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protector	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:14:00 - [1] what is the score with these people, why can`t we attack them in safe space, someone said it could be done if they were criminaly tag is this so, or where could i read about them and what we can do.
Brisi	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:31:00 - [2] Join channel "Macrointel" to find out where they are, and how to beat them. Great bunch of peeps in there.
protector	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:45:00 - [3] sorry fella can`t find macrointel
Guss1	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:53:00 - [4] I want to know what we can do about them too, the system where my corp is based has been overrun by them leaving nothing for us to mine. So lets have some suggestions on what we can do about these people. One idea is to steal all the ore they mine from their can, if they open up on you get your corp mates to warp in and blow them away. Anyone else à
Ayla Vanir	Posted - 2005.12.26 14:56:00 - [5] ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that?
Cvuos	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:00:00 - [6] Edited by: Cvuos on 26/12/2005 15:02:23 Originally by: Guss1 I want to know what we can do about them too, the system where my corp is based has been overrun by them leaving nothing for us to mine. So lets have some suggestions on what we can do about these people. One idea is to steal all the ore they mine from their can, if they open up on you get your corp mates to warp in and blow them away. Anyone else à Gang up with a friend, one of you in an indy and one in something that can shoot. Approach their can, jettison your own and move all the ore over. If there's just two barges there and the operators aren't paying attention, the macro program will keep placing ore into their can so don't pop it. Have indy haul back to station. If you don't like macro mined ore hitting the market, blow it up but make sure it's in YOUR can. In many cases (16 for me so far, 1 today) the hauler will try to grab from your can. This flags him to you and you can blow him up. Pray for the survival of phat cargo expanders. Sometimes the barges will be confused if they see a bunch of cans with one cycle of ore in, and they'll try putting it all in one can...strip miners sell for 2.5 million. protector, if you can't find the ingame chat channel "macrointel", you're not going to find any macro miners either.
Guss1	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:00:00 - [7] ThatÆs all very well but is it working? IÆm just wondering if thereÆs anything that the eve community can do itself.
protector	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:30:00 - [8] we have macro miners in outuni and surrounding area`s, and have looked on in game channels but no macrointel
CanCleaner	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:33:00 - [9] ccp don't care realy about that, cause the macros are paying customers :( Make me angry to see they are doing nothing against them, turning a fun game (eve) to a real life CASH EARNING game
voogru	Posted - 2005.12.26 15:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Ayla Vanir ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that? 1 Problem with that. A majority of them do not use macros. Most are sweatshop miners, 1 person or so controls every 4-5 barges an indy. And there is currently no rule that disallows using multiple accounts to farm ISK. So, an investigation needs to be done to follow the ISK. It's probably best, if you have the free time, to petition them, and blow them up if you can. -------
BuzzBuz	Posted - 2005.12.26 16:00:00 - [11] Originally by: protector we have macro miners in outuni and surrounding area`s, and have looked on in game channels but no macrointel Open the channels window Click on the Create/Join button In the next box type "macrointel" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ...One mans rubbish is another mans treasure...
Traxio Nacho	Posted - 2005.12.26 16:43:00 - [12] Originally by: CanCleaner ccp don't care realy about that, cause the macros are paying customers :( Make me angry to see they are doing nothing against them, turning a fun game (eve) to a real life CASH EARNING game I think your find CCP do care, its just right now they have better things to do esp since RMR has been out. I'm sure some of you think all CCP/GM's have to do is send someone to look at a macro miner that you petetion and thats it. These things have to be looked at and investigated otherwise innocent people will be gettting banned for having a stupid name and being AFK. Another thing alot of these "macro miners" like the bloke above said are one person in a sweatshop controling 5 accounts or whatever, this is not against EULA annoying as it is which makes it very differcult for a GM to ban them.
