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MrFu	Posted - 2005.12.31 18:39:00 - [1] Is there any point at using any other bomber than a manticore at the current state?Yeah,sure rest are quite cheaper,but thats about it.Manticore has overall better stats,and has an extra launcher,which can insta pop most small things (frigs/inties). I know s**** about bombers,but I just look at their stats and see that.Ugh.
Father Crime	Posted - 2005.12.31 18:53:00 - [2] True, but Caldari bombers are hard to fit with 3 launchers, you almost always have to have at least 1 power mod, plus you run out of cpu pretty quick so you sometimes cant fill your midslots with anything usefull. In addition to this, the Caldari bomber is utterly massive, handles like a brick and can jump about 6 AU at a time. It's the best if we are playing EvE OnPaper, but in use its actually a total pain to manuver and use effectivly. DPS wise its the pwn though.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.12.31 18:59:00 - [3] Actually MrFu, it's been determined through testing that at close range, bombers like the Hound (not certain about other two) can actually outdamage the Manticore. So it just depends on what you want the ship for - Manticore rules supreme at standoff ranges, and Hound is better at assault.
MrFu	Posted - 2005.12.31 19:03:00 - [4] Quote: Actually MrFu, it's been determined through testing that at close range, bombers like the Hound (not certain about other two) can actually outdamage the Manticore. So it just depends on what you want the ship for - Manticore rules supreme at standoff ranges, and Hound is better at assault. Really?I was really looking forward getting a hound either way,kind of cheered me up.
Electric Cucumber	Posted - 2005.12.31 19:24:00 - [5] Caldari are a missile race,not the others.So it's logical they have the best missile/rocket ships.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.12.31 19:47:00 - [6] how about that gallente carrier bonus? ------
Mesaanalt	Posted - 2005.12.31 19:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Father Crime True, but Caldari bombers are hard to fit with 3 launchers, you almost always have to have at least 1 power mod, plus you run out of cpu pretty quick so you sometimes cant fill your midslots with anything usefull. In addition to this, the Caldari bomber is utterly massive, handles like a brick and can jump about 6 AU at a time. It's the best if we are playing EvE OnPaper, but in use its actually a total pain to manuver and use effectivly. DPS wise its the pwn though. Uh...nope, Manticore is teh p00n. Yeah yeah, 1x MAPC, buhu, get 3x named cruises and you can fit a BCS in the other low. Plus with the MAPC, you can fit 3x cruises with L4 Covops and a Small Cap Battery II, greatly increasing the warp range, 60+ AU if I remember right. So what if it handles like a pig, it's still got the extra firepower to shoot something down if it gets too close.
TomServo 3000	Posted - 2005.12.31 19:48:00 - [8] Be a Caldari - Best rocks floating in the galaxy!!
hattifnatt	Posted - 2005.12.31 19:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Father Crime True, but Caldari bombers are hard to fit with 3 launchers, you almost always have to have at least 1 power mod, plus you run out of cpu pretty quick so you sometimes cant fill your midslots with anything usefull. In addition to this, the Caldari bomber is utterly massive, handles like a brick and can jump about 6 AU at a time. It's the best if we are playing EvE OnPaper, but in use its actually a total pain to manuver and use effectivly. DPS wise its the pwn though. try fitting 2 cruise launchers on a nemesis and you have 1PG left. (only have adv weapon uppgrades lvl3 though) ___ /o.0\ \___/ <-- This is Jigglypuff!!
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2005.12.31 20:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Actually MrFu, it's been determined through testing that at close range, bombers like the Hound (not certain about other two) can actually outdamage the Manticore. So it just depends on what you want the ship for - Manticore rules supreme at standoff ranges, and Hound is better at assault. Lets see those tests.
