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Sakira LeCastantas
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Posted - 2006.04.28 22:12:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Sakira LeCastantas on 28/04/2006 22:14:41
This idea is awesome 
This would make eve so much more versatile, let people get in at stars, but no indication when or whatsoever. Just like regular jumpgates, they will be the systems only way of entrance, and with only one place to camp, it should even become more easely to defend a system, or a region, because a fleet could go anywhere fast.
In 0.0, having sovereignty could make it possible to place certain devices which could disrupt incoming traffic unless you have the right password or belong to the right corp/alliance/right standings. or pay the tax, or you try to bypass the disruption by force-jumping it, but revealing that your coming in and where. Or you get shipdamage or even come in in a pod, or you end up 5k AU behind a system because of the disruptor, lol, so many possibilities  
My sig in Turbo-Mode
Sexyness Level 5  |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.28 22:18:00 -
[92]
Yep. You willing to pay CCP to spend the time to code it and set up another server like it?
Because it's a very very different game you're describing from Eve, and I for one have no wish to suffer through the problems it would invariable cause.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Lygos
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Posted - 2006.04.29 03:38:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yep. You willing to pay CCP to spend the time to code it and set up another server like it?
Because it's a very very different game you're describing from Eve, and I for one have no wish to suffer through the problems it would invariable cause.
Actually, it may only require a single model or a single variable. The gate is basically an invisible object with a "permission radius." Change a single variable to expand that radius to near grid-size, and you have a whole new game. It doesn't really matter if they keep the gate or not then. Of course, I would still suggest that some kind of countdown be required to initiate a system change rather than the near-instantaneous protocol we use now. But the latter would certainly require a good deal more development.
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Set Orbit
Eunoia: The persistent suspicion that the universe is secretly conspiring to quietly improve one's life |
Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.29 05:33:00 -
[94]
removing the stargates only greatly effects the people who matter least. the gate snipers that shut down the nice low sec short routes. they can just learn to pirate the astroid belts like real pilots.
as for defending space, alliances can get off their asses and use patrols rather then camping regional choke points. wanna claim space it should be hard as hell to keep its boarders secure. think of the US-Mexico border, the INS cant just camp the roads and pop illegals as they try and get in, no they have to patrol the entire boarder.
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Blood Gutter
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:07:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Blood Gutter on 29/04/2006 19:08:09
as for defending space, alliances can get off their asses and use patrols rather then camping regional choke points. wanna claim space it should be hard as hell to keep its boarders secure. think of the US-Mexico border, the INS cant just camp the roads and pop illegals as they try and get in, no they have to patrol the entire boarder.
I hate when people say this, but this is a game. I don't think alliances should need 100 people flying around in every system they control 24/7 just to make sure nobody's slipping in through the back door. EVE is huge and people can already move around pretty quietly relative to every other MMO I've seen. If you're going to remove chokepoints then alliances need to be able to at least set up some kind of sentry-alarm that would alert them when, for example, corps with 0.0 standing or lower jumped in. Maybe put in a few minutes delay to keep it from being too powerful, but if you take away the ability to actually restrict areas you have to compensate with some kind of increased ability to go find the intruders.
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Aion Amarra
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:46:00 -
[96]
Blood Gutter:
If it was done like I suggested it, all you'd have to do is set up a POS in the systems you want to defend and install a sensor array in there.
Everyone with the corresponding roles would get a warning along the lines of "Unidentified Jump-In detected in system xxx" and allied guys in the same system might even get a target marker to point out the jump in point. As jumping would take some time, you'd actually get warned at least a short time in advance.
Instead of sitting on top of the gate 24/7 you could actually do something useful in the meantime. Like ratting or - gasp - even mining.
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Capship Overhaul |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:30:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 29/04/2006 20:30:05
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
removing the stargates only greatly effects the people who matter least. the gate snipers that shut down the nice low sec short routes. they can just learn to pirate the astroid belts like real pilots.
No, it affects every single PvPer
Because as soon as someone comes within scanner range, the targets will just warp off to another system. Sigh.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Sakira LeCastantas
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Posted - 2006.04.29 21:01:00 -
[98]
Well then, lets make it so that you can only initiate those jumps from sun to sun, so you have to be at a sun to initiate jump. So the sun is the only system access point.
My sig in Turbo-Mode
Sexyness Level 5 |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.29 21:12:00 -
[99]
Then instead of multiple gates per system, you have one.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Sakira LeCastantas
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Posted - 2006.04.30 09:57:00 -
[100]
I think by doing this eve would be much more challeging for both the hunting and the hunted.
My sig in Turbo-Mode
Sexyness Level 5 |
Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.04.30 10:20:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Then instead of multiple gates per system, you have one.