Kundas Badun	Posted - 2005.12.26 16:59:00 - [13] Just a little chat that I had with a farmer when I tryed to ransom him And yes, I am a ore thief, scammer and general pain in the ass [ 2005.12.26 16:33:20 ] Kundas Badun > give me 15 million ISK and Ill leave you alone [ 2005.12.26 16:33:57 ] blackmonday > 哈哈 [ 2005.12.26 16:34:30 ] Kundas Badun > speak english.. or find someone that does [ 2005.12.26 16:36:00 ] blackmonday > thief [ 2005.12.26 16:36:12 ] Kundas Badun > pay me or Ill keep stealing [ 2005.12.26 16:37:04 ] blackmonday > you can do like [ 2005.12.26 16:37:42 ] Kundas Badun > your loss [ 2005.12.26 16:40:37 ] blackmonday > you can play what you like ,and i so [ 2005.12.26 16:40:55 ] Kundas Badun > you sell isk for real money? [ 2005.12.26 16:42:18 ] blackmonday > i want to that [ 2005.12.26 16:42:31 ] Kundas Badun > that not good [ 2005.12.26 16:42:41 ] Kundas Badun > you from china? [ 2005.12.26 16:43:40 ] blackmonday > but the game time card is expensive, [ 2005.12.26 16:45:05 ] blackmonday > i want to pay it [ 2005.12.26 16:45:33 ] blackmonday > ye [ 2005.12.26 16:45:38 ] Kundas Badun > hmmm [ 2005.12.26 16:46:12 ] blackmonday > i ll back ,bye After this I feel a bit sad, the dude will prolly get his ass kicked if he dosnt pay for the time card Just a little thought.
Ayla Vanir	Posted - 2005.12.26 17:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Guss1 ThatÆs all very well but is it working? IÆm just wondering if thereÆs anything that the eve community can do itself. I think this was in reply to my post. I don't know if it's working because - from the types of forum posts from players - I don't think very many people are actually submitting petitions on it. Someone else in the thread mentioned that they (macro miners) aren't always using macros. And that they're running a sweat-shop op. That's fine, I don't agree or disagree there, but the OP and thread topic is about macro mining, not using multiple accounts to mine on a large scale. "Macro mining" is a specific term, and it implies the use of 3rd party utility programs to automate in-game tasks.
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2005.12.26 17:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Ayla Vanir Originally by: Guss1 ThatÆs all very well but is it working? IÆm just wondering if thereÆs anything that the eve community can do itself. I think this was in reply to my post. I don't know if it's working because - from the types of forum posts from players - I don't think very many people are actually submitting petitions on it. Someone else in the thread mentioned that they (macro miners) aren't always using macros. And that they're running a sweat-shop op. That's fine, I don't agree or disagree there, but the OP and thread topic is about macro mining, not using multiple accounts to mine on a large scale. "Macro mining" is a specific term, and it implies the use of 3rd party utility programs to automate in-game tasks. People need to keep in mind, that if they are sweatshop workers then they most likely are using a bot/macro. Generally, they will use the macro/bot program to operate the barges or battleships automatically while the hauler is the person behind them all. Try it out. When you steal ore from the macro miner suspects, it's the hauler that usually responds first. Convo the hauler and you will get a response fast. Convo the barges and most of the time you wont get any response or the response will take minutes. In most cases, it's always the hauler character that responds and curses me in very bad english when i steal their ore or blow up their cans.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Kundas Badun Just a little chat that I had with a farmer when I tryed to ransom him And yes, I am a ore thief, scammer and general pain in the ass [ 2005.12.26 16:33:20 ] Kundas Badun > give me 15 million ISK and Ill leave you alone [ 2005.12.26 16:33:57 ] blackmonday > 哈哈 [ 2005.12.26 16:34:30 ] Kundas Badun > speak english.. or find someone that does [ 2005.12.26 16:36:00 ] blackmonday > thief [ 2005.12.26 16:36:12 ] Kundas Badun > pay me or Ill keep stealing [ 2005.12.26 16:37:04 ] blackmonday > you can do like [ 2005.12.26 16:37:42 ] Kundas Badun > your loss [ 2005.12.26 16:40:37 ] blackmonday > you can play what you like ,and i so [ 2005.12.26 16:40:55 ] Kundas Badun > you sell isk for real money? [ 2005.12.26 16:42:18 ] blackmonday > i want to that [ 2005.12.26 16:42:31 ] Kundas Badun > that not good [ 2005.12.26 16:42:41 ] Kundas Badun > you from china? [ 2005.12.26 16:43:40 ] blackmonday > but the game time card is expensive, [ 2005.12.26 16:45:05 ] blackmonday > i want to pay it [ 2005.12.26 16:45:33 ] blackmonday > ye [ 2005.12.26 16:45:38 ] Kundas Badun > hmmm [ 2005.12.26 16:46:12 ] blackmonday > i ll back ,bye After this I feel a bit sad, the dude will prolly get his ass kicked if he dosnt pay for the time card Just a little thought. So what exactly does this prove? The only thing thats sad here is you, you alone, you lead the entire conversation, and prove nothing at the end of it. The only thing i see here is this guy wanting to earn some isk here to buy a timecode from another player. Sigh:/ ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:) Seasons greetings, merry christmas to one and to all.