Recently, many ethnic Minmatar have claimed that the wave of retributive violence against them throughout the Gallente Federation is a culmination of long-standing prejudice.

Federation Minmatar report describes widespread discrimination within the Federation.

Source
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/federation-minmatar-report-widespread-discrimination

The Article says:
"The Republic Tribal Council has demanded an investigation be launched into discrimination against Minmatar in the Federation."

Is this Demand to be Enforced by Dreadnoughts ?

Or is it to be enforced by Titans this time ?

The Empire's real legacy on the Matari people has been to leave them in the position of being second-class citizens just about everywhere.

The Empire's real legacy on the Matari people has been to leave them in the position of being second-class citizens just about everywhere.

More like fourth-class citizens.

And you can blame the Gallente and Jovians for interrupting things, why, without their meddling, the Minmatar might have indeed become second-class citizens, just like say, Khanid are.

Hurr.

Not in the Kingdom, we aren't. Back to your kennel, Blooder.

Oh, the Federation is displaying its real face once again.

First they attacked peoples of Caldari origin, but after they found, that they are too hard and they are breaking their teeth on our nuts, they switched to minmatars.

Lets see, how it will turn out.

And once again, I repeat, that the time, when all nations should stay united to repel the Federation, has come. We need to forget our differences and crush the Federation together, as a union of sentient humans against gallentean villainy!

They must be judged by all of us. And they must pay for their crimes against humanity.

Since the Kingdom has never been ruled by someone from the Khanid bloodline, it could be argued that you are indeed second class citizens.

Not that I would make such an argument of course.

Back to your kennel, Blooder.

The Minmatar seem so well-suited to playing the victims it can be difficult to discern at times when they are and when they aren't.

Especially when the typical responses to criticism as regards the Minmatar people is the logical fallacy along the lines of:

"You disagree with the opinions or actions of the Minmatar or Republic? Obviously you are an agent of the Amarrian oppressors and a supporter of slavery!"

I don't see it so much as a "bandwagon" as much as the Matari themselves being apparently incapable of debate outside of moral outrage and allegations that any and all opponents are, "Slavers".

Honestly what's next? A Matari anywhere in the cluster cannot face arrest or due process under the laws of the nation they find themselves in because they're always the victim in life and require special dispensation unless that arrest constitute slavery?

And you can blame the Gallente and Jovians for interrupting things, why, without their meddling, the Minmatar might have indeed become second-class citizens, just like say, Khanid are.

Only on the IGS can a thread about Minmatar victims of ethnic violence still be distorted into "MINMATAR ARE BAD!"

Intergalactic "Summit", my ass. Intergalactic sounding board and bandwagon.

Funny, I thought the bandwagon on here the last few years was "**** the Federation".

The Federation has done a pretty good job against defending itself against Caldari aggression

Double incorrect.
First: It is the Federation, who are aggressors and attacked our home planet, twice already. We are just taking back what is rightfully ours. This is not aggression. What the Federation does - is.
Second: While the Federation had succeed for the first time, second time they did horrible job failed. The planet is still partially under our control.
But I hope it will be changed soon and the remaining federal occupants will be either booted into open space, or will sink in their own blood.
What they did good job in, is killing our citizens. And for this they will pay.

Returning to the aggression, soon you will see it. The Caldari aggression will begin, when you will see our fleets on low orbits of Gallente Prime and Villore, preparing for orbital bombardment with following launching of numerous dropships, that will cover the sun.

But even then it won't be real aggression.

It will be JUSTICE

You're so cute when you get all worked up like this.

Only on the IGS can a thread about Minmatar victims of ethnic violence still be distorted into "MINMATAR ARE BAD!"

And this is why the Federation must be destroyed!

The day our would-be Republic stands toe-to-toe with the Empire, or with the giant of the Federation, in intimidation and able to make demands, THEN we can talk about equal rights...

Until then, if they aim to stop us, we stop running and stop them.

She has a point, there are a lot of Federation Matari complaining about discrimination. This is something that has to be taken seriously.

Where her line of reasoning goes off the tracks, in my opinion, is that she seems to see it as an issue for the Republic, where (presumably) you and I see it as a matter for the Federation to resolve. Her couching it in terms of conflict, and lumping it together with the issues that plague Republic-Amarr relations, are what's interesting here.

And now in an effort to also help those of us who need to respond to the stupid drivel that people like Kim, Strife and Caine post, a similar system:

A. Go **** yourself.
B. Don't you have (insert immoral/perverse activity) to do?
C. That response was so stupid that it lowered my IQ by 20 points simply by reading it.
D. No U!

I think I'll just go with 'A' in this case. Have a nice day!

Recent issues where Matari inside the Federation are crying out for equal rights sparked the statement.

Where was this tolerance whose lack you decry in others, when millions of your own kin freed by a new and victorious Empress returned?

Those who came to the former Republic GÇïseeking succorGÇï, that held their faith were treated like sick cattle, or worse.

We know our sins little sister, see you your own. GÇï

They said as much about the Udorian. Now there's a Udorian heir.

