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protector	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:14:00 - [1] what is the score with these people, why can`t we attack them in safe space, someone said it could be done if they were criminaly tag is this so, or where could i read about them and what we can do.
Brisi	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:31:00 - [2] Join channel "Macrointel" to find out where they are, and how to beat them. Great bunch of peeps in there.
protector	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:45:00 - [3] sorry fella can`t find macrointel
Guss1	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:53:00 - [4] I want to know what we can do about them too, the system where my corp is based has been overrun by them leaving nothing for us to mine. So lets have some suggestions on what we can do about these people. One idea is to steal all the ore they mine from their can, if they open up on you get your corp mates to warp in and blow them away. Anyone else à
Ayla Vanir	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:56:00 - [5] ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that?
Cvuos	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:00:00 - [6] Edited by: Cvuos on 26/12/2005 15:02:23 Originally by: Guss1 I want to know what we can do about them too, the system where my corp is based has been overrun by them leaving nothing for us to mine. So lets have some suggestions on what we can do about these people. One idea is to steal all the ore they mine from their can, if they open up on you get your corp mates to warp in and blow them away. Anyone else à Gang up with a friend, one of you in an indy and one in something that can shoot. Approach their can, jettison your own and move all the ore over. If there's just two barges there and the operators aren't paying attention, the macro program will keep placing ore into their can so don't pop it. Have indy haul back to station. If you don't like macro mined ore hitting the market, blow it up but make sure it's in YOUR can. In many cases (16 for me so far, 1 today) the hauler will try to grab from your can. This flags him to you and you can blow him up. Pray for the survival of phat cargo expanders. Sometimes the barges will be confused if they see a bunch of cans with one cycle of ore in, and they'll try putting it all in one can...strip miners sell for 2.5 million. protector, if you can't find the ingame chat channel "macrointel", you're not going to find any macro miners either.
Guss1	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:00:00 - [7] ThatÆs all very well but is it working? IÆm just wondering if thereÆs anything that the eve community can do itself.
protector	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:30:00 - [8] we have macro miners in outuni and surrounding area`s, and have looked on in game channels but no macrointel
CanCleaner	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:33:00 - [9] ccp don't care realy about that, cause the macros are paying customers :( Make me angry to see they are doing nothing against them, turning a fun game (eve) to a real life CASH EARNING game
voogru	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Ayla Vanir ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that? 1 Problem with that. A majority of them do not use macros. Most are sweatshop miners, 1 person or so controls every 4-5 barges an indy. And there is currently no rule that disallows using multiple accounts to farm ISK. So, an investigation needs to be done to follow the ISK. It's probably best, if you have the free time, to petition them, and blow them up if you can. -------
BuzzBuz	Posted - 2005.12.26 16:00:00 - [11] Originally by: protector we have macro miners in outuni and surrounding area`s, and have looked on in game channels but no macrointel Open the channels window Click on the Create/Join button In the next box type "macrointel" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ...One mans rubbish is another mans treasure...
Traxio Nacho	Posted - 2005.12.26 16:43:00 - [12] Originally by: CanCleaner ccp don't care realy about that, cause the macros are paying customers :( Make me angry to see they are doing nothing against them, turning a fun game (eve) to a real life CASH EARNING game I think your find CCP do care, its just right now they have better things to do esp since RMR has been out. I'm sure some of you think all CCP/GM's have to do is send someone to look at a macro miner that you petetion and thats it. These things have to be looked at and investigated otherwise innocent people will be gettting banned for having a stupid name and being AFK. Another thing alot of these "macro miners" like the bloke above said are one person in a sweatshop controling 5 accounts or whatever, this is not against EULA annoying as it is which makes it very differcult for a GM to ban them.