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Ayla Vanir ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that? All the time, currently I got on my list (because I have been alittle lazy naming them all) but roughly 40-50 names of macroers some a few days old and others over 3 months old. They are on my list with known associates, what shipstypes they use when spotted and so on. Problem is no matter how many I name, 2 months after first time they where petitioned they still are there in the game. My corp have competition on how to beat them, from stealing their ore, putting out traps and so on... biggest we have managed to take down was a Apoc. I have even tried to "trap" them with my miningbarge !!!! but so far ... unsuccessfully. Unfortnatly the area around Amarr system is packed with macro/isk farmers... and I mean packed... Even low sec have seen it's share of macrominers and we have hit them hard there. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Cvuos	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:35:00 - [18] Watch them before you try to do any sensible convo. I was just told "we only like to play a little Eve while at work" by two chars who are in the belts 23/7. I think many of the accounts are shared because on several occasions specific characters have acted surprised at my presence/actions even if blew them up the day before, poor English one day, good the next and so on. Seeing a 1 month 2 week character in a mining barge is one thing, today I saw a 21 day char in an Apoc...
Vlaknar	Posted - 2005.12.26 18:52:00 - [19] This should really be handled in true EVE fashion. Economically. The _only_ way to beat them/drive them out is to make it too costly for them to continue. This can be done by all out war. I would challenge a pvp group to make a point of hunting macros only, which would encourage other pvpers to allow the bot hunter safe access. But, let's be honest, the only real way to get rid of them is if no one bought their crap in the first place. Only you the player can prevent the botters. I've never even _seen_ a botter, but i dont mine. But it seems like a pretty obvious (if simplistic) solution.
Elim1nator	Posted - 2005.12.26 19:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Ayla Vanir ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that? The GM's do nothing about it so far.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.26 19:11:00 - [21] To be honest I seriously doubt the GM's have the tools to combat this and therefor rely on the community to deal with this themself... in the form of suicide kestrels and tricking them into container flagging. Problem is that in the long run players can go tired of this, like one in the corp he does not earn anything on combat these macro/isk farmers ... and he is getting tired to shoot at something that can't really fight back too. Also ... there might be some innocent falling for these traps, so there might be some griefing here too. Best solution for CCP would be to either start combat this soon... or make it so that players can wardec players suspected for breaking the EULA. As both macro and iskfarming is a break of the EULA. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.26 19:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Arcticblue2 Best solution for CCP would be to either start combat this soon... or make it so that players can wardec players suspected for breaking the EULA. Your joking, what with the example i quoted above, or anyone that speaks broken english that just happens to be mining gets branded by racist numbnuts such as the above... Or maybe the 21 day old character thats flying an apoc... All gulity of eula breaches.. well because YOU say they are, backing it up with random conspiracy theories about multiple users of accounts.. because 'one day' they spoke with a better use of english than the last ect.... There's one true statement in this entire thread. That being that it's hard for the gm's because they a) have to prove people are using a macro (a violation of the eula) b) are selling isk out of the game, by use of a macro or otherwise (isk farming i think?) Thats the job of the gm's, they have to trace the isk trail to stop the farmers. Simple realy, so stop all this nonsense, honestly viewing the exmaples above it's simpley laughable. They ever put the players in control of eula violations, im outa here, and eve will become a laughing stock tbh:/ ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:) Seasons greetings, merry christmas to one and to all.