Grut	Posted - 2005.12.31 20:45:00 - [11] Edited by: Grut on 31/12/2005 20:45:39 Originally by: Jim Raynor how about that gallente carrier fighters are caldari that bonus should be ours Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Idara	Posted - 2005.12.31 21:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Tasty Burger Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Actually MrFu, it's been determined through testing that at close range, bombers like the Hound (not certain about other two) can actually outdamage the Manticore. So it just depends on what you want the ship for - Manticore rules supreme at standoff ranges, and Hound is better at assault. Lets see those tests. No kidding that the Hound would outdamage the Manticore if the guy was running a Kinetic tank. Like Tasty said, let's see those results. Yes a Hound would outdamage a Manticore attacking armour with the target Kinetic tanking. But then again a Purifier could outdamage everything with it's EM missiles if you attacked an ubertank with 70+ in each Kin/Therm/Explosive. Don't spew crap into a thread and have nothing to back it up. -------------------------------------------------------- Lance Corporal BSC Military
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.12.31 21:28:00 - [13] Actually, I can back it up. Watch:
Uuve Savisaalo	Posted - 2005.12.31 21:56:00 - [14] To begin with, I have never flown a manticore and therefore cannot comment on its preceived superiority or lack thereof. However, I've been flying a hound quite a bit over the past few weeks (and prior to the changes as well) so there is a comment to be made. I do not have maxed out cruise/missile support skills, although most are in III/IV, I do not have missile-specific implants, although plenty in the way of gunnery with all of the specialisation skills maxed out. The particular setup I am using for this involves: vepas' cloak, 2 arbalest cruise, 2 280mm II, a cold-gas afterburner, a sensor booster, a warp scrambler, 2 aux cores and a sensor amplifier in the last low. The rate of fire on the guns will be 6.1 seconds, the damage mod will be 17.1x and optimal 7.5km with EMP. The launchers suffer from a firing rate loop that is longer per salvo than the entire decloak/lock/fire/cloak/ready for decloaking again ringamarole, therefore some time is effectively lost sitting there waiting for your launchers to load the next missile, which is something the howitzers do not suffer from. On average each hits with a combination of em, kinetic and explosive damage dealing a spread of anywhere from 100 to 300+ damage (excluding potential wreckings) every 6.1 seconds. With kinetic (tech1, for now) cruise missiles I can accomodate as much as 500-600 clean damage per individual missile, but the rate of fire is further impeded by the fact that your previously shot salvo will still show as active by the time you decloak and lock for the second time, forcing you to wait additional time before shooting and thusly 1) increasing your chance of being locked and 2) lowering DOT of the launchers. Another thing - frigate-class ships using MWD have a high disparity between their velocity and signature radius, to a point where the latter cannot compensate for the former and you end up doing as little as 20-30 damage a pop with your cruises to a barreling interceptor in orbit. To a manticore this can pretty much spell certain death (especially vs something like a crow that doesn't need to worry about its own velocity when dealing damage) but a hound's 280mm will still hit, offsetting damage dealt by some measure in that situation. Overall I'd prefer a hound any day due to versatility offered. Purely my opinion based on recent combat experience and theorising what a manticore pilot might feel like without a secondary weapon system to fall back upon.
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2005.12.31 22:01:00 - [15] Fitting problems. FITTING PROBLEMS. That's the reason I don't use manticore. Also, it's slower, sluggier, larger, and less capable than the rest of the bombers. Third missile slot is already balanced, imho. --- God-King of Genitalia
Weirda	Posted - 2005.12.31 23:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Weirda on 31/12/2005 23:59:04 Originally by: Idara Don't spew crap into a thread and have nothing to back it up. you should really think about all of the potentials of different SB before spouting this bile. the reality is that each is capable of completely different fittings. sure - much like raven, the manticore is the 'idiot button'... but each and every (well, maybe not the nemesis lol) sb is capable of something else to compensate. the only reason weirda say this is because fly all but nemesis... and actually like manticore the least... once you get that third launcher in there which is it only saving grace, there is not much left to do. purifier - can stack bcu's with the right fitting... and EM is a great cruise to get a bonus on. also can warp much further then the others hound - like istvaan buddy said (had something worked with 250s for me... gonna have to try 280s... didn't have any around, was just scraping off hanger floor) hound is extremely flexible. most fun so far for me was with 2x autos mounted... approach ship... proximity decloak and open up. the autos greatly outdamaged the cruise missile btw... sure, end up in pretty deep armor, but there are 2x less taranis and 1x less ishkur in the world (not at the same time of course). EDIT: Happy New Years Europe! __ Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Idara	Posted - 2006.01.01 00:25:00 - [17] Edited by: Idara on 01/01/2006 00:25:50 Originally by: Weirda Edited by: Weirda on 01/01/2006 00:08:08 Edited by: Weirda on 31/12/2005 23:59:04 Originally by: Idara Don't spew crap into a thread and have nothing to back it up. you should really think about all of the potentials of different SB before spouting this bile. Uh...huh...when did I say that all the other bombers were crap? I said that Mr. Shogaatsu should give some data backing up his claim, rather than just saying "hound pwns all". Weirda should learn to read a post before quoting it and making an inaccurate response. -------------------------------------------------------- Ensign BSC Military
