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BrerLapin
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Posted - 2005.12.31 23:11:00 -
[1]
Where does it state that ships have crews ?
If our ships have crews why arent they paid & how do they avoid casualties during combat? Why dont ships crews grant bonuses due to experience tweaking & other tricks that a experienced crew could impart to the pod commander.
Why do ships need pods if they have a crew? Whilst it grants a significant increase in the commanders response times that wouldnt be important to the response times of the guns & systems. Additionally if a ships armour was penetrated the violent decompressions would wipe out entire sections.
Additionally the entire point of the pod would be to slave all controls to the pilot making a crew unneccesary. Any internal jobs handled by drones or remotes or droids all convceivable technology within EVE. Given the tech level you can assume most devices are solid state & beyond mere tampering with a wrench & screwdriver. In fact the only living soul on a ship would be a janitor in a spacesuit for keeping it shiny.
Oh yeah & theirs no crew listing in the stats ;D.
The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Electric Cucumber
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Posted - 2005.12.31 23:14:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Electric Cucumber on 31/12/2005 23:15:14
Evidence of crew men in your ships
It states that there are at least 6314 crewmen in an Apocalypse..
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Karl Shade
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Posted - 2005.12.31 23:57:00 -
[3]
The pod reduces the need for crew and effectivizes captain<->ship interaction but the prime fiction (above) does clearly state that ships still has them.
My guess is that crew are simply more cost-effective as compared to automation and could propably be replaced by automata by those so inclined.
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BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.01.01 01:20:00 -
[4]
Edited by: BrerLapin on 01/01/2006 01:23:22
Yes I've read that however it offers no explaination to the other points of note. Its only one piece of fiction could it be about the first pod ships is it the current state of crew ship relations ? It could be reffering to some period where crews & pods were operational at the same time. Why dont crew eject when the ship blows? Where are the crew, how skilled are they? What about casualties during combat? Can you recruit a more experienced crew?
Does this mean that a breached hull impairs the tracking & reloading speeds of a ships guns ?
What about frigate crew sizes ? Etc.....
.
The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Karl Shade
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Posted - 2006.01.01 01:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Karl Shade on 01/01/2006 01:32:46
 Originally by: BrerLapin
Edited by: BrerLapin on 01/01/2006 01:23:22
Yes I've read that however it offers no explaination to the other points of note. Its only one piece of fiction could it be about the first pod ships is it the current state of crew ship relations ? It could be reffering to some period where crews & pods were operational at the same time. Why dont crew eject when the ship blows? Where are the crew, how skilled are they? What about casualties during combat? Can you recruit a more experienced crew?
Does this mean that a breached hull impairs the tracking & reloading speeds of a ships guns ?
What about frigate crew sizes ? Etc.....
No official word on crewsizes/skills outside of that story afaik.
As for unoffical words on the matter go however there are some very good fiction on this forum touching on the subject.
Herko Kerghans being one of the best writers on the subject.
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BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.01.01 02:24:00 -
[6]
Yeah hes okay but tbh its really more of an official word on the subject as some of the ranting fools on the forum take the Killers Hand as gospel (Religion opiate of the masses).
Logically a ship doesnt have a crew hence the point in the pod running the ship. If a ship does have a crew they are slaves working for free & requiring no time off ? I find that to be an odd concept & one thats unacceptable to certain viewpoints (Live free or die). Also the fact that ships dont have escape pobs for the crews means their fate is sealed by the pilots actions.
Someone should right a story about that :D. What if the crew rebels ? Theres just no information on the subject bar one reference.
The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Karl Shade
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Posted - 2006.01.01 02:50:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Karl Shade on 01/01/2006 02:49:55
Hands of the killer was released as a direct response to questions about wether ships have crews or not, if memory serves.
However, yes there could be some more canonical fiction on the topic.
