.... This Can flagging is giving the power to the thief to actually put all the ORE I mine under HIS name... He is not thiefing anymore..all he do ..he can come with a shuttle, jettision a can beside me take all my ore, then use another ship to take the ore..... He doesn't care if i attack him.......LOL... If you guys take a deeper thoughts for the use of this can flagging...you can do alot about it...... Is this BUGGED??? If it is going to be like that forever...then...i might as well quit mining and get another account and do the same thing...lol
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.12.21 18:35:00 - [2] No, it's not bugged. Those of us who actually think, knew in advance that this is exactly what would happen; but our voices were drowned out by "WHAAAAAHH!!! I WANT MY CANS PROTECTED!!!" Well, guess what. Instead of annoying industrials who can steal your ore, you now have annoying battleships who can steal your ore and then kill you. Good, ain't it. "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
turnschuh	Posted - 2005.12.21 18:35:00 - [3] lol can flagging is indeed the stupidest thing ccp ever made.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.21 18:39:00 - [4] this is no different than the people pre-RMR who moved your ore to their can and blew it up. does it matter if they get the ore or if it's killed? either way you don't get it. the only people whining about this are the ones stupid enough to attack the BS and get killed. ------- macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel
beatify	Posted - 2005.12.21 18:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Jennai this is no different than the people pre-RMR who moved your ore to their can and blew it up. does it matter if they get the ore or if it's killed? either way you don't get it. the only people whining about this are the ones stupid enough to attack the BS and get killed. It's not just about BS.... they can come with 2 accounts a shuttle and a hauler (both in a gang).. shuttle jettison a can and move the ore from my can to his can....then hauler can take the ore FREELY!! since the hauler and the shuttle is in the same GANG!... THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT! HIS HAULER IS NOT FLAGGED!!! LOL
Macro Slasher	Posted - 2005.12.21 18:55:00 - [6] No it's not bugged. It works just as it should. Move out of the newbie systems or work with friends. That's just good for you.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:02:00 - [7] Originally by: turnschuh lol can flagging is indeed the stupidest thing ccp ever made. NO, it isn't. Carebears whined about gatecamps, so they got sentries (an idea offered in the forums). It was implemented, and now Carebears are upset because the sentries can be tanked or might shoot them if they attack a criminal. Carebears whined about no police, so they got Concord. Then they whined that Concord protected the criminals too. Carebears whined about thievery, so they got can flagging. Now they're whining that the can flagging can be used to make mining more dangerous instead of less. Carebears whined about losing ships and not being able to retaliate against their assailant, so we get I4I. Now carebears are upset because if they try to USE I4I, they get blown up by the combat-hardened pirate again (who doesn't get a sec hit for defending himself). Carebears ask, CCP gives, Carebears ***** at CCP for giving them what they wanted. It doesn't seem to me that the problem lies with either the system or CCP, but with the Carebears. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Lanu	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:03:00 - [8] Just a question.. if you enter the gang off a miner. Do you also get "killrights" to atack the ore thief? ( Like .. your A , your in gang with B but thats everything you got in commen... you arent in his corp.. in his aliance just in his gang. C steals from B, can A atack C ( legally )? Millennium est qua meus patria est. Nos mos nunquam intereo.
Macro Slasher	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Lanu Just a question.. if you enter the gang off a miner. Do you also get "killrights" to atack the ore thief? ( Like .. your A , your in gang with B but thats everything you got in commen... you arent in his corp.. in his aliance just in his gang. C steals from B, can A atack C ( legally )? Yes. That's the very point. To promote teamwork and if they are too hard for you, move into lower sec and a quieter system You can make more money too while at it.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Corvus Dove Originally by: turnschuh lol can flagging is indeed the stupidest thing ccp ever made. NO, it isn't. Carebears whined about gatecamps, so they got sentries (an idea offered in the forums). It was implemented, and now Carebears are upset because the sentries can be tanked or might shoot them if they attack a criminal. Carebears whined about no police, so they got Concord. Then they whined that Concord protected the criminals too. Carebears whined about thievery, so they got can flagging. Now they're whining that the can flagging can be used to make mining more dangerous instead of less. Carebears whined about losing ships and not being able to retaliate against their assailant, so we get I4I. Now carebears are upset because if they try to USE I4I, they get blown up by the combat-hardened pirate again (who doesn't get a sec hit for defending himself). Carebears ask, CCP gives, Carebears *** at CCP for giving them what they wanted. It doesn't seem to me that the problem lies with either the system or CCP, but with the Carebears. think that sums up. Actually I like can flagging. Makes killing macro'ers more easy. ------------------- Celestial Horizon*: we go zerg on you*

Rooman Black	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:11:00 - [11] Damn these threads are getting boring. Here are the facts 1) Before RMR he would need one hauler to steal all your stuff and there was nothing you could do about it 2) After RMR he can do exactly the same thing BUT you can if you wish attack him for doing as such Its that simple. If you had a ganged friend with a BS then he can now jump in and save your ass...other than that nothing has changed. Its not rocket science now is it? Please give these stupid threads a rest.
