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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.12.25 15:10:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Khatred
Really why don't you do yourself a favour and quit the game already? Whaa Whaa Whaa
That packaged was showed as a primary reason (selling was secondary) just to annoy people like you. And guess what? It succeeded. Mission accomplished. Bye bye.
Probably one of teh richest characters in the game and you show yourself off as a small minded petty person that is so insecure he has to flash his e-peen.
Theres no doubt you are doing something right to get such a collection of bpo's. Its a shame when most people think of you they think of the "shrine to yor uberness" that was your webshop
Me, I'll fly a BC now. In the right hands its better than a hac and it avoids dealings with the likes of you
That's one of the reasons I don't bother to answer with well-thought replies. This forums is crowded with whiners and full of envy.
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Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
Plim
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Posted - 2005.12.25 15:19:00 -
[62]
Smaller ram would probably solve this. People don't take them from agent missions because they are huge.
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.12.25 15:45:00 -
[63]
Topic is wrong.. The Hac prices ARE in control.. Those who buy them, keeps the prices where they are... If you dont like the price, dont buy...
Of course i think the prices are crazy.. and i dont buy any hacs atm, im flying BC's instead.
Imo the market should stay free.. And dont blame guys like Khatred.. He's not the problem here.. Anyone who had some economy lessons should know that!
Learn how the market works, before throwing stones at the producers.
/Mav
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2005.12.25 16:05:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 25/12/2005 16:06:14
Well, the Tech2 Lottery was screwed from the start, it was a bad bad move from CCP.
Instead of seeding the BPO's torugh the merrit of hard work, they made it insanely easy, and made a situation where a monopoly would arise either way.
What they should do is this, after 6 months of production time...(maybe more,could be discussed) the BPO is realeased through official channels, thus monopoly ends.
It would leave the T2 producer some time to reap the benefits of his lottery.
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zoturi
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Posted - 2005.12.25 16:08:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Khatred
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Khatred
Really why don't you do yourself a favour and quit the game already? Whaa Whaa Whaa
That packaged was showed as a primary reason (selling was secondary) just to annoy people like you. And guess what? It succeeded. Mission accomplished. Bye bye.
Probably one of teh richest characters in the game and you show yourself off as a small minded petty person that is so insecure he has to flash his e-peen.
Theres no doubt you are doing something right to get such a collection of bpo's. Its a shame when most people think of you they think of the "shrine to yor uberness" that was your webshop
Me, I'll fly a BC now. In the right hands its better than a hac and it avoids dealings with the likes of you
That's one of the reasons I don't bother to answer with well-thought replies. This forums is crowded with whiners and full of envy.
Like you
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.25 16:28:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 25/12/2005 16:29:12
If people are correct that Demand for HACs is what is keeping the price up, then price should drop since demand for HACs will be dropping with the release of other cruisers.
Yes Price of supplies may rise. But it does seem as if the price of parts is only a small portion of the price of the HAC, and in fact the larger portion is the demand.
Therefore, CCPs release of the new cruisers is just like releasing new HAC BPOs, or even better. The current HAC lovers will move up to the HAC killer, and current wannabe HAC pilots will get to fly 100s of used HACs
I think CCP has addressed this issue and we only need to wait a bit.
Of course this all hinges on DIFFERENT PEOPLE GETTING THE BPOS, and we all know for whatever reason CCP's "random" logic acts anything but random.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Remedial
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Posted - 2005.12.25 16:38:00 -
[67]
Stop flying HACs, fly something that costs 1/100th as much that's 50% as effective.
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Akarah Siminova
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Posted - 2005.12.25 16:49:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 25/12/2005 16:06:14
Well, the Tech2 Lottery was screwed from the start, it was a bad bad move from CCP.
Instead of seeding the BPO's torugh the merrit of hard work, they made it insanely easy, and made a situation where a monopoly would arise either way.
What they should do is this, after 6 months of production time...(maybe more,could be discussed) the BPO is realeased through official channels, thus monopoly ends.
It would leave the T2 producer some time to reap the benefits of his lottery.
SOOO Agreed. As for the timetable, I think 6-8 months from the intial seeding is plenty. T2 producers make billions upon billions from the right print within the first 6 months, sounds like a fair enough reward to me. As for the bpo price, 100-200x the cost of the equivilent t1 sounds good to me (Diemos bpo would then be 6-12 billion for example).
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.25 17:15:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 25/12/2005 16:29:12
If people are correct that Demand for HACs is what is keeping the price up, then price should drop since demand for HACs will be dropping with the release of other cruisers.
Yes Price of supplies may rise. But it does seem as if the price of parts is only a small portion of the price of the HAC, and in fact the larger portion is the demand.
Therefore, CCPs release of the new cruisers is just like releasing new HAC BPOs, or even better. The current HAC lovers will move up to the HAC killer, and current wannabe HAC pilots will get to fly 100s of used HACs
I think CCP has addressed this issue and we only need to wait a bit.
Of course this all hinges on DIFFERENT PEOPLE GETTING THE BPOS, and we all know for whatever reason CCP's "random" logic acts anything but random.
HAC killers? Recon ships? Thats the most funny statement in this topic so far.
Try comparing a Recon Cruiser with HAC one time, even with EW capabilities it cant reach HAC`s dmg output and pure combat abilities.
-=-
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Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2005.12.25 17:30:00 -
[70]
look, its simple supply and demand - the bastards limit the supply of HACs on the market, and there is a huge demand for them from the pirates and PvPers out there. solution, like people said, dont buy them - a cruiser is quite sufficient for pirating most things, especially if you can deck it out in T2
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.25 17:38:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 25/12/2005 17:38:57
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Try comparing a Recon Cruiser with HAC one time, even with EW capabilities it cant reach HAC`s dmg output and pure combat abilities.
QFT. But then, whose talking about Recon Cruisers?
Sleipnir.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.25 17:43:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
look, its simple supply and demand - the bastards limit the supply of HACs on the market, and there is a huge demand for them from the pirates and PvPers out there. solution, like people said, dont buy them - a cruiser is quite sufficient for pirating most things, especially if you can deck it out in T2
HAC is a valueable part of Nation defence. Excellent for invading enemy space to make them feel it where it counts. If your enemy has them and you do not, you are at a disadvantage.
isk for isk the best ships in the game are T1 frigates. But with limited number of pilots often you need more concentrated power.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.12.25 20:20:00 -
[73]
The biggest problem I feel is that producers are limited in how many they can make. they can't keep up with the demand. There's no way for them to mass produce HACs. No mechanism for them to speed up production. There's only so many prints and each HAC takes 36 hours to make. The Ram situation makes it worse. So I'm sticking to BC's for awhile.
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iNOX
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Posted - 2005.12.25 22:45:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 25/12/2005 17:38:57
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Try comparing a Recon Cruiser with HAC one time, even with EW capabilities it cant reach HAC`s dmg output and pure combat abilities.
QFT. But then, whose talking about Recon Cruisers?
Sleipnir.
If you mean TL2 Battlecruisers then you wrong.
1.Base NPC price for TL2 BC aka Command Ship is 50mil.
2.At the current prices for adv.materials it's 90-110mil so don't even think to buy it for less then 200mil cuz nobody from TL2 ship builders will sell it for low price.
3.HAC have better res,speed,less sig.radius,also HAC are cheaper then BC TL2.
4.They only have more armor and better firepower but with low speed and big sig.radius I think it will be killed by BS very fast.
P>S.That's my 5 cents.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.25 22:47:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 25/12/2005 22:49:31
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 25/12/2005 17:38:57
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Try comparing a Recon Cruiser with HAC one time, even with EW capabilities it cant reach HAC`s dmg output and pure combat abilities.
QFT. But then, whose talking about Recon Cruisers?
Sleipnir.
Simply someone mentioned above that new Recon Ships(Read as new HACs) will be HAC killers. I have no doubt that it will give some competition to current HAC, but nothing cant be beatable.
As for main discussion, well, i think that HAC prices are pretty much as they should be, making them to be affordable only to mostly expirienced pilots. But yes, id certainly want them to drop lets say from current 120mil market plank to something like 100mil area.
Even with Recon Ships, HACs wont drop more then few mil since those who will fly Recon Ships will also have skills requred for HAC.
edit: typos
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.25 22:53:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Liet Traep
The biggest problem I feel is that producers are limited in how many they can make. they can't keep up with the demand. There's no way for them to mass produce HACs. No mechanism for them to speed up production. There's only so many prints and each HAC takes 36 hours to make. The Ram situation makes it worse. So I'm sticking to BC's for awhile.
You're right.
Also the shift by CCP away from JIT manufacturing will cause production delays, some quite serious.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
iNOX
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Posted - 2005.12.25 23:03:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Liet Traep
The biggest problem I feel is that producers are limited in how many they can make. they can't keep up with the demand. There's no way for them to mass produce HACs. No mechanism for them to speed up production. There's only so many prints and each HAC takes 36 hours to make. The Ram situation makes it worse. So I'm sticking to BC's for awhile.
You're right.
Also the shift by CCP away from JIT manufacturing will cause production delays, some quite serious.
Production can by boosted with Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array for 20% but it will cost for 20% more.Also it can be done only on Star Base.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.25 23:07:00 -
[78]
Originally by: iNOX
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Liet Traep
The biggest problem I feel is that producers are limited in how many they can make. they can't keep up with the demand. There's no way for them to mass produce HACs. No mechanism for them to speed up production. There's only so many prints and each HAC takes 36 hours to make. The Ram situation makes it worse. So I'm sticking to BC's for awhile.
You're right.
Also the shift by CCP away from JIT manufacturing will cause production delays, some quite serious.
Production can by boosted with Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array for 20% but it will cost for 20% more.Also it can be done only on Star Base.
20% isnt much....instead of 10 HACs market gets 12....even if we count globally with numbers of lets say 100 HACs vs 120 HACs it still wont bring price down much. Note that alot of people arent using HAC for pvp, alot of HAC pilots are using them for complex/agent running....
-=-
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iNOX
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Posted - 2005.12.25 23:22:00 -
[79]
Without that module build time for ishtar is 30h so I can make them 24 a month that 480 ships from all 20 BPO's.With Adv.medium Ship Assembly Array that 20% boost for build time it will take 24h to make one Ishtar that 30 Month then fron 20 BPO's that will be 600 ships.
P.S.You still think that 120 ships is not enough for all types of HAC?
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Alcander
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Posted - 2005.12.25 23:28:00 -
[80]
Most don't use them for PVP is because they cost more than a Battleship and have less the output. Yes, HACs make great mission and complex runners. But for PVP? They are far too expensive to risk.
This is not to mention the massive amount of players we have. approaching 22k active players. There needs to be more BP0s to help alleviate the strain. And spread them out among people around the Eve galaxy.
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You can run, but you'll only die tired. |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.12.25 23:38:00 -
[81]
HAC prices are fine. First Skill Requirements kept them from becoming something everyone wanted, now its prices. Accept it and move on.
Yes, i specialised in HACs from the start. I have HAC 5, used the applicable Gunnery Implants, bought the Tech2, and even Faction, mods to pimp my HACs. And now i cannot afford to fly them any longer. So now i enjoy killing HAC pilots in Cruisers or Battlecruisers. I've seen people kill HACs in Frigates, something i've always wanted to try.
HACs just aren't worth their money, period. They give a minor improvement in efficiency for overinflated prices. Why? Because there's people out there who do everything for that extra 5-10% performance. Blame them for paying it? Hell no. Blame the Producers for exploiting the rich? Hell no.
Adapt or die.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.25 23:49:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/12/2005 23:50:51
Originally by: iNOX
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Liet Traep
The biggest problem I feel is that producers are limited in how many they can make. they can't keep up with the demand. There's no way for them to mass produce HACs. No mechanism for them to speed up production. There's only so many prints and each HAC takes 36 hours to make. The Ram situation makes it worse. So I'm sticking to BC's for awhile.
You're right.
Also the shift by CCP away from JIT manufacturing will cause production delays, some quite serious.
Production can by boosted with Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array for 20% but it will cost for 20% more.Also it can be done only on Star Base.
That would involve moving BPO's, which isn't going to happen.
And the JIT problem is NOT time anyway. It's that before, you could put a HAC BPO into production...and keep it there. Now, you have to have it pop out on a regular basis, to get the stuff, and you are limited by how many RAM's etc you have ON HAND.
If you're not on and in range as and when it ends, you'll lose production time. A producer can ONLY be a producer.
And Elve? HAC's have unique abilities when used right. That makes them essential for certain things. In the right group of hands, they are several times as lethal as the same number of battleships.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.26 02:44:00 -
[83]
Originally by: j0sephine
... luxury item is something that's not necessary for one's existence, and usually has prohibitive cost as well as large selection of cheaper substitutes. Last i checked food was one of the necessities, so that analogy was completely off the wall. And weren't we supposed to drop comparison to real life in the first place? o.O;
So everything bigger than a frig is luxury because it's not necessary. We all know how uber a few dozen frigs are vs even a few BSes.
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Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.26 03:07:00 -
[84]
"So everything bigger than a frig is luxury because it's not necessary. We all know how uber a few dozen frigs are vs even a few BSes."
Uhmm, no because manpower is resource as well and quite expensive to boot. If you factor than in, it'll turn out for some tasks you would need so many more pilots to fly these extra frigates, the overall cost would be higher than putting just few pilots in larger ships.
