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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
141
   |
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
[Note: this is different than suggesting Local s/b REMOVED]
Problem: Current game balance is broken with players given free and 100% accurate intel on when an enemy enters system. This shifts game balance way to far to the side of the 'defender', as he need merely watch local and have his alt watch local in a system about to be entered, to have 100% protection against being attacked.
EvE players today work around this imbalance by using 'logoffski's, a user-interface and immersion breaking action that involves pre-positioning the agressor toon and actually logging off the game client. The agressor player must then log back into the game client when they feel the time is right to attack, purely required due to game-imbalancing 'local' intel mentioned above. Ultimately, a player should not have to log off their entire game client, to obtain gameplay balance and achieve a way to engage a target.
Solution: Make 'local' chat time delayed.
The duration of delay can be configurable by the devs, and tweaked through implementation, but ultimately a delay would both inject REALITY into the game (i.e. pilots shouldn't have 100% accurate up to the second intel on the entry of an enemy in their system), as well as mitigate the huge imbalance now present to the benefit of defenders.
Injecting such a delay will not sway balance too far to the agressor, because the defender still has other means to try and stay safe from attack. The difference is such means are 'active' and use some form of knowledge or skill, rather than todays 'free' 100% accurate intel and carebear love in the form of realtime 'Local' updates. Said defenders can (and should) use D-SCAN for real-time intel updates.
This proposal is already in place in WH space, where wormhole players have proven they can still find balance between agressor and defender without 'Local' spoon feeding them 100% safety. They use D-SCAN.
Losec and nullsec players also today enhance their safety, by use of D-SCAN, often at short ranges -- to get realtime updates of an incoming attack.
In summary, todays 'local' chat realtime updates on other players (enemies) entering system BREAKS game balance way too far on the side of the defender, and must immediately have a time-delay put into effect to RESTORE game balance between agressor and defender.
(A user could still imediately show in local once typing in a chat message, but until done so a delay on them appearing is critical to restoring game balance)
Additional supporting info can be found here.
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Goti fase
Fase Industries
New Eden Research.
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Personally I think the only change needed is to make it so no one can see the list of players in system. It is not complete removal of a local chat as people will still show up when they say something but it eliminates the list of people that can be viewed by anyone at any time |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
293
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
This proposal is already in place in WH space, where wormhole players have proven they can still find balance between agressor and defender without 'Local' spoon feeding them 100% safety. They use D-SCAN.
Losec and nullsec players also today enhance their safety, by use of D-SCAN, often at short ranges -- to get realtime updates of an incoming attack.
Please, dont try to compare apples and oranges. In WHs delayed local works because you can control exits and cynos doesnt work there. Now, if you were to remove local in null - it'll greatly shift current balance toward attackers: cloakers are already immune to any probing while cloaked, but still can dscan, warp (or wait you in anomaly) and light cyno when needed.
You cannot 'fix' one part of this 2-way problem without breaking balance.
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Goti fase wrote:Personally I think the only change needed is to make it so no one can see the list of players in system. It is not complete removal of a local chat as people will still show up when they say something but it eliminates the list of people that can be viewed by anyone at any time
Perhaps, but for the best chance of implementation success (and adoption by CCP), baby-steps are recommended so their (and carebears) sphincters don't contract too much in single bold moves...
Starting with a time-delay on local, that can be easily tuned by dev's on a go-forward basis (as configuration and not another code release) as a GREAT way to try to restore game balance between agressor and defender, without going too 'extreme' in a single move.
My question is why the flying **** haven't CCP already done this? Its so obviously a game imbalance to give a defender 100% realtime intel on who has entered system, that it just adds more fuel to the fire a disneyland of WoW rejects and retaining their subscriptions trumps real game balance...
Because right now things are WAY too imbalanced in favor of the defender with a realtime 100% accurate local.
D-SCAN is there, use THAT!
(None of which speaks to the huge immersion breakage of 'local' chat. Because gosh yes, in real life a pirate wouldn't turn off his ships identity beacon, and would ALWAYS broadcast on common tracking frequencies their entry into system...::rollseyes::)
Would you like to know more? |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
This proposal is already in place in WH space, where wormhole players have proven they can still find balance between agressor and defender without 'Local' spoon feeding them 100% safety. They use D-SCAN.
Losec and nullsec players also today enhance their safety, by use of D-SCAN, often at short ranges -- to get realtime updates of an incoming attack.
Please, dont try to compare apples and oranges. In WHs delayed local works because you can control exits and cynos doesnt work there. Now, if you were to remove local in null - it'll greatly shift current balance toward attackers: cloakers are already immune to any probing while cloaked, but still can dscan, warp (or wait you in anomaly) and light cyno when needed. You cannot 'fix' one part of this 2-way problem without breaking balance.
Again I would argue that delaying (not removing) local chat would restore balance, because today the defender has 100% realtime and accurate intel on who has entered system. There is no way to argue (IMHO) that an existing game imbalance doesnt exist on part of the defender with that, not when they have D-SCAN!
The comparison with WH space was just to prove that many players today use D-SCAN to great effect to stay safe, the same way others use local realtime updates today in hisec or losec; the difference is that WH players a) have a brain and b) ACTIVELY hit D-SCAN to reap its benefits; local however is FREE and BRAINLESS 100% safety assured....
Meh...
(p.s. Gameplay would be way more compelling, with people having to actually have scouts watching gates for ships coming in and/or D-SCANing them -- than this free 100% accurate & timely intel candy called 'Local' chat...IMHO)
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
446
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 14:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Two very good and worthwhile threads I'd suggest reading are:
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
AND in conjunction with
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Disclaimer: These are not threads opened by me or an alt but by a regular forum member and active player.
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 14:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Unfortunately both threads were initiated a while ago, and NO action re: a delay in local has been taken.
Time for a new thread, with specific focus, and this is it (hopefully).
Would you like to know more? |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Against ALL Authorities
105
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Unfortunately both threads were initiated a while ago, and NO action re: a delay in local has been taken. Time for a new thread, with specific focus, and this is it (hopefully).
how big of a delay are we talking here
|
Humang
Sefem Velox
Swift Angels Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 15:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
I posted something like this in the "So Local Chat vanished, now what?" thread, except I was thinking of having set intervals that local updates, instead of just a straight delay.
Would this be also include high-sec? I mean it would be logical to say that high-sec would be as it sounds and security make sure to know who is entering the system, but It also seems logical that this would become more lax in lower security systems.
I do understand and agree the concern people have about cynos (I live in a WH) no local is nice for catching people, but it becomes and issue that even I can see when someone can drop a painful amount of caps on you.
EDIT:
On second thought, if you jump into a populated system, do you see who's in local, or have to wait for the delay? |
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