| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zarithas
   |
Posted - 2005.12.23 20:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zarithas on 23/12/2005 20:27:45
The Rifter, the Punisher, the Kestrel, and the Incursus. The 4 basic frigates anyone with a brain would use for PvP. I am planning to do lots of frigate piloting (probably with 1 or 2 other corpmates, if the target is too hard for me to take by myself) until all my Thorax skills are completely finished. If I like a certain frigate enough, I can put some of the Thorax skills on hold and train skills for that frigate.
Now, there is one big thing I really don't like on ships. And that is using missles along with turrets. I don't mind if a ship has a launcher spot, I can just put a nos there, but I want a ship that doesn't need both turrets and launchers to be effective, as i'd prefer not to train in both Gunnery and Missle skills.
I want this ship for belt piracy, which may be a dying art to some people, but i've done it before, and I definitely plan to continue doing that even with my Thorax. So, what frigate could do this job the best? I am willing to train in whatever skills I need to use the ship effectively, unless it involves training in both turrets and missles.
|
Lady Ariness
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 20:32:00 -
[2]
I'd say Rifter due to it's versatile slot layout and speed
|
Arisani
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 20:37:00 -
[3]
The Rifter is now imo the best t1 frigate.
It has great firepower (more than blaster incursus cause of high falloff).
It has mid slots for ab, warp scrambler, web
It has 3 low slots which allow for a number of things such as MAPCS with 2 slots to spare for other things. Or a armor tank: small rep, plate, your choice for last. How about fitting for damage?
|
Kyozoku
|
Posted - 2005.12.23 21:12:00 -
[4]
/signed
|
Zarithas
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 00:54:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Arisani
The Rifter is now imo the best t1 frigate.
It has great firepower (more than blaster incursus cause of high falloff).
It has mid slots for ab, warp scrambler, web
It has 3 low slots which allow for a number of things such as MAPCS with 2 slots to spare for other things. Or a armor tank: small rep, plate, your choice for last. How about fitting for damage?
Exactly what is falloff?
|
Zarthanon
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 00:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zarithas
Originally by: Arisani
The Rifter is now imo the best t1 frigate.
It has great firepower (more than blaster incursus cause of high falloff).
It has mid slots for ab, warp scrambler, web
It has 3 low slots which allow for a number of things such as MAPCS with 2 slots to spare for other things. Or a armor tank: small rep, plate, your choice for last. How about fitting for damage?
Exactly what is falloff?
Your guns have an optimal range, which is self explanitory. The falloff is how far the gun can hit effectively out of your optimal range. So if your gun has a optimal range of 15km and a falloff of 9km then the max range your gun can be effective at is 24km.
Originally by: ParMizaN
i mayv or may nit abe a bit drunk
Originally by: Buddrow
TO THETR DRUMNBS OF WAR WET GHO
|
Douglas Drake
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 02:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Douglas Drake on 24/12/2005 02:41:24
Quote:
Your guns have an optimal range, which is self explanitory. The falloff is how far the gun can hit effectively out of your optimal range. So if your gun has a optimal range of 15km and a falloff of 9km then the max range your gun can be effective at is 24km.
Actually, at range+fallout range your chance to hit is 50%. it drops to about 6% at range +2 x fallout.
Meaning it can still be worthwile to fire from over your range+fallout range (especially if that means you are out of range of missiles for example).
Anyway, this is all offtopic.
Ontopic: I kinda have a thing for the Kestrel, but I know the Rifter is up there as well, probably better in the hands of a skilled pilot who likes to use them.
|
Kor'Goth
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 02:53:00 -
[8]
I just can't believe that in this convo the Punisher never came up.. ship has a wonderful layout and 3 turret slots to boot. IMO Puni 4tw, after that rifter is a great bag of worms to throw at your opponent. The ability to switch your damage types will be invaluable vs. larger ship classes.
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 04:05:00 -
[9]
Say Rifter all you want. Unfortunatally none of them have the balance of speed/damage/endurance of the punisher. I've personally used the punisher in over 45 pirating activites ranging from omens to carcacals, battlecruisers to covetors. The lack of ammo is a life saver. The additional armor resistances and additional natural armor make tanking drones/their friends a peice of cake. Only once have I lost a punisher and it was due to explosive missiles that outdid my capacitor.
Underestimating the pirating endurance of the punisher would be an unwise idea. The rifter will never be able to withstand some of the damage non-miners can dish out.
--------------
|
Mikha'il Pelegius
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 04:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Mikha''il Pelegius on 24/12/2005 04:05:37
-nevermind, falloff question was answered-
----------------------
|
Ras Blumin
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 04:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
The rifter will never be able to withstand some of the damage non-miners can dish out.
Neither will the punisher.
p - l - u - r |
Josarian Lysandor
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 04:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kor'Goth
I just can't believe that in this convo the Punisher never came up.. ship has a wonderful layout and 3 turret slots to boot. IMO Puni 4tw, after that rifter is a great bag of worms to throw at your opponent. The ability to switch your damage types will be invaluable vs. larger ship classes.
