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Forlani
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:25:00 -
[1]
Ive been reading alot of the threads people have been making about the current state of the T2 market. It all boils down to supply and demand.
There is a vastly limited supply, and a huge demand. This is alot like the current situation that OPEC has. There is an ever decreasing supply, but an ever expanding demand. They gouge the markets heavily and when people complain too much they just stop production to reinforce how necessary their product is.
What is the worlds solution to this? Well currently we just sit there and take it, but we are also developing means to escape from our dependance on oil. I think we need something of the like in EVE too.
I dont think this means T3 BPO's, but other than that im not sure. CCP have sat on the sidelines for quite some time now, maintaining the line that the market is player driven (one of the things that define this game compared to others) but time has come where they need to intervine so that more people can get into T2 production.
When i say production i mean production. Not seeding more bpo's just so they can be sold back to the already established T2 producer's so they can continue their stranglehold on the markt. But to people who activly produce and have worked towards this for a long time now. (please note this would NOT include me)
CCP we need you to look into this and discuss your idea's along with the player base idea's (becuase they are crying out and have been for sometime for something to be done about this) and come to some sort of compromise.
T2 should be special, but it should be affordable, & available too.
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Mina Roberts
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:28:00 -
[2]
what is this? make a new thread for every post about T2? go post in one of the other threads
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Voculus
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:31:00 -
[3]
Well, CCP could simply take their stuff from them and redistibute the wealth, or they could fine them, or do both, and maybe ban them. All for the "greater good", mind you.
OK, I'm only kidding. I don't want to adapt our current real-world system into EVE, and destroy what these people have accomplished, and discourage anyone from venturing into that line of work.
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Ramses OverDark
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:33:00 -
[4]
If T2 BPO / BPCs were significantly more common, folks would busy themselves with accuminating the T2 building materials from moonmining... which would be much more of an incentive to push corps to 0.0 than anything CCP has come up with so far.
Make people fight over the resources, not the BPOs themselves, it's time the "Lottery" became like any other agent reward system, when you get the points, you pick ur prize.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:36:00 -
[5]
There is a cartel on *2* T2 BPO's, and one of them keeps prices reasonable enough for it not to cause comment.
The Cap II fiasco was caused by the fact that CCP suddenly made them worthwhile.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Mortus Harbinger
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mortus Harbinger on 28/12/2005 11:36:33
 Originally by: Mina Roberts
what is this? make a new thread for every post about T2? go post in one of the other threads
What is this? Make a new alt for every post about T2? Go post with your main
Mort
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:37:00 -
[7]
a much wider distribtuion of tech 2 BPCs via storyline agents on a limited amount per day (but still 1-10run BPCs) across all t2 BP aresa (i guess lower value items moreso and higher ends less)
How about also having NPC commander kills in belts and missions very rarley drop BPCs for factional items - same goes for NPC pirate regions. R and D agents in low sec and 0.0
RAM drops in low sec are much greater than high sec eventually those screaming about RAM shortages will make it out to low sec. Until then empire prices will soar leading to low sec buyes reselling in empire.
Otherwise i think things are being looked at. If t2 becomes to expensive then the factional items will become a substitute for t2.
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:39:00 -
[8]
Sure, if you want to do freighter runs hauling RAM's in, you'll have buyers in the right locations. However, will this supply be consistant? Can't do a regular deal or offer that good prices if it won't be.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Wayfinder
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:41:00 -
[9]
Well, I'm sorry, but I have to put my 2 isk into the hat here as well.
1. I know this is a game, but it is based alot around REAL WORLD ECONOMICS
2. Example is OIL.
3. Hands up, Who has the most oil?
4. Hands up, Who wants most of the oil?
5. Equate Oil to T2 BPO's
6. It is Scarse? Yes? Well then Supply and Demand will drive the Price!
7. If you don't buy it, then the cartels will feel the pinch
8. You know why they don't care? It is becuase there are people out there that WILL by it
9. Do I feel that the lottery should change? Well....Yeah (I would also love to start my own cartel  )
10. I know my example is bad, but stop complaining. CCP is NOT going to change it in the near future.
11. Flame away!
Regards,
Wayfinder
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Ramses OverDark
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Wayfinder
Well, I'm sorry, but I have to put my 2 isk into the hat here as well.