Mesaanalt	Posted - 2006.01.01 00:25:00 - [18] Edited by: Mesaanalt on 01/01/2006 00:25:09
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.01 01:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Weirda hound - like istvaan buddy said (had something worked with 250s for me... gonna have to try 280s... didn't have any around, was just scraping off hanger floor) I much prefer 250's. When a 280 misses because of poor tracking, it hurts. Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Weirda	Posted - 2006.01.01 01:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Idara Edited by: Idara on 01/01/2006 00:25:50 Originally by: Weirda Edited by: Weirda on 01/01/2006 00:08:08 Edited by: Weirda on 31/12/2005 23:59:04 Originally by: Idara Don't spew crap into a thread and have nothing to back it up. you should really think about all of the potentials of different SB before spouting this bile. Uh...huh...when did I say that all the other bombers were crap? I said that Mr. Shogaatsu should give some data backing up his claim, rather than just saying "hound pwns all". Weirda should learn to read a post before quoting it and making an inaccurate response. lol - dont take youself so seriously (or don't drink and post it hard to tell this time of year). by claiming that he was spewing crap - you had obviously not thought about the potential of the hound... other then you kinetic tank statement which was irrelivent... either way - happy new year... you obviously didn't read the rest of weirda post. was contributing information about SB rather then just criticizing others... __ Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Weirda	Posted - 2006.01.01 01:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Weirda hound - like istvaan buddy said (had something worked with 250s for me... gonna have to try 280s... didn't have any around, was just scraping off hanger floor) I much prefer 250's. When a 280 misses because of poor tracking, it hurts. as said - have only tried the 250s yet... may stick with them for that reason. they were all that was laying on hanger floor from other failed experiment... __ Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2006.01.01 01:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Idara Uh...huh...when did I say that all the other bombers were crap? I said that Mr. Shogaatsu should give some data backing up his claim, rather than just saying "hound pwns all". Weirda should learn to read a post before quoting it and making an inaccurate response. Can I ask you something? Did you post with such hostility because there was no data presented, or did you post so because my name happens to be Istvaan Shogaatsu?
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.01 01:38:00 - [23] I'll take them weirda
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2006.01.01 01:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo The particular setup I am using for this involves: vepas' cloak, 2 arbalest cruise, 2 280mm II, a cold-gas afterburner, a sensor booster, a warp scrambler, 2 aux cores and a sensor amplifier in the last low. The rate of fire on the guns will be 6.1 seconds, the damage mod will be 17.1x and optimal 7.5km with EMP. Erm, i might be missing something here, but A) how did you get all that to fit, and B) how did you get the damage mod that high? I have small arty spec 5 and a 3% implant and i only make 14.x, and with covert 5 and adv weapon upgrades 5 i run out of grid...
Uuve Savisaalo	Posted - 2006.01.01 01:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Maya Rkell I much prefer 250's. When a 280 misses because of poor tracking, it hurts. Eh, I am alright with 250 II's but anything with lower rate of fire than what your cloaking/locking cycle takes up is useless because you most likely won't be able to utilise it quite as effectively. Still, whenever I mount an MWD on that thing (quite useful for gate interceptor evasion as with any cloak-capable ship), I only have enough grid for 250mm II's.. Still, a very solid ship as far as bombers go...
Ante	Posted - 2006.01.01 02:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Weirda <snip> EDIT: Happy New Years Europe! Tried chucking a med shield extender II on? 2x cruise launchers, 2x 150mm ac II, med shield extender II...
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.01 03:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Grut Edited by: Grut on 31/12/2005 20:45:39 Originally by: Jim Raynor how about that gallente carrier fighters are caldari that bonus should be ours Sounds like a plan to me. Afterall, anyone whose read the prime fiction knows Caldari know fighters, possibly better than missiles. Making them a Gallente thing because Gallente use drones is pretty silly, as they are something entirely different (just controlled in roughly the same manner). Originally by: Asnar Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support? Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all..... Bush: /me shoots Admiral
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.01.01 04:00:00 - [28] Hound is decent, it does explosive damage. Although total damage output is higher, the fact that it is damaging a usually poor resist helps it imo.
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.01.01 05:00:00 - [29] Hmm i always found the manticore overpowered not cos it can fit 3 launchers but because it hs so many mid slots, if you can stop people locking you've got no problems re-cloaking if needed Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Tulia	Posted - 2006.01.01 07:17:00 - [30] Manticore is a nice ship, but you need really good skills to get everything to fit, and even that won't help you in some cases. It seems best at defense rather than recon. If you have the grid & cpu, I would see a small cap battery II helping it out greatly. And don't neglect warp drive operations V. plus, it does look rather impressive.

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