The Punisher hurts in mid slots tho.
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer. |
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 04:46:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 24/12/2005 04:49:54
You must have missed the beginning of my post, or have selective reading.
My punisher has withstood Caracals, feroxs, omens, and similar due to the sheer enduring nature of the punisher. At a 500m orbit the major guns simply can't hit me and I have enough armor and cap recharge time to negate volleys of heavy/cruise missiles due to my speed and ship-size.
Quote:
The Punisher hurts in mid slots tho.
Afterburner, scrambler. You don't need anything else. If it's faster than you simply warp away.
--------------
|
Arisani
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 10:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
.
If it's faster than you simply warp away.
If anything can outdamage my tank in a rifter, well then, just warp away.
Not very good excuse...
|
R31D
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 13:02:00 -
[15]
Another advantage of Rifter over Punisher is to choose damage types. This may not sound like a lot but think about it. If you are attacking NPCers then they will have hardened resisitances to only 2x damage types. You can change your ammo to reflect upon this and so deal even more damage. I realise the Punisher can use AC's if it wants too with no penalties but the with the Rifter you'll be doing more damage with them
Free bumpage for all |
Meeko Gloom
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 14:53:00 -
[16]
go with tristan
2 named ions
2 named rocket launhers or a nos
1 MVD
1 Web
1 7.5 warp jammer
2 cap relay
1 repaier
Good hunting
________________________________________________
Gallente Empire is now hiring new members. Contact me for info |
Zarithas
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 15:01:00 -
[17]
I must've forgotten to tell you guys. I currently fly a Punisher, but I was seeing if there was another frigate that could beat it. After seeing all the posts, I think i'll just stick with the Punisher. The Punisher is working well for me at the moment, and i'll probably be using that 24/7 until I can get all these damn Drone, Gunnery, Learning, and Spaceship Command skills up for my Thorax.
|
Rasitiln
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 15:31:00 -
[18]
punisher or rifter. Though I think the slot layout my put the rifter slightly ahead of the punisher.
|
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 15:41:00 -
[19]
if you're solo, take a rifter. if your in a gang of 2, i'd take a rifter and a kestrel.
in a gang of 3, take a rifter, a kes and a griffin (ECM). that will make people cry. the griffin is a damn good ship - don't know why its so underused
|
Chinsor
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 15:51:00 -
[20]
Rifter is easily the best piracy frigate at the mo
---------------------------------------------
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 18:15:00 -
[21]
Quote:
If anything can outdamage my tank in a rifter, well then, just warp away.
Not very good excuse...
You don't pirate much, do you? The ratio of people out damaging a rifter (peice of cake) is much higher than a cruiser+larger moving faster than a frigate with an after burner. Therefore by your own philosophy, the rifter would have to disengage from more battles than the punisher.Unless you only pirate miners, in which case you are an inexperienced pirate that gives the rest of us a bad name.
Even webbed, the punisher's endurance makes or breaks the battle. The 'versatility' of the rifter's different damage types won't mean a thing when it's warping out due to damage and lack of resistances. Due to the punisher's high and balanced post-RMR resistances and natural additional armor, I'm not concerned with ganking damage. My victim will die bit by bit, knowing that there is not a thing in the world they can do to stop me. My cap with everything running can sustain itself at 90%, meaning the armor repairer is good for continual repair for up to nine minutes. The rifter won't touch that.
That's what counts in the end. Not faster damage, but that you survived long enough to make the kill. Don't believe me? Here's a kill from last night. Quote:
2005.12.24 05:44
Victim: *removed to show some dignity*
Alliance: None
Corp: Imperial Academy
Destroyed: Omen
System: Daran
Security: 0.2
Involved parties:
Name: Malka Badi'a (laid the final blow)
Security: -2.7
Alliance: None
Corp: Suffoco Noctis
Ship: Punisher
Weapon: Dual Light Pulse Laser I
Funny, a rifter could have used explosive damage to kill him but wouldn't have survived the light missiles and drones. Interesting that a ship using EM/Thermal damage to an armor tanking ship could tank the explosive missile and thermal drones (killed them off with multispectrals, versatility in range being another important attribute for pirating so that you don't have to leave victim orbit) and still make the kill.
--------------
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 18:32:00 -
[22]
Might as well release my setup, consider this a rare event:
2xmedium pulse laser (gamma initially)
1xdual-light pulse laser (gamma initially)
1xsmall nosferatu
1x1mn Afterburner
1xWarp Scrambler
1xSmall Armor Repairer
3xCapacitor Power Relays
Cargo: 3x Multispectral crystals, 3x Microwave crystals, 3x Infrared crystals
Explaination: Why not 3 medium beams for more damage? I'm not concerned with ganking as it unbalances situatons that involve tanking. Nos? It is what makes the difference between a near sustainable tank and a downed punisher. Why not a MWD? The signature penalty is far too large to keep it running continually and therefore is only useful for closing in. However, while webbed you will need to keep a solid speed to still avoid the cruiser+ gunfire. A webbed MWD rifter would run out of cap, and a rifter that shuts off his MWD while webbed is stuck slower than a webbed AB punisher, and thus dead. But you don't have a webber? No webber needed. If I have them scrambled then they almost always stay for the fight. If they honestly use a MWD to flee a punisher then I consider the battle won for something larger than a frigate running away from the engagement. Few ships are faster than a AB punisher during their rat hunting (thorax, a few omens are the only things that come to mind). The ships that are faster are few and far between, meaning those rare engagements are simply something I warp out of.