1. I know this is a game, but it is based alot around REAL WORLD ECONOMICS
2. Example is OIL.
3. Hands up, Who has the most oil?
4. Hands up, Who wants most of the oil?
5. Equate Oil to T2 BPO's
6. It is Scarse? Yes? Well then Supply and Demand will drive the Price!
7. If you don't buy it, then the cartels will feel the pinch
8. You know why they don't care? It is becuase there are people out there that WILL by it
9. Do I feel that the lottery should change? Well....Yeah (I would also love to start my own cartel )
10. I know my example is bad, but stop complaining. CCP is NOT going to change it in the near future.
11. Flame away!
T2 BPOs are not OIL.
OIL is a resource, the knowledge to refine it is freely availbale, and as such IF eve was indeed to follow the real world parallel you vaunt, it would be the OIL and not the BPO to make it into something worthwhile, that folks fight over.
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Unbeleever
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mina Roberts
what is this? make a new thread for every post about T2? go post in one of the other threads
What is this? Post in a thread with your alt day, ya troll go post in a another thread, the guy is just tryin to talk damn pointless flamers.
Sorry I have no opinon on this subject.
For me... Group therapy is a 30 pack of BEER!!
Then all of the voices are satisfied. |
High Sierra
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wayfinder
Well, I'm sorry, but I have to put my 2 isk into the hat here as well.
1. I know this is a game, but it is based alot around REAL WORLD ECONOMICS
2. Example is OIL.
3. Hands up, Who has the most oil?
4. Hands up, Who wants most of the oil?
5. Equate Oil to T2 BPO's
6. It is Scarse? Yes? Well then Supply and Demand will drive the Price!
7. If you don't buy it, then the cartels will feel the pinch
8. You know why they don't care? It is becuase there are people out there that WILL by it
9. Do I feel that the lottery should change? Well....Yeah (I would also love to start my own cartel )
10. I know my example is bad, but stop complaining. CCP is NOT going to change it in the near future.
11. Flame away!
does that mean we have to invade Jove space (Iraq) because they have Titans (WMD) even though the reality is we want their T2 Bpo's? (oil) and they dont actually have any titans at all?
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Annie 46947
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Posted - 2005.12.28 11:59:00 -
[13]
Oh goody, another "big oil is the Devil." fanatic. I bet you believe in the 500 MPG carb that " BIG OIL!" bought and hid in a safe along with water powered cars, viable solar technology, and Jimmy Hoffa. sigh. I don't have time for this. Go read a book not written by Green Peace or some bleeding heart draft dodging commie liberal- AND PULL UP YOUR PANTS!
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kebab v2
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Posted - 2005.12.28 12:03:00 -
[14]
The whole system is wacky, some of this t2 stuff has been on the open market for years and yet no npc corp has bothered too reverse engineer this stuff.
If its been out over a year seed its bpo on the market, problem solved.
The T2 cartels are the real pirates in eve, concord badly needs an office of fair trading.
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.12.28 12:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ramses OverDark
Originally by: Wayfinder
Well, I'm sorry, but I have to put my 2 isk into the hat here as well.
1. I know this is a game, but it is based alot around REAL WORLD ECONOMICS
2. Example is OIL.
3. Hands up, Who has the most oil?
4. Hands up, Who wants most of the oil?
5. Equate Oil to T2 BPO's
6. It is Scarse? Yes? Well then Supply and Demand will drive the Price!
7. If you don't buy it, then the cartels will feel the pinch
8. You know why they don't care? It is becuase there are people out there that WILL by it
9. Do I feel that the lottery should change? Well....Yeah (I would also love to start my own cartel )
10. I know my example is bad, but stop complaining. CCP is NOT going to change it in the near future.
11. Flame away!
T2 BPOs are not OIL.
OIL is a resource, the knowledge to refine it is freely availbale, and as such IF eve was indeed to follow the real world parallel you vaunt, it would be the OIL and not the BPO to make it into something worthwhile, that folks fight over.
Actually its a decent analogy.
While the knowledge of refining is no secret, neither is production i Eve.
Its access to the ressource thats limited. Oil as well as T2 BPOs.
What oil is up against is alternatives. They are somewhat missing in Eve. The new and big influx of t2 BPOS after RMR should create something that might subsititure substitutes, so to speak.
More interests for peoples isk, should drive down prices on the individual markets.
Still think its ok with demand vs supply driven market, even with entry barriers. Creates a more interesting market. Creates fashion, mood and overpricing swings.
Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques |
Hill Rom
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Posted - 2005.12.28 12:07:00 -
[16]
I like this thread...