Zavernus Hamarabi	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:00:00 - [23] Edited by: Zavernus Hamarabi on 26/12/2005 20:05:07 Why dont those who attack said 'macro miners' just attack them under the flag of greifing? Get rid of the chinese sweatshop concept or whatever, instead blow them up for their strip miners, expanders and stuff. Put simply, attack them to be an ass, not to somehow rescue eve from some far east menace.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Vlaknar I would challenge a pvp group to make a point of hunting macros only, which would encourage other pvpers to allow the bot hunter safe access Yeah, we need a group that does nothing but hunt macroers and isk farmers. That group needs a name though, how about Reservior Dogs? ------------------------------------ Inappropriate signature -zhuge
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Galk Originally by: Arcticblue2 Best solution for CCP would be to either start combat this soon... or make it so that players can wardec players suspected for breaking the EULA. Your joking, what with the example i quoted above, or anyone that speaks broken english that just happens to be mining gets branded by racist numbnuts such as the above... Or maybe the 21 day old character thats flying an apoc... All gulity of eula breaches.. well because YOU say they are, backing it up with random conspiracy theories about multiple users of accounts.. because 'one day' they spoke with a better use of english than the last ect.... There's one true statement in this entire thread. That being that it's hard for the gm's because they a) have to prove people are using a macro (a violation of the eula) b) are selling isk out of the game, by use of a macro or otherwise (isk farming i think?) Thats the job of the gm's, they have to trace the isk trail to stop the farmers. Simple realy, so stop all this nonsense, honestly viewing the exmaples above it's simpley laughable. They ever put the players in control of eula violations, im outa here, and eve will become a laughing stock tbh:/ Can i have your stuff if you quit? But seriously, some people spend time checking to see whether the people they are stealing ore from are in fact macro miners or not(lets not forget that ore thievery is a legitimate role in this game). There are many ways of checking. It is true that you will never be 100% certain, but most of the time it is spot on. One way is to just check the amount of time the person is online mining away at a belt(have some corp mates who are online at a different time zone help). Surely a single person cannot mine 23/7 no matter how many accounts he has. In the system I'm in, i have groups of people who have 2-3 characters mining for them but unlike those sweatshops, they are logged off half of the day(so they aren't macro's just normal people with many accounts). If you find a group that are there mining non-stop everyday then they are suspects for either macros/bots or a sweatshop mining op that operators take shifts. Add the fact that i have seen how these sweatshops operate since there is quite a few in my country, and people here view such operations/actions as just another way to make a living, so they don't give a damn about the EULA and foreign laws/agreements since they cannot be prosecuted for breaking them. Spending 3 years playing International Ragnarok Online a notoriously Bot filled game, players from those games can detect bots a bit better than others. The same frustrations that you get from players complaining that they cannot get enough monsters to kill for themselves is the same thing with the miners who cannot get asteroids to mine.
Caius LiviusCerso	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:48:00 - [26] chineese cluster won't have many 'hard earning' macrominers on subscriptions 'cause no one will buy their ISKs in real life, and we all know most of these are them....
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:49:00 - [27] another macro thread. ick
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2005.12.26 20:58:00 - [28] u know reading of this and seen vids on macro the flaging system as yet helping us to kill them. i think i try some killing my self
Cvuos	Posted - 2005.12.26 21:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Galk Your joking, what with the example i quoted above, or anyone that speaks broken english that just happens to be mining gets branded by racist numbnuts such as the above... Or maybe the 21 day old character thats flying an apoc... All gulity of eula breaches.. well because YOU say they are, backing it up with random conspiracy theories about multiple users of accounts.. because 'one day' they spoke with a better use of english than the last ect.... There's one true statement in this entire thread. That being that it's hard for the gm's because they a) have to prove people are using a macro (a violation of the eula) b) are selling isk out of the game, by use of a macro or otherwise (isk farming i think?) Thats the job of the gm's, they have to trace the isk trail to stop the farmers. Simple realy, so stop all this nonsense, honestly viewing the exmaples above it's simpley laughable. They ever put the players in control of eula violations, im outa here, and eve will become a laughing stock tbh:/ I have to agree with this, the GMs are probably busy enough as it is right now and they need quite a bit or proof before banning an account. But regarding the "conspiracy theories", I guess you had to be there. There's no mystery about the farmers, and some even admit it. There's tools availble to grief them without breaking any rules and so far I've scored pretty well in loot (CCP, make strip miners more durable please!) and I'll continue to do so. CCP has realised that this is part of the Asian gaming culture and the solution isn't hundreds of petitions based on bumping barges or chatlogs, but restricting them to the Asian server. It'll be much easier to maintain as well, as there is no need for NPCs, agents, complexes, trade goods or 90% of the ships. 50 asteroid belts in each system will do.