A gate with a warp in radius millions of km across. So it would be hard to camp. My way of getting rid of stargates compensates for that of course.
I really should publish the complete idea...been working on it for monthes.
Sov 2.1
T3 BS |
Za'thras
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Posted - 2006.04.30 10:42:00 -
[102]
What about this idea?
Keep the gates and the ways things are now but add more functionality to them.
Instead of jumping to an exact destination, you can jump to any gate in the current region or to a regional border gate. You would still be in the current region but save a lot of jumps. To go to a different region you would have to use the gates normally between regions. That way you still have to make a small number of jumps to transverse the galaxy.
You can also make this ability to use the gates like this run on an agression timer. If you are pvping or in engagements, the gates will only let you make the one predetermined jump. For the players that are not in hostilities and have no aggression timer on them, the gates will let you jump to multiple destinations.
This I think will keep pvpers happy and add some functionality to the game.
Some good examples would be that a player wouldn't have to fly 25 jumps or more to buy a special ship or mod and waste an hour or more doing so. That time could be spent doing more of what you like to do.
--You can respond to help your friends, corp or alliance a lot faster, if your aggression timer is 0.
--You can go rat hunting for a while, take a time out, then go run a few agent missions back in empire space without having to jump 30 or more jumps taking an hour to do so.
--You can also manage and take care of your POS(s) better.
--There are many more possibilities. (Just can't think of anymore atm.)
This would expand the EVE universe to a lot of people. I myself, would travel deep into 0.0 space to have fun once in a while if I didn't have the headaches of 30 plus jumps and/or running through a system that someone has control of with their POS(s) and bothering them needlessly. Once I got out there and got an aggression timer on me, I would have to travel normally one jump at a time. But that is ok for me.
Comments?
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Lord Slater
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Posted - 2006.04.30 15:03:00 -
[103]
Crap idea BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD GO AWAY YOU BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD IDEA.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.30 15:33:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Then instead of multiple gates per system, you have one.
A gate with a warp in radius millions of km across. So it would be hard to camp. My way of getting rid of stargates compensates for that of course.
I really should publish the complete idea...been working on it for monthes.
Then you can make BM's within the area and never be vulnrable at the entrance. Sigh...it still sounds like today. (insta out, vulnrable on the other side)
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Dravin Dread
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Posted - 2006.04.30 22:21:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Nysile Verazi
I find it amusing, that the main number of people against this, use the excuse no jumpgates = no pvp. Well why is that unless you're a gate camper? I have yet to see one person who says that give a good, valid reason.
You are so right, this is one of my pet issues, to get rid of jump gates and find another paradigm, so I have seen the lazy gate campers whine and complain about this idea.
CCP wants more players out in low sec, but right now it is TOO EASY for lazy pirates and selfish 0.0 alliances.
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Dravin Dread
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Posted - 2006.04.30 22:27:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Blood Gutter
I hate when people say this, but this is a game. I don't think alliances should need 100 people flying around in every system they control 24/7 just to make sure nobody's slipping in through the back door.
Yes, it is a game, so why should a few players be allowed to dominate the majority of systems? The only reason they can dominate is because they are allowed to be LAZY. If you want a chat channel, where you hang around the entrance to some area so you can gank someone, go play a mud, those are FREE, that should satisfy the lazy people.
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Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.04.30 22:30:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Then instead of multiple gates per system, you have one.
A gate with a warp in radius millions of km across. So it would be hard to camp. My way of getting rid of stargates compensates for that of course.
I really should publish the complete idea...been working on it for monthes.
Then you can make BM's within the area and never be vulnrable at the entrance. Sigh...it still sounds like today. (insta out, vulnrable on the other side)
Actually my idea lessens the certainty by alot, you need specific types of ships (Interceptors) to pull ships out of Transwarp. As for Star camping, wouldn't work. You only need to Transwarp to a star, not from one. Transwarp would need to cost fuel and would need to take significantly longer to engage than standard warp. As well as the ability to detect and intercept ships in Transwarp. My idea has it that ships in Transwarp give off a powerful energy signal that will show up for Interceptors and they can 'Intercept Target' which will launch them into Transwarp and then they can catch it and tackle it.
Of course this provides interesting tactical situations, like how to get your BSes to the intercepted ship. Or maybe have interceptors drop the target out in the same grid. Number of possible solutions and alterations are possible.
CONCORD would be able to interdict Transwarp Drives so high sec gankers wouldnt be able to cut and run.
And unlike warp, Transwarp has a locked in charge time, which has nothing to do with forward velocity or ship agility. The mass of the ship is the main contributor.
Sov 2.1
T3 BS |
Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.05.01 00:01:00 -
[108]
gates arent required for pvp because at some point the enemy will reach a destination at which point you warp scram them and kill.
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Bhuknar Hhallas
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Posted - 2006.05.01 00:17:00 -
[109]
Since when did gate camping become PvP? Your lamers are comical. I all for removing jump gates. In Star Wars the interdictor class vessel was able to "pull" ships out of warp if they pass through the system. The same can happen in eve.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.01 00:24:00 -
[110]
Viktor Fyretracker, and how do I know which one of 50+ systems he went to?
Eximius Josari, as I said...that'd mean you'd never catch anyone. You have one star with friendly defences. Soon as anything shows on scanner, you're off there. And using resources? Um... resources you'll be able to get in EVERY system right? Or people WILL get stranded.
You're describing a game VERY VERY different from Eve. Not saying that it's not worthwhile, but that it's not Eve.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Yotoshi Akagi
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Posted - 2006.05.01 00:30:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Yotoshi Akagi on 01/05/2006 00:33:29
As said many times... Yes removing the stargates would kill off PvP...
This game would collapse on the entire idea of removing stargates. This would remove war and fighting in general. It would end up making the game obsolete. And without people fighting and killing each other the economy in general would collapse. People would not be making any money on ships and equipment because no one would loose any of there ships or weapons. Listen its a bad idea in my opinion because without the loss of ships from war you end up kicking out more then one leg not just pvp in general.
Just me stating my opinion on the idea though I see other people have the same idea I do.
Also its like developing a whole new system that would have to be alot of work by the devs. Also there would be alot of bugs that would cause people to be angry with a change like this. Alot of game time would be lost alot of things would collapse people will leave the game. I just think in general its a bad idea that would effect alot of things it would effect players and developers. It would effect gameplay in general and it would require alot of man hours.
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Roddic
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Posted - 2006.05.01 05:05:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Roddic on 01/05/2006 05:12:28
Edited by: Roddic on 01/05/2006 05:10:27
this is a very bad idea.
the whole game has been built around the jumps gates, their there for more than just looks. its what the eve settlers origanally came through. and what the empire races use to war(er politics) upon each other, so instead of trying to get rid of them, add in a random factor (randomly jump to places unknown (possibly a different server, or a whole different region of eve) on a very small percentage).
Edit:
a random chance could also yield.
extending a jump buble out to include all ships around the gate and jumping them to random locations around the eve universe. would be an excitting end to gate camps and probably pickup a few unwanted travelers as well. who says space travel has to be safe all the time :)
edit2:
spelling was horrible
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Dravin Dread
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Posted - 2006.05.01 11:14:00 -
[113]
There is another option and that is to get rid of warp jamming and reduce the effects of webbers. This would even things up a bit more between the gate campers and everyone else.
Perhaps make it such that warp jammers and webbers don't work near jump gates at all in a 200km radius.
I'm sure the lazy gate campers will still whine, even at this simple idea.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.05.01 13:57:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Dravin Dread
There is another option and that is to get rid of warp jamming and reduce the effects of webbers. This would even things up a bit more between the gate campers and everyone else.
Perhaps make it such that warp jammers and webbers don't work near jump gates at all in a 200km radius.
I'm sure the lazy gate campers will still whine, even at this simple idea.
How about you just refain from posting ok ?
I mean, that must be the least thought through post in 2006 so far.
Anyway, back to subject.
Why not have both ? Gates AND jump-travel. Give jumptravel a minimum as well as maximum distance unless using a cynofield. Give usage of the gate system some bonuses, like the autopilot, or the lack of fuel usage. Or maybe just declare jumpdrives illegal and have them banned in empire in total ?
The very least you need however is to make jumps traceable in a manner that is both fast and with a high degree of success. Riskless travel does not fit within Eve's stucture since the other aspects of gameplay are already riskless.
I can see some good possibilities in giving all (larger?) ships jumpdrives. But there's definately room for very bad stuff too. And tbh, i doubt CCP will consider the whole thing anyway.
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Dravin Dread
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Posted - 2006.05.01 14:10:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
How about you just refain from posting ok ?
I mean, that must be the least thought through post in 2006 so far.
Why don't you? No one needs your petty uselessnet comments, go post on alt.flamers, seems more your style.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.05.01 14:40:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Dravin Dread
Originally by: Rod Blaine
How about you just refain from posting ok ?
I mean, that must be the least thought through post in 2006 so far.
Why don't you? No one needs your petty uselessnet comments, go post on alt.flamers, seems more your style.
Haha.
Right, well, enjoy your stay. Seeing your posts I'm going to guess you won't be one to hang around long.
And maybe that's a good thing.
What I meant is that your post is pure opinion-based drivel with no thoguht whatsoever spent on overthinking the broader consequences of your suggestion.
Maybe that's a tad more clear ? You can say alot about me and my posting, but not that I don't have arguments for my opinions.