I like the current system
the only down side is that cartels are hard to stop - I have not brought T2 Cap rechargers for over 8 months as I dis-agree with the price, I think corps should have more financial information available so you can embargo them in war etc - I don't know i am mumbling now
Keep up the weird comments - like it
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BOldMan
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Posted - 2005.12.28 12:16:00 -
[17]
Edited by: BOldMan on 28/12/2005 12:22:59
Originally by: Ramses OverDark
Originally by: Wayfinder
Well, I'm sorry, but I have to put my 2 isk into the hat here as well.
2. Example is OIL.
10. I know my example is bad, but stop complaining. CCP is NOT going to change it in the near future.
T2 BPOs are not OIL.
OIL is a resource, the knowledge to refine it is freely availbale, and as such IF eve was indeed to follow the real world parallel you vaunt, it would be the OIL and not the BPO to make it into something worthwhile, that folks fight over.
We cannot fight over T2 oil extraction. Your comparison is out of question. T2 is a forced and unrealistic implementation. In WW2 every major german advanced weapon was counterattacked by allies in max 6 months. In eve we cannot do it NOTHING. And not buying (stagnation) means not progress. Do you inted to do level 1 missions with frigs and mine velspar or hunt in 0.0 with snipe setup for rest of your eve life?
[deleted last remak]
Originally by: Treacle Shazboat
Trying to buy from the market. The buy window is blank. Try to send a petition dropped me to the desktop.
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Laqum
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Posted - 2005.12.28 12:21:00 -
[18]
Just a reminder, keep it on topic. Please refrain from useless coments like this one.
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Forlani
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Posted - 2005.12.28 16:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Annie 46947
Oh goody, another "big oil is the Devil." fanatic. I bet you believe in the 500 MPG carb that " BIG OIL!" bought and hid in a safe along with water powered cars, viable solar technology, and Jimmy Hoffa. sigh. I don't have time for this. Go read a book not written by Green Peace or some bleeding heart draft dodging commie liberal- AND PULL UP YOUR PANTS!
Hmm well my father works for shell, as a senior manager In their accounting department, his brother, my uncle works for shell in production mainly in the UAE. Id say i have a fair idea of the realities. But hey if you think you know better, your entitled to your own opinion.
But would you mind pointing out where you post has anything to do with the topic about tryinmg to get something done to fix the issue's people have with T2 production?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.28 16:08:00 -
[20]
I wish t2 production was a cartel, I'd make more money.
Unfortunately for me, its not. 
-------------
Please fix the EW stacking bug :(
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Frobisher
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Posted - 2005.12.28 16:45:00 -
[21]
I agree with Sonofollo.
Right now T2 BPO's seem to be a lottery. I think they need to be turned into an achievable reality that people can work towards.
Remove the BPO's and have Agent offers for limited run BPC's for Research Points.
This would see a balancing of the market based on player demand. As the more popular T2 items would be accepted by players as offers.
I'm not sure how hard this would be for CCP to implement but it would be a reasonable approach.
The effect in game initially would be dramatic/traumatic.
What do they do about the existing BPO's.
What would the existing large number of RP's people have mean initially. (possible solution is to initally offer low run BPC's for inflated RP's to clear the accumulated RP's).
How are the values of the various BPC's established in terms of RP's
I would expect it to balance out eventually but initially 
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Sykosys
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Posted - 2005.12.28 16:50:00 -
[22]
Ummm to all those comparing the t2 bpos to oil
Oil is not randomly given out to random people LOL
The issue here is the lottery, its well a lottery, and chance sucks. Well for me anyhow 
Please leave the T2 for oil comparison back home.
SYKOSYS
_______________________
"She'll fly apart sir,"
"FLY HER APART THEN!!!" |
Cerwyn Taraman
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Posted - 2005.12.28 16:53:00 -
[23]
To be honest, after seeing how long it takes to get a T2 BPO (1.5 years of research to get anything!), I can see why Tech 2 producers want to make money. There is a long amount of time spent accumulating enough RPs to even have a chance in the lottery. Yes, it's not a great system and people with 5 RP's could win one while the guy with 10 million might never get one, but don't come up with solutions that completely marginalize the time investment of the existing T2 producers. T2 *should* be more profitable than T1 as it takes a lot more effort to build, many different components and reactions, and costs are much higher. I think the new T2 auction idea they are going to implement should help this a lot as people with lots of RPs will actually be able to "buy" BPOs with them.