Three cap relays? You won't even break a mallers tank!!!11. Not true. The three relays allow sustained modules across the board and a very long term ability to also armor tank (8-9 minutes last test I ran). Damage mods would be nice, but that is what my multispectrals are for. It may not be he most amazing damage, but it's enough to break their tank while they watch themselves bleed to death. In the end, ganking or not, I tank their damage and they can't tank my damage.
The multi, gamma, microwave,infrared variety of crystals is primarily for anti-drone work. Multispecs make short work of most drones, but the other crystals allow for far more range adjustments than a rifters autocannons.
--------------
|
KilROCK
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 18:45:00 -
[23]
rare event? Sorry, but your setup has nothing special to it, infact it sucks pretty much.
|
Thercon Jair
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 18:49:00 -
[24]
If you have the armour compensation skills I'd go with the rifter. Those skills finally allow for a tank that's worth the word "tank" 
It's true that the rifter won't catch up with the punisher's resistances, but a punisher with the same compensation skills and modules won't be as far ahead of the rifter's tanking ability as it was before (reistance stacking penalty is the word). Never EVER fit an MWD to a minmatar ship (IMO), it definitely screws your already low cap and cap recharge.
Punisher is a nice frigate, if you have the skills already in there, stay with it. A web is not so important for it, especially if you go with small pulses, their tracking is unbeatable (if anything has you webbed then you'll be able to hit it since its tracking will be either as good as yours or worsem, and the other pilot wants to hit you too, don't he?)
|
Mikha'il Pelegius
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 19:28:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Mikha''il Pelegius on 24/12/2005 19:28:38
Keep it civil guys
----------------------
|
Malka Badi'a
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 19:29:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 24/12/2005 19:31:53
Quote:
rare event? Sorry, but your setup has nothing special to it, infact it sucks pretty much.
My victims would disagree, and they are many.
Sorry, but you get an F for the day due to your underestimation of setups used and lose your daily gold star for lack of combat experience in practical situations.
Quote:
but a punisher with the same compensation skills and modules won't be as far ahead of the rifter's tanking ability as it was before (reistance stacking penalty is the word).
No resistance stacking penalty needs to be worried about on the punisher. 5% resistance to all armor damage types per level. That means a moduleless punisher has the following natural, non module, non-penalised, resistances:
70% EM resistance
40% explosive resistance
43.75 Kinetic resistance
51.25% Thermal resistance
Compare that to the capacitor difference between the rifter and punisher, the natural armor difference between them as well and you have an obvious setup that can tank BCs and a setup that can tank light drones.
But, what do I know. The punisher is a horrible, horrible, pirating ship and popular opinion is much more important than first-hand experience.
--------------
|
Zarithas
|
Posted - 2005.12.24 20:12:00 -
[27]
My current Punisher setup suits me just fine:
High-
3x Medium Pulse Lasers (it's a small class turret, but it has medium in its name for some reason)
3x Multifrequency Crystals
Medium-
1x named AB
1x 7.5k strength 2 warp scrambler
Small-
1x Reactor Control Unit
1x Type-E Power Core Modification Unit
1x 200mm plate (increases armor by 390)
1x Small Armor Repairer
With this template, I can tank things pretty damn well, and since I have no Nos or cap relays, I just only use the repairer when I need it. Lots of times my target is dead before they cut through my 313 shield and 841 armor, but if I have to i'll repair.
|
Asukai
|
Posted - 2005.12.25 03:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zarithas
My current Punisher setup suits me just fine:
High-
3x Medium Pulse Lasers (it's a small class turret, but it has medium in its name for some reason)
3x Multifrequency Crystals
Medium-
1x named AB
1x 7.5k strength 2 warp scrambler
Small-
1x Reactor Control Unit
1x Type-E Power Core Modification Unit
1x 200mm plate (increases armor by 390)
1x Small Armor Repairer
What type of Type-E Power Core Modification Unit?
|
Kyozoku
|
Posted - 2005.12.25 07:32:00 -
[29]
I change my mind/. Griffon forever!
|
Longasc
|
Posted - 2005.12.25 10:05:00 -
[30]
I used both, but even being Amarr I prefer the Rifter.
It is true, it cannot tank as well, but it has SPEEEED. The Punisher is a bit sluggish unfortunately!
Once you got into range, the Punisher could have the advantage. Also think of fitting Autocannons instead of lasers, they are a bit more versatile.
The NOS really makes the difference.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |