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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2005.12.24 15:47:00 -
[1]
jesus ccp do something about this...the hac market is not supposed to be this out of control...they take way to long to build for the number of bpo's in game...seed more bpo's so that prices level out and people can use the ship they enjoy the most in game...
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Espen
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Posted - 2005.12.24 16:06:00 -
[2]
They will probably go abit down abit when ppl wants recon cruiser insted of hacs.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.12.24 16:11:00 -
[3]
It's becoming harder for producers to find enough RAM-Starships, so they keep part of the HACs they can build for their corps, so less offer to the general public->Prices skyrocketting, despite the apparition of recon ships/T2 BC to divert some of that demand.
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zoturi
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Posted - 2005.12.24 16:13:00 -
[4]
wtb cheap ishtar
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irtehnub
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Posted - 2005.12.24 17:45:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Espen
They will probably go abit down abit when ppl wants recon cruiser insted of hacs.
the prices will never drop as long as one player is ruputed to own 2* every hac bpo + many other t2 ship bpo's, this just gives him to much opertunity to control/gouge the market
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2005.12.24 18:15:00 -
[6]
ccp should control hac production and distribution...the player system makes these greedy bastards far too rich and the poor pirates poorer for having to spend outlandish amounts of isk to aquire a worthy vessel
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.12.24 18:52:00 -
[7]
dont pvp in hacs then lol. buy a rax and fit. you can fit a rax nicely with the new PG changes.
Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel |
Stanis
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Posted - 2005.12.24 18:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Stanis on 24/12/2005 18:56:02
Well then let ppl buy BS at production cost i.e. 90mil not 130 :P
Or just don't use the ships you can't afford? :P
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2005.12.24 19:02:00 -
[9]
I agree that t2 ship prices are sick and stupid and something definitely has to be done about it.
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franny
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Posted - 2005.12.24 19:04:00 -
[10]
release T3,
let us mod our ships while building them, or mod the T1 bpo's to make the T3 ships(even if the Research time is slightly excessive, but not insane)
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.12.24 19:11:00 -
[11]
Demand keep growing for HACs (and T2 ships in general). Though, offer doesn't increase, and is even sometimes decreasing, due to people with BPOs taking a break from EVE or people with several T2 BPOs gouging prices, thanks to their nearly monopolistic position. With increasing number of pilots with the skills to fly HACs, there should be more BPOs released.
And CCP should control how many BPOs are currently effectively used (eg. counting off the BPOs that are on characters on a suspended / banned account, and those that have been not used into production or research for more than a certain time). Either that, or have the T2 market really player regulated, with BPOs being seeded for a set amount of RP, with a T2 BPO Shop (this had been suggested by many: with the RP you earn, you can "buy" BPO in your research field for a set amount of RP, no limit on T2 BPO - then the market will self balance, as it should, there's no point of having an artificial shortage. Better have T2 components be the limiting factor than BPOs, as player base can do something to get more T2 components => installing more POSs, working longer on these, etc. - and you should be able to get T2 components as reward from certain corps and divisions, and maybe through some offers too, then T2 market will be much more sane and fair - how many people have been doing research for over 2 years with no signel T2 BPO offer, with others having had 7 or more T2 BPOs through R&D agents? That lottery is not random, the system is flawed).
Originally by: DarK
The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...
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Berrik Radhok
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Posted - 2005.12.24 19:40:00 -
[12]
Recon ships havn't made the market go down-- quite the opposite. As a matter of fact the HAC cartel is charging MORE for recon ships than HACs, and using the ridiculous RAM excuse in the bargain. Saying HACs are harder to make now doesn't really invoke much sympathy when the producers are holding them back in the first place to drive prices up 
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2005.12.24 19:45:00 -
[13]
As already written in this thread, if you don't like the price, don't buy.
p - l - u - r |
Necrosmith
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Posted - 2005.12.24 19:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson
ccp should control hac production and distribution...the player system makes these greedy bastards far too rich and the poor pirates poorer for having to spend outlandish amounts of isk to aquire a worthy vessel
Uhm, no.
Free economy, all the way.
They can only sell the ships for what people are willing to pay.
Don't want to spend those kind of duckets, don't. Demand will drop and prices will follow suit.
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Mortuus
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Posted - 2005.12.24 19:54:00 -
[15]
And this is where it pays to know the right people.
Have fun with the HAC market guys =)
Occassus Republica, NBSI |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.12.24 20:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Espen
They will probably go abit down abit when ppl wants recon cruiser insted of hacs.
You realize that alot more people will be gaining HAC flying abilities than those with HAC skills who upgrade to recon cruisers, right?
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Inappropriate signature -zhuge |
Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.12.24 20:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Necrosmith
Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson
ccp should control hac production and distribution...the player system makes these greedy bastards far too rich and the poor pirates poorer for having to spend outlandish amounts of isk to aquire a worthy vessel
Uhm, no.
Free economy, all the way.
They can only sell the ships for what people are willing to pay.
Don't want to spend those kind of duckets, don't. Demand will drop and prices will follow suit.
It would be great if it was free economy all the way. But it's not. In a free economy, every one can do some research and enter a market to sell goods. In a perfect free competition market, you can enter a market with a null cost. Here in EVE, you can't even enter T2 market, except if you're very lucky in the so-called lottery, no matter how long you do research.
Free economy all the way would be: as long as it's worth the time to do research in a particular field, people keep researching, hence more people being able to produce HACs, more offer. When offer becomes high enough that, considering the demand, it's no longer worth to further research in HACs field, researchers will turn to another field. That kind of system would really be a player driven market. Currently, T2 market is only partly player driven: players have no control on production (well, a few of them can decide to reduce production, but it's absolutely impossible to increase it, and this is what makes T2 market crazy).
Originally by: DarK
The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.12.24 20:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Espen
They will probably go abit down abit when ppl wants recon cruiser insted of hacs.
You realize that alot more people will be gaining HAC flying abilities than those with HAC skills who upgrade to recon cruisers, right?
Yeah I doubt that HACs price will decrease with the arrival of the recon cruisers. All we can hope for, is that they will increase slowlier than now for a short period of time  .
Originally by: DarK
The cluetrain obviously doesn't stop at this station anymore...
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Arshes Nei
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Posted - 2005.12.24 20:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Espen
They will probably go abit down abit when ppl wants recon cruiser insted of hacs.
You realize that alot more people will be gaining HAC flying abilities than those with HAC skills who upgrade to recon cruisers, right?
Not only that, when you break it down recon cruisers and T2 Battlecruisers are made of the same stuff as HACs, and now many people will train for these shiptypes that where not interested in HACs. So in the end the total demand in T2 resources will increase, even if the demand for HACs themselves goes down.
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Frezik
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Posted - 2005.12.24 21:14:00 -
[20]
Sometimes, I wish people were forced to take an economics class before they were allowed to play.
There is no shortage of most t2 items. A shortage happens if (for example) there are 100 people willing to pay $10 for an item, but there are only 50 items available. You may then find that there are only 50 people willing to pay $15. Thus, the best possible price (according to capitalisim) is $15, which is called the equilibrium price. Right now, HACs and most other t2 items are probably right at that equilibrium point.
The main problem with HACs is that supply is limited and demand is high. Anything under that sort of situation will produce a high-margin item. There is a set number of BPOs, but the number of players willing and able to fly them is increasing.
This is not gouging. Gouging is actually a loss for the producer as much as consumer in the long term. It means that even though you're getting higher than normal margins, you sell fewer items, since there are fewer people willing to pay the higher price. This doesn't even count the effects of making your customers angry. The principle of Enlightened Self-Intrest is very important in capitalisim.
We can't make any statements based on empirical data for the effects of Recons and Command Ships yet. A hot new item will always be in high demand when it's first released. Also, there are few players who have trained the skills for one, so we have too few datapoints to judge on. We can draw some theoretical conclusions. IMHO, HACs will temporarily drop in price as many players switch to Recons and Command ships. However, they will all eventually rise again with an increase in the number of players who can fly them, unless something is done to increase the overall t2 BPO supply.
The problem with RAM is not an excuse. If more RAM isn't added soon, RAM will become the limiting factor in how many t2 items can be produced. BPOs will then sit in hangers unused (although some owners may turn out a bunch of BPCs during this time, which may result in a significant, though temporary, drop in prices after the RAM situation is resolved). If RAM prices go significantly higher, they'll have to pass that cost along to the consumer, and they won't be making any more profit out of it then they were before.
The only exception to all this that I know of is Cap Recharger IIs, for which all the bpos are under a monopoly. Normal market forces would probably drive their price between 1-5mil each, but the monopoly brings it to 15-20mil.
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"Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
SengH
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Posted - 2005.12.24 21:21:00 -
[21]
You want to know something insane? We were bored one night and calculated that producing a Cargo Expander II and being able to make 10 an hour, and selling @ 30mil each. You'd have 7.2 billion in disposable income a day. If that isnt an "I win" button in EVE I dont know what is. We even calculated back converting isk into GTCs and a alliance mate found he could pay off his mortgage in 200 days....
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Josarian Lysandor
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Posted - 2005.12.24 21:31:00 -
[22]
The current price problem is from the RAM problem.
Once that is taken care of, HACs should actually be cheaper than Pre-RMR. Simply because there will be less demand.
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2005.12.24 21:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Frezik
Sometimes, I wish people were forced to take an economics class before they were allowed to play.
I wish people were required to take an economics class before posting on forums.
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Sitherus
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Posted - 2005.12.24 22:20:00 -
[24]
Your enconomic reason whislt good do not show the full story, there is no shortage in raw good or plants to create HAC's. The deliberite shortage is in the making and or limited number of blueprints. Much like the output of oil you can slow down production to fix the market and stop production when the market price drops below you margins.
Lol Eve is starting to sound like the rich elite, to arms I say!!
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.24 22:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 24/12/2005 22:30:04
T1 is closer to a free economy since anyone can buy a BPO practically. T2 was designed to be a monopoly.
I don't think Jesus will get into this. Don't you hate how they always want you to work on your Birthday?
From what I hear there is a RAM problem now, and I believe I saw a dev say they will address it soon.
There is probably some speculating going on now. People think the addition of the new T2 ships will sap the T2 component market running up the HAC price, so folks are trying to get more HAC before that happens.
And don't I sound like one of those pundits that say confidently the price of oil went up because the Jet Stream moved an inch Northward 
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Ak'athra J'ador
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Posted - 2005.12.24 22:33:00 -
[26]
just fly bs... screw monopolists and bpo owners...
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.12.24 22:37:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 24/12/2005 22:40:13
Originally by: Stanis
Or just don't use the ships you can't afford? :P
What about ships you can afford but have a 6 month waiting list?
Hell, id pay +120 mill if it got me on top of Naga's que... 
CCP said the special factories in RMR would fix things... yeah right... 10% faster production will make a diffrence...
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2005.12.24 22:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson
ccp should control hac production and distribution...the player system makes these greedy bastards far too rich and the poor pirates poorer for having to spend outlandish amounts of isk to aquire a worthy vessel
Don't buy them in protest then.
-
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 22:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Espen
They will probably go abit down abit when ppl wants recon cruiser insted of hacs.
Recon Ships and HACs are pretty much filling each other.
Recon Ships have great EW and cov ops capabilities while not having the same amount of power and pure combat abilities.
-=-
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.12.24 23:42:00 -
[30]
well if it wasnt the era of teh WCS, i would suggest that in pvp u ransom hacs
we dont ransom anything, we kill it.
but if people ransomed hacs insted of killing them, then demand would decrease and thus its price
but that being said, i just took out an ishtar 10mins ago
and the biggest point is that a BS is > hac at everything, hacs are not worth it at all
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