My aunt Lida always says you've got to take the long view.

As far as a Brutor heir, I'd say that's up to the Brutor. The Tash-Murkons weren't simply awarded patents of nobility randomly, they're noble because they deserve it. But a good example of the future of Matari in the Empire is the Ammatar Mandate. Give them a few hundred years, and you'll start seeing a lot more of the sort of equality you're talking about.

Perhaps there are some Brutor who'd like to take their chances waiting for the Empire to humour them. I imagine there's a fair few who'd rather be somewhere other than the Empire. Both are valid desires.

What I object to is that they don't have a choice in the matter.

but there's actually a reasonable proportion of Minmatar in the Empire and associated bodies that are content where they are without being chained down. You think every freed slave automatically goes running back to the Republic?

Read my post again. I never denied that.

Someone's gotta say it...

...but our economy and all was just fine before, well... you know...

Someone's gotta say it...

...but our economy and all was just fine before, well... you know...

...Yes, we know. They're still finding little pieces of it on Mekhios to this day.

Before Shakor started funneling money and supplies intended for your people to fund his pet capital fleet?

Yes, we know. They're still finding little pieces of it on Mekhios to this day.

Group-thinking Minmatar? Pilot, I believe you have us confused with a different group. I assure you that our opinions are as varied as any other society. Although we (mostly) speak and act as a unified people during times of national crisis, during normal times there's great difference of opinion between individuals, clans and Tribes.

Instead of living in a perpetual state of denial and victim blaming, I'd recommend actually investigating the allegations of discrimination rather than simply dismissing them out of hand. According to official census figures Matari make up a third of the Federation's population. That's a rather substantial segment of Gallentean society to treat so dismissively.

Even if Federal citizens such as yourself don't see any need for action I'm pretty certain that the politicians courting this huge block of voters will see things differently.

This will not end well.

Double incorrect.
First: It is the Federation, who are aggressors and attacked our home planet, twice already. We are just taking back what is rightfully ours. This is not aggression. What the Federation does - is.
Second: While the Federation had succeed for the first time, second time they did horrible job failed. The planet is still partially under our control.
But I hope it will be changed soon and the remaining federal occupants will be either booted into open space, or will sink in their own blood.
What they did good job in, is killing our citizens. And for this they will pay.

Returning to the aggression, soon you will see it. The Caldari aggression will begin, when you will see our fleets on low orbits of Gallente Prime and Villore, preparing for orbital bombardment with following launching of numerous dropships, that will cover the sun.

But even then it won't be real aggression.

It will be JUSTICE

The onus is on the Federation to change itself to be true to its ideals. We can pat ourselves on the back for being the most open, democratic and diverse society in the universe, but the rest of the cluster don't care about our self-congratulations but about our actions. Sadly the current administration don't seem to get that.

I hope our Matari brothers and sisters will have the patience to stand by us while we try to find our way again.

There are many ideologies in the Federation, and the leadership at any one given point don't necessarily represent the Federation as a whole.

Pray tell, remind me what onerous acts the present administration has committed to earn your scorn?

Or are you just another Gallente self hater making excuses for tribal bad behavior?

Pray tell, remind me what onerous acts the present administration has committed to earn your scorn?

Or are you just another Gallente self hater making excuses for tribal bad behavior?

By conflating class unrest with ethnic unrest, you are creating "tribal bad behavior".

Mr Darkefyre, thank you - but I was in fact talking about the Republic as well. I think we all benefit from trying to strengthen the bonds with our friends.

My fellow citizen... are you aware that such a thing will not happen? Are you also aware that if it did come to pass millions would simply die for nothing? A massive space battlefield were thousands upon thousands of ships would be destroyed just for the sake of satisfying some old feud.

We are not arrogant like the Amarr and we are certainly not bloodlusting Matari warmongers ( not that i hold all Matari to this same standard ) .. we are Caldari and while united we should fight with purpose and with our brains..

In case you haven't noticed Miss Kim, by attacking the Federation you are poking around the sides of a monster that once awakened and propped into gear will strike back with such force that will send our fleets back reeling from the blow.

Like it or not we need the Gallente just as much as we need the Matari and... regretfully in many aspects the Amarr.

You speak as a traitor!

I had believed it would have been better for the Gallente Administration to primarily focus on ways of reducing tension within their own borders.

Staying true to your founding principles and treating all of your citizens equally regardless of their origins or beliefs..

And yes, I'm fully aware the Republic is just as guilty of this. It's something both nations need to work upon.

My fellow citizen... are you aware that such a thing will not happen? Are you also aware that if it did come to pass millions would simply die for nothing? A massive space battlefield were thousands upon thousands of ships would be destroyed just for the sake of satisfying some old feud.

Both sides are guilty and the crime is lack of understanding, while I as Caldari do frown upon the past history of the Gallente and Caldari people I am also a realist and the future does not lie by any means in confrontation but cooperation, profitable cooperation for both sides.

They have committed a crime against humanity. Their government should be deposed and everyone involved in this so called "operation highlander" should be put under tribunal with public hearing, so all cluster will know about their crimes.