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Cyberus
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Posted - 2006.05.01 15:15:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Then instead of multiple gates per system, you have one.
A gate with a warp in radius millions of km across. So it would be hard to camp. My way of getting rid of stargates compensates for that of course.
I really should publish the complete idea...been working on it for monthes.
I supose you never did warping to the Sun planet. There is only 1 unviseble warp beacon. So do not matter from what position in system you will warp to sun you will be end warp in same position. lets say same as ( gates, belts, stations and other objects in space) . So simple way. If gates will be removed and in place of that jump beacons will be placed by sun planets there will be only 1 place where ships will enter and leave systems and you will be not need fly millions km across the sun to catch those ships.
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Dravin Dread
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Posted - 2006.05.01 16:44:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Dravin Dread
Originally by: Rod Blaine
How about you just refain from posting ok ?
I mean, that must be the least thought through post in 2006 so far.
Why don't you? No one needs your petty uselessnet comments, go post on alt.flamers, seems more your style.
Haha.
Right, well, enjoy your stay. Seeing your posts I'm going to guess you won't be one to hang around long.
And maybe that's a good thing.
What I meant is that your post is pure opinion-based drivel with no thoguht whatsoever spent on overthinking the broader consequences of your suggestion.
Maybe that's a tad more clear ? You can say alot about me and my posting, but not that I don't have arguments for my opinions.
Ah, the hypocrite has revealed him self. I was right, you need to be on uselessnet. Let's guess, next you'll point out spelling and gramatical errors.
If you do not like an idea, you need to insult the individual to make your point. You'll note that it was YOU that started with the insulting comments. Ad hominen comments like yours do not belong on these forums. Take it someplace else. I returned the favor, and you have shown your hand by walking right into it.
If you do not like an view, then say so, you do not need to attack the poster in anyway, you have done so, and in so doing have contradicted your own words and actions.
This is a forum (go look up the word in a dictionary) for the sole purpose of sharing ideas, not a place for you to attempt to stroke your ego by attacking individuals. |
Drizit
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Posted - 2006.05.01 18:12:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Cyberus
I supose you never did warping to the Sun planet. There is only 1 unviseble warp beacon. So do not matter from what position in system you will warp to sun you will be end warp in same position. lets say same as ( gates, belts, stations and other objects in space) . So simple way. If gates will be removed and in place of that jump beacons will be placed by sun planets there will be only 1 place where ships will enter and leave systems and you will be not need fly millions km across the sun to catch those ships.
The problem with creating only one ingress/egress point per system is when you have places like Jita with so many jumping in and out at any one time. At the moment, it's spread out across so many gates so no single gate is overloaded. Imagine Jita with just one gate for all destinations in and out
There has to be a spread so that no single point can get overloaded. I like the idea that a jump cloud can be analysed so that you can see where someone went ala Elite style pursuit. A variant of this could be used so that any posible copyright infringement isn't involved, maybe the cloud residual is enough for you to use it to jump yourself to the same destination with little or no fuel use. That way, any persuit cannot be foiled easily by simply jumping to a destination. It also allows for other ships from your own corp or gang to jump to the same point as yourself, thus allowing fleets to pass through and form at the destination.
As for cap ships, they could have larger jump distances than a normal ship without using cyno fields or huge ones using cyno fields. Dreads and carriers and such have their own uses so would not be as defunkt as some have said. A dread in a fleet can still devastate using siege mode and a carrier can still have repair, rearm and refit capabilities (not sure if they have repair facilities now so just assuming they have). Carriers could also be used to transport BS's all at once so they arrive at the same time. So cap ships still have thier uses in fleet battles.
If the gates are kept and fuel is required to jump, you still have to option of using gates if you run out of fuel. No, all systems may not have fuel so either you plan your route carefully and use the fuel only when necessary or you take the chance that your last jump in point is going to have fuel available. This also means that a miscalc could drop you into a hostile camp with no fuel to jump out and a hostile pos means no fuel can be bought. Now you have to use the gate and, at the same time, avoid hunting parties.
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Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.05.01 18:17:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Cyberus
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Then instead of multiple gates per system, you have one.
A gate with a warp in radius millions of km across. So it would be hard to camp. My way of getting rid of stargates compensates for that of course.
I really should publish the complete idea...been working on it for monthes.
I supose you never did warping to the Sun planet. There is only 1 unviseble warp beacon. So do not matter from what position in system you will warp to sun you will be end warp in same position. lets say same as ( gates, belts, stations and other objects in space) . So simple way. If gates will be removed and in place of that jump beacons will be placed by sun planets there will be only 1 place where ships will enter and leave systems and you will be not need fly millions km across the sun to catch those ships.
Right now it does yes, but it would not be hard to change it.
Sov 2.1
T2 BS |
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