Kundas Badun	Posted - 2005.12.26 16:59:00 - [13] Just a little chat that I had with a farmer when I tryed to ransom him And yes, I am a ore thief, scammer and general pain in the ass [ 2005.12.26 16:33:20 ] Kundas Badun > give me 15 million ISK and Ill leave you alone [ 2005.12.26 16:33:57 ] blackmonday > 哈哈 [ 2005.12.26 16:34:30 ] Kundas Badun > speak english.. or find someone that does [ 2005.12.26 16:36:00 ] blackmonday > thief [ 2005.12.26 16:36:12 ] Kundas Badun > pay me or Ill keep stealing [ 2005.12.26 16:37:04 ] blackmonday > you can do like [ 2005.12.26 16:37:42 ] Kundas Badun > your loss [ 2005.12.26 16:40:37 ] blackmonday > you can play what you like ,and i so [ 2005.12.26 16:40:55 ] Kundas Badun > you sell isk for real money? [ 2005.12.26 16:42:18 ] blackmonday > i want to that [ 2005.12.26 16:42:31 ] Kundas Badun > that not good [ 2005.12.26 16:42:41 ] Kundas Badun > you from china? [ 2005.12.26 16:43:40 ] blackmonday > but the game time card is expensive, [ 2005.12.26 16:45:05 ] blackmonday > i want to pay it [ 2005.12.26 16:45:33 ] blackmonday > ye [ 2005.12.26 16:45:38 ] Kundas Badun > hmmm [ 2005.12.26 16:46:12 ] blackmonday > i ll back ,bye After this I feel a bit sad, the dude will prolly get his ass kicked if he dosnt pay for the time card Just a little thought.
Ayla Vanir	Posted - 2005.12.26 17:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Guss1 ThatÆs all very well but is it working? IÆm just wondering if thereÆs anything that the eve community can do itself. I think this was in reply to my post. I don't know if it's working because - from the types of forum posts from players - I don't think very many people are actually submitting petitions on it. Someone else in the thread mentioned that they (macro miners) aren't always using macros. And that they're running a sweat-shop op. That's fine, I don't agree or disagree there, but the OP and thread topic is about macro mining, not using multiple accounts to mine on a large scale. "Macro mining" is a specific term, and it implies the use of 3rd party utility programs to automate in-game tasks.
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2005.12.26 17:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Ayla Vanir Originally by: Guss1 ThatÆs all very well but is it working? IÆm just wondering if thereÆs anything that the eve community can do itself. I think this was in reply to my post. I don't know if it's working because - from the types of forum posts from players - I don't think very many people are actually submitting petitions on it. Someone else in the thread mentioned that they (macro miners) aren't always using macros. And that they're running a sweat-shop op. That's fine, I don't agree or disagree there, but the OP and thread topic is about macro mining, not using multiple accounts to mine on a large scale. "Macro mining" is a specific term, and it implies the use of 3rd party utility programs to automate in-game tasks. People need to keep in mind, that if they are sweatshop workers then they most likely are using a bot/macro. Generally, they will use the macro/bot program to operate the barges or battleships automatically while the hauler is the person behind them all. Try it out. When you steal ore from the macro miner suspects, it's the hauler that usually responds first. Convo the hauler and you will get a response fast. Convo the barges and most of the time you wont get any response or the response will take minutes. In most cases, it's always the hauler character that responds and curses me in very bad english when i steal their ore or blow up their cans.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Kundas Badun Just a little chat that I had with a farmer when I tryed to ransom him And yes, I am a ore thief, scammer and general pain in the ass [ 2005.12.26 16:33:20 ] Kundas Badun > give me 15 million ISK and Ill leave you alone [ 2005.12.26 16:33:57 ] blackmonday > 哈哈 [ 2005.12.26 16:34:30 ] Kundas Badun > speak english.. or find someone that does [ 2005.12.26 16:36:00 ] blackmonday > thief [ 2005.12.26 16:36:12 ] Kundas Badun > pay me or Ill keep stealing [ 2005.12.26 16:37:04 ] blackmonday > you can do like [ 2005.12.26 16:37:42 ] Kundas Badun > your loss [ 2005.12.26 16:40:37 ] blackmonday > you can play what you like ,and i so [ 2005.12.26 16:40:55 ] Kundas Badun > you sell isk for real money? [ 2005.12.26 16:42:18 ] blackmonday > i want to that [ 2005.12.26 16:42:31 ] Kundas Badun > that not good [ 2005.12.26 16:42:41 ] Kundas Badun > you from china? [ 2005.12.26 16:43:40 ] blackmonday > but the game time card is expensive, [ 2005.12.26 16:45:05 ] blackmonday > i want to pay it [ 2005.12.26 16:45:33 ] blackmonday > ye [ 2005.12.26 16:45:38 ] Kundas Badun > hmmm [ 2005.12.26 16:46:12 ] blackmonday > i ll back ,bye After this I feel a bit sad, the dude will prolly get his ass kicked if he dosnt pay for the time card Just a little thought. So what exactly does this prove? The only thing thats sad here is you, you alone, you lead the entire conversation, and prove nothing at the end of it. The only thing i see here is this guy wanting to earn some isk here to buy a timecode from another player. Sigh:/ ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:) Seasons greetings, merry christmas to one and to all.