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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.23 04:57:00 -
[1]
The stacking nerf brings us to a new way of fighting in pvp. we no longer see 8dmg mod geddens or 7 dmg mod blasterthrons ect
recently in pvp [lone and small group] my targets have been getting away from me more and more often, because they are stabbing up.
no longer is it safe to scramble for one or two. it is more and more often required to scramble for 4 to be on the safe side.
i do not like this trend one bit:
 at first i blamed the players, aassumeing that they are being cowards and stabbing up.
but then i looked at my setups. now i have a light [very light] tank on my sniperthron,
have backup arrays on my domis spare low slots. [ in short, things that make it a little less likely that EW effects you, or something that lets u live 20% longer]
now thinking of the people ive been fighting that have been getting away. they are actually not gimping their setups. there is nothing else that is actually as usefull as the stab [hate to admit it]
now this worries me, too many ships are stabbing up, with good reason.
its making pvp too lame. today we spoted a deimos, i tracked it down to a belt, warped in, damped it, scrambed for 1. called in a tempest to jump in, which also scrambled for 1. total of 2 pts. and he warped off 
we then track him down again really quickly, by now we have a megathron with a 20km desrupter too. we get him again. for 3 points, and he warps off.
now we chace him a lil more, but its getting boring, we cant hold him in position.
i see this happening a lot in pvp in the near future, and it doesnt please me at all
and you cant just fit more scramblers, since mid slots are more valuable vs low slots because of teh stacking neft
infact i may change my megas lows from, 3dmg mods, 3 tracking enhancers + rep. to 3 dmg mod, rep + 3wcs
it just makes sense to stab up [now PA can say they new abaout the stacking nerf wAyyyyy before it hit TQ so they where using it before RMR 
now its early days, but this is too common atm, and i suspect will be more common
if indeed it turns out that the average BS out there has 3+stabs then this game is gona get very very boring for me
ill wait a month and hope the stab abuse slows or stops.
if stabs become common setup on bs, as i suspect they will, then imo we will need a change to propulshion jamming [perhaps introduce a low slot mod that does +1 strengh to warp jammers]
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:04:00 -
[2]
Lone ship = travel setup
its a good rule of thumb...
if you want to kill someone that dosnt want to figth
then you should have to put some effort into killing them...
people just dont want to get killed... simple as that...
____________
The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
DrakeZakharov
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:16:00 -
[3]
Much as i hate to say it ... the age of the Core stab is upon us ... unless there are bubbles or LOTS of ships to hold down your prey, fighting someone who doens't want to be fought is going to be even harder than it already was, since as Gronsak says theres only so much stuff you can mount with the new stacking penalty, especially if you shield tank ...
I still think WCS should work like a cloak , in that you can't fire or run your tank when they are active , so you have to pick the right moment to get out or watch your ship burn ;). Or maybe make them only activatable when you are in hull damage... what with the lack of resist and all you better be sure you have enough WCS strength to get out...
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Josarian Lysandor
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:20:00 -
[4]
Are you telling me Pilots of Dishonour doesn't know how to tackle?
Anyway, I don't see this is a problem really. People are way too attached to kill mails. You don't need to kill the ship to win the battle.
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer. |
Zavernus Hamarabi
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:50:00 -
[5]
I dont want to get blown up. Some guy wants to blow me up, therefore i shouldnt use modules that help me not get blown up because of that?
WTB Cool sig :/ |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.23 05:56:00 -
[6]
"Much as i hate to say it ... the age of the Core stab is upon us ... unless there are bubbles or LOTS of ships to hold down your prey, fighting someone who doens't want to be fought is going to be even harder than it already was"
Or instead of 3 battleships hunting single cruiser like in the given example, it'll be 2 battleships + interdictor (or Stiletto with 3 scramblers for those without the 'dictor)
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.12.23 06:00:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: j0sephine
Or instead of 3 battleships hunting single cruiser like in the given example, it'll be 2 battleships + interdictor (or Stiletto with 3 scramblers for those without the 'dictor)
Interceptors are overpowered, they do better than a BS, told yah 
Would it be like they said, mixed fleets should be better...
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Check for updates/known issues, feedback welcome. |
Kager o
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Posted - 2005.12.23 06:56:00 -
[8]
I await the interdictor hoards with open arms
Friend or Foe.....theres still a toll |
Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2005.12.23 07:02:00 -
[9]
It is time for TomB's Propulsion Jammin reform..
Just make a show info on your ship, and you will see your propulsion type and strenght.. that is there because tehre were a plan to reform scrambling..
Personaly i think it was a nice idea... scramblers would work like jammers work now. It would be racial, and multi scramblers with fallof and optimal...
WCS like backup array.. so you can stop someoen with 1 scrambler, but it have a low chance, but even if you fitt 8 WCS, you are not 100% safe..
All like jamming... I say BRIG IT ON.. it is time now.
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This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation in any way.
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Kael D'mende
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Posted - 2005.12.23 09:21:00 -
[10]
*snip*
Originally by: DrakeZakharov
I still think WCS should work like a cloak , in that you can't fire or run your tank when they are active , so you have to pick the right moment to get out or watch your ship burn ;). Or maybe make them only activatable when you are in hull damage... what with the lack of resist and all you better be sure you have enough WCS strength to get out...