Ion Shape	Posted - 2005.12.26 21:56:00 - [30] I see only one solution to this problem û One-person one account only!! I have playing eve for one year now and always only had this account. I always like to play the REAL way. . . the HARD way û but thatÆs just me Stop this width multi accounts if itÆs possible to control. But again û donÆt think ccp will do this because of the good earnings from this!!
Rai Ardose	Posted - 2005.12.27 00:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Ion Shape I see only one solution to this problem û One-person one account only!! I have playing eve for one year now and always only had this account. I always like to play the REAL way. . . the HARD way û but thatÆs just me Stop this width multi accounts if itÆs possible to control. But again û donÆt think ccp will do this because of the good earnings from this!! yeah? well i pay my 2 accounts with money, so thats 30 euro's each month. What they really should do is ban timecards.
ramipril	Posted - 2005.12.27 01:51:00 - [32] I would have thought there is one way to stop the macros. They must be using a 3rd party ap to run the macros? If these apps can be identified CCP should be able to change the eve client so it does not run when they are running. Same type of thing is done to cut down on CD emulators so why cannot that concept be used?
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.27 01:53:00 - [33] Originally by: Ion Shape I see only one solution to this problem û One-person one account only!! I have playing eve for one year now and always only had this account. I always like to play the REAL way. . . the HARD way û but thatÆs just me Stop this width multi accounts if itÆs possible to control. But again û donÆt think ccp will do this because of the good earnings from this!! Legit person, says he thats been sharing the same home for the last few days. 'I' for one would go about supporting that IF it was the same for everybody. Face of eve would completely change imo. Whole new game, maybe the dirrection the devs intended. Think about it, commander Jamerson/ ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:) Seasons greetings, merry christmas to one and to all.
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2005.12.27 03:19:00 - [34] Originally by: Galk Originally by: Kundas Badun Just a little chat that I had with a farmer when I tryed to ransom him And yes, I am a ore thief, scammer and general pain in the ass [ 2005.12.26 16:33:20 ] Kundas Badun > give me 15 million ISK and Ill leave you alone [ 2005.12.26 16:33:57 ] blackmonday > 哈哈 [ 2005.12.26 16:34:30 ] Kundas Badun > speak english.. or find someone that does [ 2005.12.26 16:36:00 ] blackmonday > thief [ 2005.12.26 16:36:12 ] Kundas Badun > pay me or Ill keep stealing [ 2005.12.26 16:37:04 ] blackmonday > you can do like [ 2005.12.26 16:37:42 ] Kundas Badun > your loss [ 2005.12.26 16:40:37 ] blackmonday > you can play what you like ,and i so [ 2005.12.26 16:40:55 ] Kundas Badun > you sell isk for real money? [ 2005.12.26 16:42:18 ] blackmonday > i want to that [ 2005.12.26 16:42:31 ] Kundas Badun > that not good [ 2005.12.26 16:42:41 ] Kundas Badun > you from china? [ 2005.12.26 16:43:40 ] blackmonday > but the game time card is expensive, [ 2005.12.26 16:45:05 ] blackmonday > i want to pay it [ 2005.12.26 16:45:33 ] blackmonday > ye [ 2005.12.26 16:45:38 ] Kundas Badun > hmmm [ 2005.12.26 16:46:12 ] blackmonday > i ll back ,bye After this I feel a bit sad, the dude will prolly get his ass kicked if he dosnt pay for the time card Just a little thought. So what exactly does this prove? The only thing thats sad here is you, you alone, you lead the entire conversation, and prove nothing at the end of it. The only thing i see here is this guy wanting to earn some isk here to buy a timecode from another player. Sigh:/ ummm hello? he mining for isk for game card!! he must be selling it. So u see no problem with that? Hell keep at it i think Ore theif doing a good job with macro and other people. They not smart enough to protect ore then whats the problem!
