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Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
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Posted - 2013.08.10 15:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have no idea whether TEST will bounce back in the long term but all of the alliances that made it have had time in the doldrums. PL got booted out of Fountain, Goons fat-fingered their sov and has had CEOs that stole all the isk.
What will keep TEST together is people liking to play Eve in the alliance, hopefully some of us will continue to do so. I still think it's a somewhat pyrrhic victory for the CFC because the price of winning has been to clearly underline the pet status of the non-Goon members with bullying PAP stats and threats of punishment for under-performance. Maybe tyhat will come back to bite you one day.
As for shedding people (Mr left -A- when it got tough), it's never good to shed people wholesale. Especially because of losing. However there's always new people coming in if the bus gets turned around. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
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Posted - 2013.08.10 21:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well I'm sticking with Test for now. Can't say it's dull
I'm still FCing fleets and actually put in for promotion yesterday so hopefully I'll get to cross swords with you chaps again. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
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Posted - 2013.08.11 01:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Callduron wrote:Well I'm sticking with Test for now. Can't say it's dull I'm still FCing fleets and actually put in for promotion yesterday so hopefully I'll get to cross swords with you chaps again. Ah good. Get some rank and you, too, can join TEST leadership in Sniggerdly, a member of Pandemic Legion.
Doesn't seem like my cup of tea. Really like fighting them though, hope we get more chances to shoot PL. My first fleet with Test was against Sniggwaffe. (Not quite the same I know but they got some PL help once they started losing ships). CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
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Posted - 2013.08.11 01:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Leonidas Webb wrote:Here are a few tips for TEST to aid in thier recovery.
1). Most importantly you must have goals. Not the "we shall rule the universe and get revenge on those that did this to us" sort, but honest, realistic, achievable goals for short, intermediate, and long term.
2). You need trustworthy, accountable leadership willing to do what is necessary to achieve those goals.
3). "Trim the fat" - in essence, first boot anyone that is severely inactive, then boot anyone whose agenda is not in line with the completion of your goals.
4). Learn who your friends are and treat them with gratitude and respect.
5). Learn and grow from every encounter as both victory and defeat are useful and informative and an excellent resource for strengthening your alliance if viewed objectively.
I could keep going but that should be more than enough to point you in the right direction.
Really interesting to see other people's perspectives but I don't think we can quite follow all your advice.
1) Yup, immediate goals seem to be iskbuilding and pvp/FC development.
2) We really like Boodabooda at the grunt level. Even people who have left because of leadership have said they like Boodabooda but not the others. Feels like we're turning the management thing around.
3) Inactives maybe but we're unlikely to boot people ever for not toeing the party line. At the heart of Test is the Reddit community and the feeling that if you're active on Reddit you're in. We cater to all types of players from the very casual to the very hardcore.
4) Blue everyone you mean? We've had two coalitions and both times we got fed up. I do think our leaders should have a healthy dialogue with the movers and shakers of nullsec but personally I'd like it if no one in null felt completely safe from us.
5) we have a ton of work to do on learning from our gameplay experiences. I don't even think we're that good yet at learning how to learn - we could do in the FC team with being more of a cadre, so we can discuss FCing issues, so we can learn from our colleagues mistakes as well as our own. I think it's slowly coming but moving a large organisation is a gradual process.
I'll get mocked for this but in some ways that's why it's good to be freed from the responsibilities of sov. It's hard to figure out very complicated difficult multi-department tasks like super fishing when mired in day-to-day. I'm hoping we'll be able to raise our game during our spell in the wilderness.
I do think there's a lot of Eve who doesn't want to see us wither and die partly because our recklessness makes nullsec a more kill-rich environment and partly because we do a tremendous amount to bring people into this hobby. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
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Posted - 2013.08.11 08:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Leonidas Webb wrote:TIn the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend,
Gosh that sounds horrible. Thank goodness I'm not playing this game in a metrics-driven organisation run by lawyers and accountants. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
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Posted - 2013.08.11 08:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Oh and ask PL nicely to stop poaching all tests best supercap owning members.
I honestly don't think they poach or have to poach.
It's just the comparison, when our managers are put under pressure it seems like historically TEST has become a place of blaming rivalry and failing to appreciate them. They look at the chilled out guys laughing and joking and drift there when TEST overloads them to burnout. It's not really fair to give volunteer staff a 24 hour a day 365 day a year job then yell at them when stuff doesn't happen fast enough.
It's probably the most important thing for Boodabooda to fix. For most people in TEST it's a really good alliance to be in, we need to make sure this is true at the top. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
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Posted - 2013.08.12 13:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again?
Andski is from Goons. Who blue anything with a pulse. (I mean Fweddit for instance, lol).
Test has made its bed by rejecting its blues. We could have been friends with Goons, we could have put up with Sort Dragon. We're driven by a desire for conflict and "narrative", I don't think any TEST leader to date would ever have wanted to put us in a position where we have a year of peace.
There are many many people in Eve who don't have sov because they choose not to blue everyone or because they're incompetent at bluing everyone. It's been a bit of both in our history.