Should the same apply for scramblers ?
/Kael
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Venril
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Posted - 2005.12.23 09:27:00 -
[11]
Just wait till interdictors show up. These might make stab users cry.
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Forsch
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Posted - 2005.12.23 10:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venril
Just wait till interdictors show up. These might make stab users cry.
Only in 0.0, which sucks.
I'd also love to see the propulsion thing being implemented.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.23 11:02:00 -
[13]
Solutions
Interdictors
Real tacklers (Stiletto with 2x 7.5km scram)
More group combat (=more scram total on a target)
Loading sig, please wait... |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.23 11:12:00 -
[14]
i agree witht gron,
and interdictors cant b the solution,
not every corp can have plenty of em ( im glad we can..)
as it is now, and will even more b in the future - the small groups and solo pvping like 1-3 persons become more or less useless as the enemie just have to kill the tackler, which isnt hard and then ur bses are as dangerous as a veldrock.
but again, the combat stabbers need a nerf, not the travel setups.
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Hellraiza666
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Posted - 2005.12.23 11:33:00 -
[15]
another solution would be to use a bubble and not be a ***** and use a sniperthron.... maybe use a blasterthron, which is only thing a megathron should be used for
im reporting you for cruelty against mega's, using them to snipe is a crime 
--------------------------------------------
In War There Are No Runners Up...
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:02:00 -
[16]
bubbles cant b used in empire, as interdictors cant b, too.
also bubbles simply doesnt work in many situations.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
another solution would be to use a bubble and not be a ***** and use a sniperthron.... maybe use a blasterthron, which is only thing a megathron should be used for
im reporting you for cruelty against mega's, using them to snipe is a crime
what are u talking about
i am a blastherthron pilot more often than a sniperthron pilot.
but sadly this isnt true for 90% of mega pilots
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quellious
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:10:00 -
[18]
Hi all,
So, that's the 'Nerf WCS' post again ...
Here is what i notice :
- You missed the deimos because he had WCS, but brough another BS and not a tackler to catch it ... and you do that error twice.
You should realize that :
- PvP involves fleet, and not just a group of BS. Mix your ship type if you want to catch something.
- Many people seems to consider that being more or in bigger ships almost provide you the automatic right to win a fight, whereas the way you play should do it. If you are still unable to win when 3vs1, and lose 1vs1 with the same player, you only show that you are not playing well.
- WCS allow to build many different tactics, even in fighting. You can kill some small ships on a gate/station camping and escape.
- WCS also makes tacklers (few skilled / poor players ?) usefull in fleet. Just share the PvP fun not only with BS enable players.
- EvE is already a lot orriented to PvP, and losing a single ships costs quite a lot of play time compared to other online games. WCS balances that a litthe bit.
Lastly, some players (me included) considers that winning a battle / war involves moral more than the number of kills. Keep people using WCS and wasting PvP potential of their ships, and soon or later you'll win the fight.
C u
quellious
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: quellious
Hi all,
So, that's the 'Nerf WCS' post again ...
Here is what i notice :
- You missed the deimos because he had WCS, but brough another BS and not a tackler to catch it ... and you do that error twice.
You should realize that :
- PvP involves fleet, and not just a group of BS. Mix your ship type if you want to catch something.
- Many people seems to consider that being more or in bigger ships almost provide you the automatic right to win a fight, whereas the way you play should do it. If you are still unable to win when 3vs1, and lose 1vs1 with the same player, you only show that you are not playing well.
- WCS allow to build many different tactics, even in fighting. You can kill some small ships on a gate/station camping and escape.
- WCS also makes tacklers (few skilled / poor players ?) usefull in fleet. Just share the PvP fun not only with BS enable players.
- EvE is already a lot orriented to PvP, and losing a single ships costs quite a lot of play time compared to other online games. WCS balances that a litthe bit.
Lastly, some players (me included) considers that winning a battle / war involves moral more than the number of kills. Keep people using WCS and wasting PvP potential of their ships, and soon or later you'll win the fight.
C u
quellious
you have no idea what u are talking about
1. we had a tackler and 2 bs scrambling him
2. this is not about a ONE OFF case, lots of fights we have had seem to have stabed up more than was done before rmr
3. dont teach me how to pvp
4. hacs tend to kill tacklers fast, so u cant just send in 5 tacklers, cos tehy will all die to a good hac pilot
5. if this trend of wcs.ing continues, its gona get boring, ships destroyed will be halfed and mineral prices will drop in half effecting nearly everyone in game
6. dont teach me how o pvp
7. this isnt a whine as such, just a observation and conculsion that stabbing up will be mroe common since it now actually makes sense to do so,
8. we need to wait longer and see if this problem is gona grow or not. but for the pvp we have done since rmr, at lest half the people had stabs
9 dnt teach me how to pvp
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:20:00 -
[20]
I'll make sure to bookmark this thread, to link it in whatever "battleships should always kill smaller ships easily for whatever reason should be the only reason accepted as logical" thread I come across. Some battleship pilots can't understand that when their ship are made too powerful against smaller ship size, they'll have to tackle with their battleships, bringing complains as the one made by the OP. Smaller ships being faster, they can use +2 strength scramblers, can't they?