CT
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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2005.12.28 18:05:00 -
[24]
Solution:
1. Earn some ISK - Buy T2 BPO - that's what most 'Cartels' did (albeit there is only one real cartel out there, CAP 2. This is only because nobody can live without mod and CCP dropped only 8 in game. It should genuinely be fixed by CCP by inserting missing 12-16 BPOs in game as all other T2 BPOs have at least 20 copies)
2. Start you own research agent (oh wait, you need to train for that and do missions
so it is an investment of time)
3. If you're too lazy for 1) or 2), come to forums to ***** sine T2 BPO hasn't appeared in your hangar automagically yet.
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Cerwyn Taraman
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Posted - 2005.12.28 18:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Naal Morno
Solution:
2. Start you own research agent (oh wait, you need to train for that and do missions
so it is an investment of time)
QFT. See my above comment about 1.5 year investment to get my T2 BPO. Start up a bunch of research agents on your alts etc. and then wait patiently and you have a decent chance of getting something eventually. The existing T2 people can't "gip" you out of a BPO, but they will certainly BUY it from all the people who get the BPOs just to sell them and make instant return on it. If you don't want cartels, convince people to stop selling the BPOs to them. Many of these cartels probably never got a T2 drop, they are just spending isk to buy the BPOs from people who did get them.
CT
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.28 18:35:00 -
[26]
i read so much bout cartels,
there are lots and lots of t2 items ont he market, and most of them for resonable prices imo.
now i got 3 bpos in my evecareer on 2 characters, and the one i have got now, will stay with me,
and im hardly a cartel ;)
means theres a competition between me and the other bpo owners, thats whats all about - and the few bpos where its not case, like the infamous capt2, well ur fault when u buy that.
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jonies
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Posted - 2005.12.28 19:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
now i got 3 bpos in my evecareer on 2 characters, and the one i have got now, will stay with me,
and im hardly a cartel ;)
Can you tell me how thats fair that you have gotten 3 t2 bpos in your eve life (unless you bought them) I thought it was a lottery not a sure thing.
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csebal
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Posted - 2005.12.28 19:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: csebal on 28/12/2005 19:15:36
T2 Research is not an investment apart from the initial time you spent learning the necessary skills, getting the necessary standings. After that, it's a pure 'wait and pray' situation.
The fact alone, that people can have 15 research ALTS doing nothing but accumulating research points is stupid.
The best CCP could do is to create a whole new TL2 system, scrap the old one, reimbruise the current BP owners and research point owners, and let us all forget the fiasco that is called TL2 lottery.
the major points any system should fit:
-) make it effort driven : no more chances or luck. You either work for it and get it, or you are a lazy a$$ and starve.
-) make it demand driven : some items are more useful than others. Having 20 manufacturers of *item A* can result in severe shortages, while the same 20 manufacturers for *item B* could produce a year long stockpile in a week. Instead of releasing 20 pcs of everything, release a small ammount first, then release new ones if the demand for the item justifies it.
-) make it dynamic : atm once you get a bpo, you got a money print machine. It only varies in effectivity. Why not increase the drop rate of BPs, in exchange of making blueprints deteiorate over time? In other words, only release limited run blueprints. It would not effect the manufacturers, but it would give the 'researchers' - agent runners doing research missions a steady demand. Additionally, it would open up manufacturing possibilities to smaller companies, not owning billions to build full blueprint originals, as they would definitely be able to afford copies.
So simple, yet so unlikely that CCP would eventually do anything about it.
*snip* Please do not flame/troll in your signature! -Garik
I apologize - simply got sick of people who refuse to read. |
Alex Kynes
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Posted - 2005.12.28 19:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sykosys
Ummm to all those comparing the t2 bpos to oil
Oil is not randomly given out to random people LOL
The issue here is the lottery, its well a lottery, and chance sucks. Well for me anyhow
Please leave the T2 for oil comparison back home.
SYKOSYS
Umm. I'm pretty sure oil was given out randomly. At the beginning. Don't even bloody try to argue me there!
-AK
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Mina Roberts
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Posted - 2005.12.28 20:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mortus Harbinger
Edited by: Mortus Harbinger on 28/12/2005 11:36:33
Originally by: Mina Roberts
what is this? make a new thread for every post about T2? go post in one of the other threads
What is this? Make a new alt for every post about T2? Go post with your main
Mort
So your saying that because i dont have a corp i dont have an opinion? OK.....
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