Remember CFC is half the galaxy, Goons = Deklein, one small region. And even within Goons alliance there's a ton of impore pubbies - they're actually closer in culture to Wildly Inappropriate Reloaded than the pubbie-hating nihilists from the Something Awful forums. They put up with a ton of pubbie pets for political power and that's a house of cards that could quite easily change (if Mittani burned out and DJ took over for instance).
Sovlessness should give TEST the opportunity to jockey for new diplomatic advantage in the Game of Thrones that will one day emerge between the blue team that owns the left half of the sov map and the red team that owns the right side of the sov map. I'd love to see us play both sides off against the middle the way BL did in the Fountain war although that's just my opinion and currently we're blue to N3 and rather unrepentently Grr Goons. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
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Posted - 2013.08.12 13:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:Callduron wrote:Leonidas Webb wrote:TIn the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend,
Gosh that sounds horrible. Thank goodness I'm not playing this game in a metrics-driven organisation run by lawyers and accountants. How is that working out for you guys by the way?
I had one of the most fun days I ever had in Eve yesterday. First my carrier alt got tackled and the thing pointing it let me go after his dread friends sieged so I got to warp safe giving them the finger. I ran 3 fleets to help people get stuff out. The first one I got to dumpster my hero Kurator's gatecamp, killing his two tech 2 large bubbles and an eris, trading for a condor and an ibis while juggling billions of isk worth of evac fit refugees in safes. Next fleet I got to field test a doctrine idea which is always a great moment for a FC and out-manoeuvred a RIOT skirmish naga gang then bulled a gate camp killing T2 large bubbles while under Tornado fire, repping everyone like a mad thing and jumping my scythe out in structure seconds after the non-combat ships got through. The doctrine showed to advantage. And the last fleet, perhaps fortunately for my nerves, I got to fly everyone all the way to safety without losing anyone bar a blackbird who sat outside the forcefield for odell to bomb after I told him to come in.
Also spent 2 hours in a bomber gang hunting talwars and got blown up by odell in my vexor.
Some of you may have seen the EN24 piece or Gevlon's blog article comparing my take on the PR- fight ("woo hoo, I hero tackled Elo") with Baki Yuku's ("kill yourself if you think that was good"). TEST's situation is extremely frustrating for some of us, the power players, the progression-oriented people and so on but it's awesome for those of us who think jumping into a brawl with a badly fit Crucifier is a great thing to do and who can find the fun in fleeting up with friends and doing stuff. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
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Posted - 2013.08.12 14:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quite so, Worlds
(And in case I didn't say it before, thanks for the work you did in Li3). CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
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Posted - 2013.08.12 16:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Charles buddy you haven't turned into anything if memory serves me correctly. (I've forgotten your SA name and a quick google is not turning it up).
Isn't your history something like: Played Eve for a year Registered on SA 3 months later joined SA's Eve guild?
Long time ago, admittedly. But you've always been a pubbie who joined SA to play in their Eve guild.
And no, you can't join us, try Fweddit or Brave Newbies. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
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Posted - 2013.08.12 19:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
My point was as a J4G you don't get to take the moral high ground about pubbies. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
499
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Posted - 2013.08.12 20:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs
Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to.
I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
500
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Posted - 2013.08.13 05:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Andski wrote:Callduron wrote:Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to. I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was. GoonWaffe's purpose is for goons to have fun playing this game with other goons. That's it.
You're being disingenuous. "J4G" is a term that relates to the Something Awful forums, to people who joined those forums to unlock access to a game guild with no intention of becoming a member of the SA forum posting community. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
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Posted - 2013.08.13 05:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yup some good points, SmilingVagrant.
We do indeed need to get better at managing our blues. Diplomatic favour is a currency and we need to learn not to keep pouring it down the drain.
That said there were good reasons why TEST took the steps it did - we needed to grow and develop and become independent rather than, say, be the game's largest alliance still crashing in the Testagram and messing up goon comms.
It's been genuinely sad for TEST members how low we've fallen this time though, seeing friends seek new alignments that mean we won't really play Eve with them again.
For me TEST's number one priority, wherever we live and whoever we fight, has to be to become an alliance people really want to stay in - part of that being a necessary improvement in how we manage diplomacy. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
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Posted - 2013.08.13 07:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
No, I'm fine thanks. I got a medal. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
502
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Posted - 2013.08.13 21:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Andski wrote:on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends
I actually hope not.
I think TEST's best hope is in being diplomatically agile. Of course we still have a ton of people who want to hurt goons but pursuing a forever war reminds me of Monty Python's Black Knight, shouting come on then at King Arthur with his arms and legs cut off.
Maybe at some point we'll get to dump on a common target, the fount of all friendship in Eve. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
502
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Posted - 2013.08.13 21:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
@ Tara
I think certain aspects of Test are unalterably fixed. Lively talkative, lots of bad posts, those are core values of the Eve guild of the Reddit community and the pubbies it's brought along for the ride. So too we are committed to nullsec and Boodabooda has confirmed that Aridia is a pitstop on our way back to Sov.
That said immediate plans should see some lowsec shennanigans.