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Ayla Vanir ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that? All the time, currently I got on my list (because I have been alittle lazy naming them all) but roughly 40-50 names of macroers some a few days old and others over 3 months old. They are on my list with known associates, what shipstypes they use when spotted and so on. Problem is no matter how many I name, 2 months after first time they where petitioned they still are there in the game. My corp have competition on how to beat them, from stealing their ore, putting out traps and so on... biggest we have managed to take down was a Apoc. I have even tried to "trap" them with my miningbarge !!!! but so far ... unsuccessfully. Unfortnatly the area around Amarr system is packed with macro/isk farmers... and I mean packed... Even low sec have seen it's share of macrominers and we have hit them hard there. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Cvuos	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:35:00 - [18] Watch them before you try to do any sensible convo. I was just told "we only like to play a little Eve while at work" by two chars who are in the belts 23/7. I think many of the accounts are shared because on several occasions specific characters have acted surprised at my presence/actions even if blew them up the day before, poor English one day, good the next and so on. Seeing a 1 month 2 week character in a mining barge is one thing, today I saw a 21 day char in an Apoc...
Vlaknar	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:52:00 - [19] This should really be handled in true EVE fashion. Economically. The _only_ way to beat them/drive them out is to make it too costly for them to continue. This can be done by all out war. I would challenge a pvp group to make a point of hunting macros only, which would encourage other pvpers to allow the bot hunter safe access. But, let's be honest, the only real way to get rid of them is if no one bought their crap in the first place. Only you the player can prevent the botters. I've never even _seen_ a botter, but i dont mine. But it seems like a pretty obvious (if simplistic) solution.
Elim1nator	Posted - 2005.12.26 19:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Ayla Vanir ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that? The GM's do nothing about it so far.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.26 19:11:00 - [21] To be honest I seriously doubt the GM's have the tools to combat this and therefor rely on the community to deal with this themself... in the form of suicide kestrels and tricking them into container flagging. Problem is that in the long run players can go tired of this, like one in the corp he does not earn anything on combat these macro/isk farmers ... and he is getting tired to shoot at something that can't really fight back too. Also ... there might be some innocent falling for these traps, so there might be some griefing here too. Best solution for CCP would be to either start combat this soon... or make it so that players can wardec players suspected for breaking the EULA. As both macro and iskfarming is a break of the EULA. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.26 19:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Arcticblue2 Best solution for CCP would be to either start combat this soon... or make it so that players can wardec players suspected for breaking the EULA. Your joking, what with the example i quoted above, or anyone that speaks broken english that just happens to be mining gets branded by racist numbnuts such as the above... Or maybe the 21 day old character thats flying an apoc... All gulity of eula breaches.. well because YOU say they are, backing it up with random conspiracy theories about multiple users of accounts.. because 'one day' they spoke with a better use of english than the last ect.... There's one true statement in this entire thread. That being that it's hard for the gm's because they a) have to prove people are using a macro (a violation of the eula) b) are selling isk out of the game, by use of a macro or otherwise (isk farming i think?) Thats the job of the gm's, they have to trace the isk trail to stop the farmers. Simple realy, so stop all this nonsense, honestly viewing the exmaples above it's simpley laughable. They ever put the players in control of eula violations, im outa here, and eve will become a laughing stock tbh:/ ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:) Seasons greetings, merry christmas to one and to all.
Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:00:00 - [23] Edited by: Zavernus Hamarabi on 26/12/2005 20:05:07 Why dont those who attack said 'macro miners' just attack them under the flag of greifing? Get rid of the chinese sweatshop concept or whatever, instead blow them up for their strip miners, expanders and stuff. Put simply, attack them to be an ass, not to somehow rescue eve from some far east menace.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Vlaknar I would challenge a pvp group to make a point of hunting macros only, which would encourage other pvpers to allow the bot hunter safe access Yeah, we need a group that does nothing but hunt macroers and isk farmers. That group needs a name though, how about Reservior Dogs? ------------------------------------ Inappropriate signature -zhuge
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Galk Originally by: Arcticblue2 Best solution for CCP would be to either start combat this soon... or make it so that players can wardec players suspected for breaking the EULA. Your joking, what with the example i quoted above, or anyone that speaks broken english that just happens to be mining gets branded by racist numbnuts such as the above... Or maybe the 21 day old character thats flying an apoc... All gulity of eula breaches.. well because YOU say they are, backing it up with random conspiracy theories about multiple users of accounts.. because 'one day' they spoke with a better use of english than the last ect.... There's one true statement in this entire thread. That being that it's hard for the gm's because they a) have to prove people are using a macro (a violation of the eula) b) are selling isk out of the game, by use of a macro or otherwise (isk farming i think?) Thats the job of the gm's, they have to trace the isk trail to stop the farmers. Simple realy, so stop all this nonsense, honestly viewing the exmaples above it's simpley laughable. They ever put the players in control of eula violations, im outa here, and eve will become a laughing stock tbh:/ Can i have your stuff if you quit? But seriously, some people spend time checking to see whether the people they are stealing ore from are in fact macro miners or not(lets not forget that ore thievery is a legitimate role in this game). There are many ways of checking. It is true that you will never be 100% certain, but most of the time it is spot on. One way is to just check the amount of time the person is online mining away at a belt(have some corp mates who are online at a different time zone help). Surely a single person cannot mine 23/7 no matter how many accounts he has. In the system I'm in, i have groups of people who have 2-3 characters mining for them but unlike those sweatshops, they are logged off half of the day(so they aren't macro's just normal people with many accounts). If you find a group that are there mining non-stop everyday then they are suspects for either macros/bots or a sweatshop mining op that operators take shifts. Add the fact that i have seen how these sweatshops operate since there is quite a few in my country, and people here view such operations/actions as just another way to make a living, so they don't give a damn about the EULA and foreign laws/agreements since they cannot be prosecuted for breaking them. Spending 3 years playing International Ragnarok Online a notoriously Bot filled game, players from those games can detect bots a bit better than others. The same frustrations that you get from players complaining that they cannot get enough monsters to kill for themselves is the same thing with the miners who cannot get asteroids to mine.
Caius LiviusCerso	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:48:00 - [26] chineese cluster won't have many 'hard earning' macrominers on subscriptions 'cause no one will buy their ISKs in real life, and we all know most of these are them....
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:49:00 - [27] another macro thread. ick
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:58:00 - [28] u know reading of this and seen vids on macro the flaging system as yet helping us to kill them. i think i try some killing my self
Cvuos	Posted - 2005.12.26 21:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Galk Your joking, what with the example i quoted above, or anyone that speaks broken english that just happens to be mining gets branded by racist numbnuts such as the above... Or maybe the 21 day old character thats flying an apoc... All gulity of eula breaches.. well because YOU say they are, backing it up with random conspiracy theories about multiple users of accounts.. because 'one day' they spoke with a better use of english than the last ect.... There's one true statement in this entire thread. That being that it's hard for the gm's because they a) have to prove people are using a macro (a violation of the eula) b) are selling isk out of the game, by use of a macro or otherwise (isk farming i think?) Thats the job of the gm's, they have to trace the isk trail to stop the farmers. Simple realy, so stop all this nonsense, honestly viewing the exmaples above it's simpley laughable. They ever put the players in control of eula violations, im outa here, and eve will become a laughing stock tbh:/ I have to agree with this, the GMs are probably busy enough as it is right now and they need quite a bit or proof before banning an account. But regarding the "conspiracy theories", I guess you had to be there. There's no mystery about the farmers, and some even admit it. There's tools availble to grief them without breaking any rules and so far I've scored pretty well in loot (CCP, make strip miners more durable please!) and I'll continue to do so. CCP has realised that this is part of the Asian gaming culture and the solution isn't hundreds of petitions based on bumping barges or chatlogs, but restricting them to the Asian server. It'll be much easier to maintain as well, as there is no need for NPCs, agents, complexes, trade goods or 90% of the ships. 50 asteroid belts in each system will do.
Ion Shape	Posted - 2005.12.26 21:56:00 - [30] I see only one solution to this problem û One-person one account only!! I have playing eve for one year now and always only had this account. I always like to play the REAL way. . . the HARD way û but thatÆs just me Stop this width multi accounts if itÆs possible to control. But again û donÆt think ccp will do this because of the good earnings from this!!

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