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Check for updates/known issues, feedback welcome. |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
I'll make sure to bookmark this thread, to link it in whatever "battleships should always kill smaller ships easily for whatever reason should be the only reason accepted as logical" thread I come across. Some battleship pilots can't understand that when their ship are made too powerful against smaller ship size, they'll have to tackle with their battleships, bringing complains as the one made by the OP. Smaller ships being faster, they can use +2 strength scramblers, can't they?
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
your beig dumb, this has nothing to do with size of ships at all. infact how did u come to this conculsion?
its my observation that ppl have been stabing up [mostly BS]
i think this will have a big effect on eve pvp and it will be bad
yet somehow ur trying to turn this isnt a anti BS thred. WTF go away this is about modules even frigs can fit
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:23:00 -
[22]
You need a dic my friend. Or perhaps a 'Tackler.'
I agree that you will be seeing more stabs, but that is just until the interdictors show up. Then you will be seeing less since they wont be that useful. You may start seeing more MWD
I wonder if there will be webbifying spheres? Or why not ECM spheres and armor repair spheres...
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:28:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/12/2005 12:32:02
Originally by: Gronsak
your beig dumb, this has nothing to do with size of ships at all. infact how did u come to this conculsion?
its my observation that ppl have been stabing up [mostly BS]
i think this will have a big effect on eve pvp and it will be bad
yet somehow ur trying to turn this isnt a anti BS thred. WTF go away this is about modules even frigs can fit
"Being considered an idiot by many a fool is sensual delight to the eyes of accomplished epicures" - G. Courteline.
Edit: Sadly I can't translate that very well.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Check for updates/known issues, feedback welcome. |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
You need a dic my friend. Or perhaps a 'Tackler.'
I agree that you will be seeing more stabs, but that is just until the interdictors show up. Then you will be seeing less since they wont be that useful. You may start seeing more MWD
I wonder if there will be webbifying spheres? Or why not ECM spheres and armor repair spheres...
what the hell are u talking about
a tackler with 4pt of scram is no good vs a bs with 4pts of wcs
how do tacklers help?
and to the guys saying use teh 7.5 -2pt.
they can only really be fit onto frigs/cepters cos they are very range dependant so u need to be fast
no matter what ship[ im in. if a frig/cepter/cruiser gets within 9km of me, it is dead
infact the chance of a cepter/frig survivng me orbiting at 11km is GREATLY more than 9km or less
thus close range tacklers = dead tacklers in my experience
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Tachy
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gronsak
[...]
now this worries me, too many ships are stabbing up, with good reason.
[...]
So you come here to tell us that preparing for escaping actually works out as planned under some circumstances - like having enough low slots filled with wcs?
News for you: Some pilots don't like being pinned down and having their ships and pods shot to pieces.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/12/2005 12:28:48
Originally by: Gronsak
your beig dumb, this has nothing to do with size of ships at all. infact how did u come to this conculsion?
its my observation that ppl have been stabing up [mostly BS]
i think this will have a big effect on eve pvp and it will be bad
yet somehow ur trying to turn this isnt a anti BS thred. WTF go away this is about modules even frigs can fit
"Being considered an idiot by many a fool is sensual delight to the eyes of accomplished epicures" - G. Courteline.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
"you are a noob" - - gronsak.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Gronsak
[...]
now this worries me, too many ships are stabbing up, with good reason.
[...]
So you come here to tell us that preparing for escaping actually works out as planned under some circumstances - like having enough low slots filled with wcs?
News for you: Some pilots don't like being pinned down and having their ships and pods shot to pieces.
do u pvp? becuase in anything but a fleet of > 10cepters. u would be able to hold down more than 3bs
now that is gona get very boring. u jump in, scramble a mega for 4pts, the mofo warps away
where is the fun in that.
infact as the bob guy pointed out, the t2 destroyers may fix this prob
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Ede'Ebu
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:36:00 -
[28]
Gotta love the lamer PKers who complain about WCS. I personally hope they stay the same just to **** you guys off. Guess you guys need to find new tactics instead of the same lamer tactics you have used for the past couple of years since release.
This is EVE its everchanging as are the technologies. Learn to adapt and quit whining!
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gronsak
thus close range tacklers = dead tacklers in my experience
Insults aside, you just proved my point, thus proved yourself wrong. Good day sir, don't start fire when you could burn yourself.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Check for updates/known issues, feedback welcome. |
Quaren
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Posted - 2005.12.23 12:48:00 -
[30]
first off to everyone that says that if the enemy warps you win probably hasn't played this game at all. If someone invades our claimed space we haven't won until he is dead. if he warps he can still come back any time and start making trouble again. same applies for any type of combat anywere other then the test server or friend vs friend "test setup" combat.
Do wcs ruin the game?
No, you have to be able to travel "safely" if you want to. The problem is that wcs are too good at what they do. I would gladly see the same changes on scrambling as on jamming. So someone might get away that wouldn't have before but you still have the chance to get him again later.
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