Happysin	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:18:00 - [12] Quote: Actually I like can flagging. Makes killing macro'ers more easy. Well, it did. It looks like the scripts and the people behind them have mostly adapted. Even the +10 standing trick doesn't seem to be tricking the scripts so much anymore. Eh, it was fun while it lasted, and CCP got a heck of a list of macroers from us at ArsC, but I think the freebie macro killing is comign to an end. Of course, you can still steal their ore with impunity in 1.0 and .9 areas.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:19:00 - [13] Originally by: beatify Originally by: Jennai this is no different than the people pre-RMR who moved your ore to their can and blew it up. does it matter if they get the ore or if it's killed? either way you don't get it. the only people whining about this are the ones stupid enough to attack the BS and get killed. It's not just about BS.... they can come with 2 accounts a shuttle and a hauler (both in a gang).. shuttle jettison a can and move the ore from my can to his can....then hauler can take the ore FREELY!! since the hauler and the shuttle is in the same GANG!... THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT! HIS HAULER IS NOT FLAGGED!!! LOL if it's a shuttle and a hauler then why don't you kill the shuttle, move the ore back to your can, and kill the hauler if it takes it? ------- macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel
Harlequinn	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Rooman Black Damn these threads are getting boring. Here are the facts 1) Before RMR he would need one hauler to steal all your stuff and there was nothing you could do about it 2) After RMR he can do exactly the same thing BUT you can if you wish attack him for doing as such Its that simple. If you had a ganged friend with a BS then he can now jump in and save your ass...other than that nothing has changed. Its not rocket science now is it? Please give these stupid threads a rest. QFT. In fact miners with a guard (BS, or otherwise) are less likley to lose ore to a thief than before. The thief in the above example might think twice about getting a can of ore if the cost could be his Raven. Seems to me the OP is complaining about how teamwork (or 2nd accounts) can beat his solo operation. To that I have to say, WELL... DUH! --Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.--
Ignatius Chapelle	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:30:00 - [15] The can flagging mechanic is good. In fact it actually promotes teamwork, one decent combat ship overseeing a mining gang is now worthwhile, even in high sec. Any half decent combat ship could gank that shuttle in one volley, the pilot just has to keep his wits about him during the mining op, and target anything approaching his gang's cans, so when the theft occurs (and the UI flagging shows up) he just needs to hit F1-Fx. The combat ship can then "repatriate" the stolen ore to one of his gang's cans again (even if it becomes flagged itself, by taking from the thief's transfer-can). What is the accomplice hauler going to do -- attack the combat ship? If the escort ship doesn't like hanging about flagged, in case the theives refit for combat and return, it can just safespot and take a break for 15 mins.
Kiah Khan	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:30:00 - [16] Get creative with tractor beams! too bad mining barges are so slow or they could just pull the can around the belt until the ore thief got bored. And rather than get another account and steal ore, just use the other account to park a hauler next to your miner. You'll make a lot more isk that way.
Harisdrop	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:35:00 - [17] Goto you nearest Race ingame channel. If you are in Gallente space go there. Inform those that help noobs of your incident. There will be no more ore thieves. I call on this cause in the Race channels we are there for knowledge and gaining trust for the noobs. -------------------------- Whats funny is your heard it.
Kiah Khan	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:35:00 - [18] Or if you don't want to risk your combat ship to a pirate, or a pirate's gang that will warp in and wtfpwn your combat ship + get your ore, Just get a frig with a tractor beam to zip around the belt making it impossible for them to take your ore until they bet bored.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:43:00 - [19] No the can flagging works just as it should.... problem is that miners likes to sit alone in the belts, to solve the problem you can.... a) use a secure container... (below 0.7 ofcourse) b) have a friend in a nber battleship protecting the gang... (remember if someone steals your ore... the whole gang and your corp members CAN shoot the thief). ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:46:00 - [20] Originally by: turnschuh lol can flagging is indeed the stupidest thing ccp ever made. Agreed, this is such an exploitable "feature" Author of "The Apoc Guide"

Avae	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:52:00 - [21] beatify: Corvus is right. We carebears asked for can flagging and we've got to live with it (I hope.) Perhaps you did get hit by an actual ore theif but it's much more likely you got hit by a macro hunter. There are things you can do to limit your exposre to these types of players. 1. Join a real corp. Looking at your character info you're either an alt or you're too old to be in a noob corp. You'll have allies to mine with or at least people to comiserate with if your ore gets stolen. 2. Don't want to join a real corp, mine in low sec. Ores is better there and the increased danger makes the game more fun. You can solo mine in lowsec just have to be careful. 3. Talk in local. People who talk in local are generally not macro miners/isk farmers and macro hunters will not bother them. 4. Don't play 4 accounts at one time in any of these configurations: 3 BS and a hauler, 3 barges and a hauler, or 3 of anything and a hauler. Maybe you're not macroing but you're still sucking the roids dry in a system that probably has player corps in it. If they are mining/manufacturering corps they are going to get ****ed and retaliate. Instead logon with one account and chat in local. Make friends. Maybe even enjoy the game, instead of just ripping through the belts in the system. Above all have fun with the new system it does work both ways, Avae
beatify	Posted - 2005.12.21 19:53:00 - [22] hehe I think some people misunderstand me... if a thief comes with 2 accounts, 1 shuttle and a hauler (in a group) , he jettison a can beside me and move my ore can to his can. Then he use his hauler char to take all the ore from the shuttle's jettison can... Ofcourse I can kill the shuttle, but i can't touch the hauler! Since the hauler is in the same gang as the shuttle, so the hauler can take all the ore from the shuttle's can without getting flagged...So there really is no point touching that shuttle...right? Hope you understand what I mean...