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2005.12.27 03:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Ion Shape I see only one solution to this problem û One-person one account only!! I have playing eve for one year now and always only had this account. I always like to play the REAL way. . . the HARD way û but thatÆs just me Stop this width multi accounts if itÆs possible to control. But again û donÆt think ccp will do this because of the good earnings from this!! there no way to stop multi accounts. I could put 2-3 address and have many ways to pay and GM will unable to stop this
Thorion Mortisfilius	Posted - 2005.12.27 08:28:00 - [36] Edited by: Thorion Mortisfilius on 27/12/2005 08:29:50 Edited by: Thorion Mortisfilius on 27/12/2005 08:28:51 Originally by: Ion Shape I see only one solution to this problem û One-person one account only!! I have playing eve for one year now and always only had this account. I always like to play the REAL way. . . the HARD way û but thatÆs just me Stop this width multi accounts if itÆs possible to control. But again û donÆt think ccp will do this because of the good earnings from this!! Another reason this won't work is there are multiple accounts used for the purpose of playing the game with a spouse or other member of the family. Something you can't do with a single account.
Amaii Templ	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:11:00 - [37] The real way to stop these bastards is to sue the retailers - the guys who buy the ISK from the macrominers, and launder it, then sell it back to people. Things like IGE, and such. They're the ones you really need to go after. They're making money on CCP's registered trademarked things, and that is not kosher. The problem is proving it.
Andouus La	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Ayla Vanir ISD folks have stated quite a number of times now that the 'best' way to deal with this situation is to file a petition (under 'Exploits') with relevant info about the suspected macro users. Has anyone done that? I was stucked with heavy macro mining in my home system and did a petition with name, took screenies, heck event FRAPS if that would help. The petition was closed and those guys are still at large. Changed systems... must be unlucky. Same kind of 1 month and half char solo mining one belt each in level 2 barges, all in npc corp. They dont speak in local, they dont take convoes etc. There active on local for hours. All the same bunch of characters (5 or 6 from what I seened) always loged at the same time. Something to random to just be extraordinary events. This has appened to me twice, first in Kiereend system and 30 jumps away in Tasabeshi. Same deitis characters, one bunch was all female char, another bunch had names with numbers (like king001, billy002 etc.). Anyway to sum it up I did a petition and nothing came out.
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.27 09:34:00 - [39] THE MESSAGE FROM CCP IS: IT'S OK TO MACRO MINE...DON'T WORRY IF YOU GET REPORTED, WE DON'T ACTUALLY INVESTIGATE THE OBVIOUS
Andouus La	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:08:00 - [40] Edited by: Andouus La on 27/12/2005 11:09:01 Just remembered I did more in fact. I've been mining in eve for a while now and I got to how to run in the mining business. One way is doing a corp mining op. Then you have a couple of peeps marshmellow eating around a jet can and happylly popping roids or if there smart they are not popping valuable roids and farming the belts like it should be done. (This is why macro mining is so destructive. It really kills the belts.) Then an industrial ships come along and pick up the can loots from rats (maybe not) and getting back to the station. Another possibility is that lone player determined to mine himself his first battleship. He's having a can and he's checking for ore thiefs cuz he's hauling alone. Then newbs anchorings cans all over the place. All these are real players. Convo them and most will reply, maybe not immediatly cuz sometime like me I am browsing the net of checking the eve-o fora rofl. Macro miners I looked up dont use jet cans. In fact they dont use cans at all. The one I saw and took FRAPS shots of dont even use an industrial ship. They where constantly warping when something was moving on the overview. An incomming rat or my mining lasers. At first I was puzzled that everytime they would warp in the belt they would warp out immediatly. Everytime there was a rat they would warp out. Then full cargo every one at their own rate of mining would warp to the station. Normally this would be a really unproductive way to mine and personnally an exausting one. Maybe not for for a macro miner thaugh. Even unproductive there getting ore in the station. Another group was using an industrial ship. They all had fuzzy name like King001, Jeff 002 etc. I dont recall seing a can between the industrial and the mining barge. These guys where really idle in belts. One barge per belt. Heck maybe there was a can but truly I dont recall seing one. Tryed to convo them, was immediatly denied and ignored. Must of had a really bad social life back in Kiereend nobody was answering my convo rofl...