Keeping Tribal fleets out of Federal territory might help in this respect.

Interesting then isn't it that billions fled the "tolerance" of the former Republic for the alleged "inequality" of the Federation.

All right, try this one on for size: if the Empire were to release all its slaves, and even a quarter of those released returned to the Republic, it would result in the Republic's total collapse. I've stated in the past that mass release of slaves would be crippling to the Empire as well, but honestly I think it would benefit more.

The Republic's resources are stretched anyway. Last I heard, they were still relying on aid from the Federation. A sudden population increase of a third (from just that one quarter, mind you) would cause total chaos. More than that, and the Republic simply would not cope. I could actually see a mass exodus back to the Empire, because hey, we might be second class citizens there, but at least we get food and a roof over our heads.

The economics and logistics just don't add up. Simple as that.

And if you think that someone would willingly be a slave you are delusional.

I hope I am misinterpreting your statement here...but it seems like you wish to create peace by simply finding means of profit that outweigh any misgivings, rather than distancing yourself from our ancestor's actions.

There are far worse things to be. Walk down the average street in the Kingdom or Empire, go up to a slave, and ask if they'd prefer uncertainty, poverty and potentially prejudice for their beliefs, or the knowledge of a roof over their heads, food on the table and some degree of confidence in the future...

Well, it won't be unanimous either way, but human beings like certainties.

There are better ways to collect evidence for your argument than with the liberal use of leading questions.

The Amarrian economy is entirely built on the slave trade.

And if you think that someone would willingly be a slave you are delusional.

If you think that a small child would willingly go to bed on time, then you're probably delusional as well.

Does that mean that children should be allowed to decide when they go to bed?

You would also be delusional if you think that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo willingly go into exile or mutilate themselves.

So will you act against the Voluval?

I find this statement confusing.

Are you at the same time implying that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo that do not want to go into exile or mutilate themselves follow the same analogy and are like children that do not go willingly to bed on time ?

There are far worse things to be. Walk down the average street in the Kingdom or Empire, go up to a slave, and ask if they'd prefer uncertainty, poverty and potentially prejudice for their beliefs, or the knowledge of a roof over their heads, food on the table and some degree of confidence in the future...

Well, it won't be unanimous either way, but human beings like certainties.

You would also be delusional if you think that Minmatars with the wrong Voluval tattoo willingly go into exile or mutilate themselves.

So will you act against the Voluval?

Stockholm syndrome, and being institutionalized.

If there is one thing that Amarrians are good at it is making it's chains seem the better option.

Present the question as you have and who would chose poverty? Present the chains as salvation, and people will not resist as you shackle them.

You forget, I know how it works, for I too was taught.




Matar have walked willingly into exile and hardship for thousands of years to follow what god and the spirits has written on their skin.

Pick a better example.


And the story of the released slaves returning to the Empire is heartwarming, it truly is. Let them out at the nearest dock with nothing and assure yourself when they return to the only thing they have ever known, the cage.

As I said before, you will have to stop using examples straight out of the handbooks on indoctrination.

Pilot Ayallah, I'd actually say if there's one thing that the Amarr are good at, it's blaming the victim.

Peaceful, unthreatening spacefaring society doesn't follow Imperial culture? "Now look what you made me do!" Commence armed invasion and enslavement of their homelands.

A tribe demonstrates an end of their patience with centuries of brutal oppression, cultural destruction and unrewarded labour? "Now look what you made me do!" Commence orbital bombardment and genocide.

The society as a whole throws off its shackles and declares independence? "Now look what you made me do!" Obstruct and oppose in every possible way their recognition as an independent sovereign nation.

The new nation turns out to be fractious, in large part due to the fact that its residents were subject to a program of forcible cultural conversion intentionally designed to divest them of the skills that would allow them to survive independent of the Empire? "This is all your fault!"

You know what the most blackly amusing thing about the Empire is? If they had approached the Minmatar in the same way they had the Khanid - in the manner of offering peaceful incorporation into the Empire as valued allies - there's every possibility that it could have worked. Consider that the Minmatar had, at the point the Empire discovered them, reached a higher level of technological and cultural progression than any of the other societies they had encountered, and in some areas their technological understanding surpassed that of the Amarr. Allowing them into the Empire more or less as-is, allowing them to keep the majority of their culture intact, would have given the Amarr a vast amount of power, while affording excellent opportunities to the Minmatar.

The Amarr threw away the opportunity to become the undisputedly most powerful entity in New Eden and at the same time gained themselves a dangerous enemy due to their own stubborn self-obsession.

Matar have walked willingly into exile and hardship for thousands of years to follow what god and the spirits has written on their skin.

Pick a better example.

We used to have a saying:

"Sociocrat politics are about hitting those stronger than you, progressor politics are about hitting those weaker than you. Imperial politics are grabbing someone's arms and go, 'why are you hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself'."

You always were easily confused.

They were two separate points.

The first was that sometimes you have to make people do things they don't like for their own good.

The second was that any Minmatar who disagrees with the first point should perhaps get their own house in order before pointing their finger at others.