Happysin	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:01:00 - [23] Beatify, kill the shuttle before it moves the ore. If they really are using just a shuttle, you can plink that shuttle before it can move any signifigant amount ore about.
Jarnis McPieksu	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:01:00 - [24] Get a corpmate with a bigger battleship to gang with you and mop up the thief. This is not a solo game.
Sidaiaon	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:08:00 - [25] Originally by: beatify hehe I think some people misunderstand me... if a thief comes with 2 accounts, 1 shuttle and a hauler (in a group) , he jettison a can beside me and move my ore can to his can. Then he use his hauler char to take all the ore from the shuttle's jettison can... Ofcourse I can kill the shuttle, but i can't touch the hauler! Since the hauler is in the same gang as the shuttle, so the hauler can take all the ore from the shuttle's can without getting flagged...So there really is no point touching that shuttle...right? Hope you understand what I mean... Here is what I would do. First, make sure you got a buddy in a BS out there and have him sit right on top of your can. When the shuttle takes the ore, you buddy nukes him and you move the ore back into your can. Yhea, you'd need to be quick, but if you click fast enough(and you can double click on cargo cans to open them) you'll get your ore back in you can before the hauler can touch it. After that, I'd start begging the hauler to steal my ore. Because there would be nothing more satisifying then blowing his ore stealing ass out of space.
BOOM SHALAKA	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:16:00 - [26] Originally by: Happysin Beatify, kill the shuttle before it moves the ore. If they really are using just a shuttle, you can plink that shuttle before it can move any signifigant amount ore about. You can move an entire jetcan full of 27000m3 in a half of a second. Even with a shuttle. As long as both jetcans are deployed you just move it from one can to the other and accept the criminal flagging prompt.. then presto, the whole bunch switched cans instantly. Then hauler picks it up and CONCORD takes over if you try to defend yourself.
Happysin	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:18:00 - [27] Originally by: BOOM SHALAKA Originally by: Happysin Beatify, kill the shuttle before it moves the ore. If they really are using just a shuttle, you can plink that shuttle before it can move any signifigant amount ore about. You can move an entire jetcan full of 27000m3 in a half of a second. Even with a shuttle. As long as both jetcans are deployed you just move it from one can to the other and accept the criminal flagging prompt.. then presto, the whole bunch switched cans instantly. Then hauler picks it up and CONCORD takes over if you try to defend yourself. Er, you're right, I'm a dork. I was, for some reason, thinking it had to be moved to the ship first.
Jennai	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:18:00 - [28] Originally by: BOOM SHALAKA Originally by: Happysin Beatify, kill the shuttle before it moves the ore. If they really are using just a shuttle, you can plink that shuttle before it can move any signifigant amount ore about. You can move an entire jetcan full of 27000m3 in a half of a second. Even with a shuttle. As long as both jetcans are deployed you just move it from one can to the other and accept the criminal flagging prompt.. then presto, the whole bunch switched cans instantly. Then hauler picks it up and CONCORD takes over if you try to defend yourself. if you're too slow to get the thief, blow up your own can before he can take it. ------- macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel
Irotar	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:22:00 - [29] I just wish I had can flagging the first time i decided to get even on an ore thief in .5 space with my hard earned cruiser. Man, nothing like firing the first two volley of missiles at the asteroid, realising your mistake trying to fire at the indy anyway and watching him warp out with hull left and seeing concord angrily blowing you away. Although, I still felt better having shot at him, even if I nubbined it all up and failed. (useful info added to topic? none! Fun remembering good times in Eve, one point!)
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2005.12.21 20:26:00 - [30] Originally by: beatify hehe I think some people misunderstand me... if a thief comes with 2 accounts, 1 shuttle and a hauler (in a group) , he jettison a can beside me and move my ore can to his can. Then he use his hauler char to take all the ore from the shuttle's jettison can... Ofcourse I can kill the shuttle, but i can't touch the hauler! Since the hauler is in the same gang as the shuttle, so the hauler can take all the ore from the shuttle's can without getting flagged...So there really is no point touching that shuttle...right? Hope you understand what I mean... Cant u just pop the shuttle and drag the ore back into a can of yours? - Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius)



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