Your absolutely right about the friendships and we have a lot of people rooting for us. Even our enemies I think will miss us on the nullsec landscape.
I'm enjoying being involved in trying to turn it round. While I regret that so many of our deeply adored FCs have moved on it's a vacuum that us rookie FCs can try to fill.
Wish me luck, I'll need it. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
502
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Posted - 2013.08.14 13:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
William Walker wrote:The exodus has begun! Even BoodaBooda is leaving.
That's a photoshop of a mail that was published around a few hours before the version with BB's name in appeared.
CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
504
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Posted - 2013.08.15 14:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Keter Zero wrote:
If you brain that is road to recover you are in for unhappy wacking up.
Just FYI buddy, Google Translate isn't really a substitute for good posting.
Please keep such attempts to the Something Awful forums a community member of which you so clearly are. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
505
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Posted - 2013.09.02 14:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
I didn't exactly jump ship. I'm in the same corp, my corp decided we'd rather rent from N3 than continue with Test. It was a tough choice as everyone really likes TEST and I believe a couple of pilots are considering applying to TEST corps and leaving us.
For us it was mostly about economic stability. There's a lot of things you can't really do if you keep moving like PI, reactions, even low-mid range moon mining and we were also very fed up of packing things up and moving. I suspect that even if TEST's deployment to Curse goes well it will be followed by yet another move.
Becoming renters puts us in the weird position of being an asset rather than a defender - if Goons were to invade we could stay docked for a week then politely negotiate a new deal with our new landlords and carry on business as usual. We're a fixture of the system we live in, like an asteroid belt or something. I believe some of our neighbours have lived here for close to a decade under a succession of different landlords.
That's not to say we've given up pvp. We're going to focus in the short term on frig pvp in low sec plexes something a number of us are very keen on. It's very different from nullsec pvp and teaches players a lot about managing our own ships, using traversal and range to edge out an advantage over opponents which I think will be solid knowledge to have when we go back into battleships and battlecruisers. In some ways it's also quite nice to be apolitical - if we shoot someone it's because we feel like shooting people not because our empire is in mortal struggle with the dark empire. I'm hoping we can start scavenging the edges of other people's strat ops - rather like ENL-A did so very effectively at 1-SMEB where they picked off NC. reinforcements.
I realise that my posts and Toshiro's now may seem rather silly to look back on but I enjoyed posting and there always was a slight undercurrent of tongue in cheek braggadocio. And all you lot were doing it too - the difference is your side won so you aren't placed in the position of being embarassed by any daft tubthumping you did when the war hung in the balance.
That said there's considerable credit due to the CFC for the way you won the war so if you want to point at me and gloat enjoy the moment :) CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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Callduron
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
508
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Posted - 2013.09.03 10:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Callduron wrote:
[quote=Callduron]if Goons were to invade we could stay docked for a week then politely negotiate a new deal with our new landlords and carry on business as usual. We're a fixture of the system we live in, like an asteroid belt or something.
You're fine with that?
I think so.
I tend to view Eve from the perspective of a pvper and FC. If Goons invade I'd be thinking about what SEDNA could do to find some gameplay and fun in the situation. Now we're light blue so we can't shoot N3/PL so we'd be shooting the invaders. We also can't join fleets as we're not properly in the alliance so I'd be looking at small gang tactics for harassing larger opponents - bombers, nano, snipers, gate camps etc. I'd be advising my corp on how to get the maximum fun and effectiveness against the invaders.
But we're not actually in sov war as such. So if sov changed in our system it would make sense for us to negotiate a new deal with our conquerors, saving us from having to take our towers down, lose our pocos, move PI (which takes hours to set up) etc.
Once conquered we'd then (hypothetically) be blue to the CFC and neutral to N3.
As a FC looking for content I'd then be looking at how we could harass our neutrals around the fringes of the main sov war battles.
I'm not in charge of SEDNA though, I just help figure out how we fight stuff and take fleets out. Overall policy would come from our CEO and he might pursue other alternatives such as joining N3 as full members or accepting an alternative system in space that hasn't been conquered. He has good RL friends in N3.
How do renters normally manage a change of landlord? Or have renters up till now simply never fought in the sov wars that affect their systems? Until you asked, Alvaria, I'd not really thought of renters as conquerable military assets but in our case at least we probably are. Essentially 1) we shoot neuts 2) we're blue to the people who own our system 3) we dont want to move and 4) we're not part of some space empire as such, merely people who have a temporary business arrangement.
This all sounds terribly disloyal to N3 so I should stress again I'm not in charge. I'm just thinking through the logic of an unfamiliar situation. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
521
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Posted - 2013.10.02 02:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Rhes wrote:Callduron wrote:I enjoyed posting This is the only thing that matters. Someone should sponsor this guy.
No need. We're doing most of our pvp in low sec in frigates at the moment. My fits run to about 9m which I can afford very comfortably. I got through 3 tonight and we're enjoying ourselves enormously.
Or if you mean sponsor me to post, don't worry, I write plenty about Eve and have my own blog.
And I won't forget CAOD :) CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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