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:18:00 - [41] Unproductive if played for a few hours, but if played 23/7 they make a lot of money not jet can mining.
Ion Shape	Posted - 2005.12.27 11:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Peter Armstrong there no way to stop multi accounts. I could put 2-3 address and have many ways to pay and GM will unable to stop this Originally by: Thorion Mortisfilius Another reason this won't work is there are multiple accounts used for the purpose of playing the game with a spouse or other member of the family. Something you can't do with a single account. Ya, you guys maybe right. It's maybe now the time ccp have to do some really hard work about this (eve killing) problem. But it will be a hard task to do. Who is and who is not macro - I'm a miner and love to "kill" the roids I mining for days on in the same system and therefore maybe could be mistaken as a part of a macro because I kill full set of belts. CCP has to be careful - But still this problem has to be taken serious imo!!
Andouus La	Posted - 2005.12.27 20:54:00 - [43] Check this up. Link to an older thread on macro mining on eve-o fora
HCI SteelRat	Posted - 2005.12.27 21:25:00 - [44] i have read through most of this post and i see a real simple solution : Make a t2 skill for automated mining and add it as a feature to the game, make it a real advanced skill that needs a player of advanced skill to get and soon the problem will clear up. I don't see making automated mining part of the game as something that will kill the game. but make it a skill that takes time to get, so not everyone will do it. Steel
protector	Posted - 2005.12.28 17:48:00 - [45] thanks to you all for input, the reason i want to know how to deal with them is that they strip the belts which means anybody who want`s to manufacter has to hunt around to find a belt with enough ore in, plus i wanna kill em and safe space makes it awkward :¼((
Simon Jax	Posted - 2005.12.28 18:28:00 - [46] If they're not using JetCans, I can see that as a problem. If they are, why not just Ore-Thief them? Let 'em do the work for you, steal the ore, and if they try and take it back rip apart the barge?
Quanteeri	Posted - 2005.12.28 18:29:00 - [47] Edited by: Quanteeri on 28/12/2005 18:31:17 Originally by: HCI SteelRat i have read through most of this post and i see a real simple solution : Make a t2 skill for automated mining and add it as a feature to the game, make it a real advanced skill that needs a player of advanced skill to get and soon the problem will clear up. I don't see making automated mining part of the game as something that will kill the game. but make it a skill that takes time to get, so not everyone will do it. Honestly, I have to say I like this idea. Yeah, the trit market would hit rock bottom, but really, who care's. Not long after, most empire belts would be completely ravaged, sending the adventurous to <=.4, which would mean more need for miner coverage, more need for a concerted cooperative effort between the movers and the shakers to stay afloat, which means a true need for territorial warfare. Which we all know is what Eve is all about. That, or it would just kill the game. Hard to say. CCP has even knows it. They've added the word BIGSHOT to the URL of my avatar.
Andouus La	Posted - 2005.12.29 10:08:00 - [48] I've realised that macro mining and some "other mining" is not the same.
Taala	Posted - 2005.12.29 12:08:00 - [49] I've been reading through these threads as macroing has become a problem down in Devoid. I don't have a problem with people sitting around doing a lot of mining (and the term "Macro" could be applied to this meaning large scale). Eventually it becomes mind numbing but if that's what they want/have to do then so be it. It's people actually using Macro programs that really need to be dealt with. Yes they can be tricked into being Concorded but I don't really want to spend my every hour on EVE playing games with these people in Empire space. Essentially I'm being forced into low sec space to mine. Not a bad thing I suppose considering how crowded Empire is nowadays. I started out in the game as a miner as it was an easy way to earn ISK early on. Increasingly this is a route now closed to new players because of these macroers. You just start to wonder whether barges were such a good idea.
kemarind	Posted - 2005.12.29 15:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Simon Jax If they're not using JetCans, I can see that as a problem. If they are, why not just Ore-Thief them? Let 'em do the work for you, steal the ore, and if they try and take it back rip apart the barge? That approach has worked up to now but, unfortunately, some of them have found a simple way to make jetcans none stealable from!!! :( No doubt the method will soon spread.