This is what eliminates frigates as possible substitute for everything... but on the other hand, is there any particular task that you absolutely *must* have the HAC for, because no other, cheaper ship could do the same thing? I can't really think of any.
And this is what makes HAC a luxury -- you can do pretty much anything a HAC can do in another ship that'll be cheaper overall, without needing extra people to hold your hand while at it, either. If people get in lines for HACs then it's not because they have to have them, but because they like them -- they're "cool", a status symbol of sorts that's also fun to fly. Just like that car you mentioned earlier is fun to drive and makes the owner look more important... but it's not like about anything it can do, cannot be done by the same driver on their own in something a million cheaper. o.O;
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.12.26 03:08:00 -
[85]
the HAC prices in eve are all speculation...
or in other words a bubble... tobad that a bubble cant burst in eve 
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The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2005.12.26 03:25:00 -
[86]
No matter what its true that RAM size is an issue. It drops on one of the mission I do frequently and I dont bother with it because its too big.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.26 03:45:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Khatred
That's one of the reasons I don't bother to answer with well-thought replies. This forums is crowded with whiners and full of envy.
Says the troll who thinks he's hot **** because he won an isk printer via a poorly made system.
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Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.12.26 03:49:00 -
[88]
Originally by: VossKarr
Edited by: VossKarr on 25/12/2005 05:16:41
Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
Market system:
If you dont like it, dont buy it. If you cant afford it, dont buy it. EVE isnt a communist system, ergo, ccp doesnt decide hac's are too expensive so they force prices down and screw over the producers.
Recap!
Dont buy things you dont wish to, if enough people agree, prices come down.
What if food/fuel/energy prices went up 10-20 times in your area, because of an artificially limited supply, and someone told you what you just told us...?
There are various regulatory governmental bodies in RL, who try to make sure that such things don't happen.
Eve is an oligarchy, where CCP are supreme, and affect HAC prices by artificially limiting the number of HAC BPOs, making their manufacture times long, and reducing the availability of certain components used in their manufacture. Therefore, CCP bears primary responsibility for the current HAC prices.
In RL, manufacturers are the ones competing for our money. In Eve, it's the other way around. i.e. we are competing for their goods. I'm sure CCP are aware of this, yet they do nothing! And you know why? Because they're freaking closet commies, that's why!
I spent the first 11 years of my life in a country called USSR, and I clearly remember the exact same situation with limited supply.
You couldn't just walk into a store and buy a good color TV set (unless you bribed someone/paid crazy money) You had to get onto a year-long waiting list to get one, while in the West companies would go out of their way to get you to spend money on their product. Makes me sad to see the same thing happen in Eve.
Only thing wrong with your statement is that it's wrong.
You say what if "food" went up. Well you cant say that. "ships" are not high priced. 1 paticular brand of ship is high priced. Why is a porche higher in price than a pickup? It has less materials in it. Shouldn't cost anymore to produce. Why is a harley davidson more expensive than a honda? Same break down in materials right? Shouldn't harley davidson be forced by the government to produce their bikes at a lower price that is equal to other producers of bikes?
Hac is a "brand" of cruiser. It is superior in attributes to it's t1 counterpart but you are not incapable of fly or fighing in eve if you don't have one. You "WANT" one you dont "NEED" one. It's a choice not a necessity. Their is a difference a big one at that.
If I created a new car that was far superior to any other car on the market and got my patent ect and started producing selling at 10 times the price of other car manufacturers and the gov came in and said "hmm mr allen deckard you cant do that you have a superior product you must lower your prices or we are going to take your blue prints and allow several other manufacturers to produce your product" well it don't work that way.
Once again the difference in your example is that you name things we need to survive in the world not things we want. Frankenberry is more expensive than shredded wheat why? Cause they can is why but you arent going to die if you eat shreded wheat.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.26 03:50:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
HACs just aren't worth their money, period. They give a minor improvement in efficiency for overinflated prices. Why? Because there's people out there who do everything for that extra 5-10% performance. Blame them for paying it? Hell no. Blame the Producers for exploiting the rich? Hell no.
A Cerb is only 10% more effective than a Caracal, and an Eagle is only 10% more effective than a Moa? Could you PLEASE give me some of your caracals and moas?
Also, send me some of your uber merlins, because mine are more like 10% the power of a harpy.
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Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.12.26 04:16:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 26/12/2005 04:16:41
They sell at the price people will buy them at.
Use your head and understand this very simple concept. All I see in this thread is waa waa i want cheap hacs so for christs sake ccp give me them!!
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
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