Adelas	Posted - 2005.12.29 23:49:00 - [51] Do you take a hit to your sec status when you steal from a can? Came across half a dozen of em today in a local system - they were stripping all the kernite out of the belts. Was watching them for a while and will continue to see what they are up to before doing anything. I did have a great time ramming one of em away from his can though - hit him a few times in a rax with mwd going - pushed him about 20 Km from his can :)
BuzzBuz	Posted - 2005.12.30 07:08:00 - [52] No sec status hit for stealing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ...One mans rubbish is another mans treasure...
Winston VanSantz	Posted - 2005.12.30 08:30:00 - [53] Not sure what you are aware of but game sweatshops are often REAL sweatshops, usually employing chidlren in places like China, Korea to sit there all day and stare the screen. It would be very hard for CCP to combat it on their own, since they are all separate accounts on separate computers. The only thing they might be able to do is sue comapnies that sell ISK and items for real money. I know SOE and Blizzard for all their shrotcomings in the develpoment process, agressivel went after game farmers by shutting down their sites, and getttin e-bay to cooperate with them in shutting them down. Maybe some people with some skills could wreak some havoc with the well known isk selling sites. Read here: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/08/business/gaming.php
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.30 09:35:00 - [54] My list now contains 44 names for macro/isk farmers in domain region alone.... All over 1 month old, ships flying in retrievers, mammoth and apocs. this collected after a few hours of working well not even that, only when I move around ... and watch local. me and a corpmate encountered one day some macro/isk farmers that where mining into a secure container (in 0.8 or 0.9 system don't remember but they could not anchor it and they just used it to put ore in for the hauler... where 2 retrievers and a hauler. We bunched the container around, dragged ore from it (was open) without reciving flagging ofcourse and in general harrassed them as much as we could to get a response... none !!!! Since both of us did not have a hauler around we just blew the ore up (our own containers)... petition where sent... are they gone ??? nope. I tell you only real way to combat this is to make mining in playercorps only.... and no I don't belive eve community would wardec so many corps just because of easy kills... (they would wardec macro/isk farmers into playercorps). I can't back this up with numbers but I am pretty sure that the problem of griefplay towards small corps with newbies are not that big of a problem. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Taco Perez	Posted - 2005.12.30 11:17:00 - [55] Edited by: Taco Perez on 30/12/2005 11:19:01 RAWR! Macrominers must die! I disrupted one macro guy controlling two sets of miners in Onga earlier. The first set was 3 miners in mining barges, each 2 months 3 days old with 1 hauler (benmin) 2 months 3 days old. The second set was 3 mining barges and 1 hauler, each 2 months 14 days old (ccandy hauling.) Both sets of miners were in the same noob corp (CAS) Both sets of haulers were in the same noob corp (FNA) I jet a dupe can in both sets and move their ore to mine. In both cases, they jet a new can entitled by numbers 00000000, 111111111, 22222222 etc. I get the macro haulers to flag in both cases and kill them both. The macro controller, voiced by popman, was not happy: --------------------------------------------------------------- Channel ID: 2104244517 Channel Name: Private Chat (popman) Listener: Taco Perez Session started: 2005.12.30 10:24:14 --------------------------------------------------------------- [ 2005.12.30 10:24:28 ] Taco Perez > hi [ 2005.12.30 10:25:42 ] popman > fark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuofark yuo This was repeated, as I'm sure you can imagine. These were the first set of 4: mousez, bluezui, supspy (miners in barges) and benmin (iteron 4) The other set of 4: <crap I forgot>, popman, blue<somethingorother> (miners in barges) and ccandy hauling in an iteron 3. Now if only location agents worked properly...

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