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2006.01.01 03:23:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Silver Night on 01/01/2006 03:24:32
Really I don't know why I don't have this all down in a text file for copy pasting at this point:
The ships have crews, all of them except the very small frigates. Frig crews vary from 1-3 people (the ones with one being just the pod pilot). Cruisers are 200+, Battleships are 2500 or so +. This is all prime fiction, it was on this site a year or two ago, and disappeared in a redesign, but its still accurate if HoaK is anything to go by. If you read the article explaining pods, it also mentions crew, and that they are only greatly reduced, not eliminated by the pod. Consider that a Battleship class vessel is something on the order of a kilometer long, and perhaps a quarter of that in width and hieght on average, so a pre-pod crew could reasonable be a hell of a lot more than a few thousand.
Now, thats all prime fiction. There are no official answers to the rest of your questions, though I think the link in my sig goes to a thread where you could try asking for an official answer (shameless plug 4tw). However the best theories I have heard are, that crews don't have any obvious effects such as pay/escape pods etc because it simply hasn't been put in the game. Most people RP the escape pod thing as being that they don't show on your overview, as they would clutter it up, and the crew pay being basically imaginary at this point.
Have hope however. Some point in the future the crews coming into play and having an effect has actually been mentioned, so ya never know.
And for RP, PF is the bible, so your religion comment is apt. If it comes from CCP is is the Word, and to be considered accurate(incosistances and all).
Edit: I jsut remembered, I think in the database info on all the ships that we ahve access to, there may also be a variable, like CrewNumber or something as well. Soemthing they threw in presumably jsut in case they plan on expanding on the crew's role. Not 100% sure though.
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Silver Night
Director -Production and Science
Have a question about Prime Fiction? Ask here!
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Tasuric Orka
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Posted - 2006.01.01 05:42:00 -
[9]
If they just put pod pilots in ships that could also be crewed that would be a real waste of potential, living quarters and corridors for people, waste/enviromental facility's take up alot of space and power. It seems they did just that, i cant wrap my head around the why..
why not just produce pod-pilot specific ships, they would be smaller, more powerfull and faster then their crewed counterparts...
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2006.01.01 07:02:00 -
[10]
Because a ship needs to be a minimum of frigate sized to have a pod pilot. However to be much bigger, a pod pilot and crew are both required. The number of crew is greatly reduced but not eliminated by the pod. Examples of ships that don't have any crew would be the tier 2 frigates mostly, along with thier tech 2 counterparts I would assume(Unless the tech 2 bits take extra people to run them)
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Silver Night
Director -Production and Science
Have a question about Prime Fiction? Ask here!
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Vendrin
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Posted - 2006.01.01 09:58:00 -
[11]
I would say Caldari, minmater, and gallente use robots as their crew and the amarr use slaves. So there is no reason to worry about escape pods.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.01.01 10:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vendrin
I would say Caldari, minmater, and gallente use robots as their crew and the amarr use slaves. So there is no reason to worry about escape pods.
How does that not contradict Hands of a Killer?
----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:49:00 -
[13]
That ship was an Amarr ship. The number of crews might wary between races. I'd quess that Amarr and Minmatar ships would have rather large crews, while Gallante ships would have many of the crews functions being done by maintenance drones. There woudl still be crew tho, but less since the drones would do most of the repair and maintenace jobs. Not sure about the Caldari ships crews.
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CiaCheCait
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Yeah hes okay but tbh its really more of an official word on the subject as some of the ranting fools on the forum take the Killers Hand as gospel (Religion opiate of the masses).
. . .
Someone should right a story about that :D. What if the crew rebels ? Theres just no information on the subject bar one reference.
More Prime Fiction with reference to crews on board cruisers +. "When religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, opiates become the religion of the masses" ~Somebody whose name I can't remember off the top of my head (soz)
I don't consider myself a ranting fool. However, I find myself hard-pressed to say something is or isn't so when it is explicity stated in a piece of EVE's official fiction. That story wasn't just some ho-hum tale somebody thought up while reading back issues of "Popular Mechanics" while on the john. EVE's fiction gives us who are interested in the every-day dealings of life in the world of EVE a guideline by which to base our own fiction, however "accurate" or "inaccurate" it may be.
Vampire drones, for instance, aren't in game. Does that mean that they cannot exist? Well, when or if they do come out, I wants one  .
There are a few reasons why crew management hasn't been implemented in game (yet?). First off, every character in EVE is a member of an elite caste. Why should we bother with those who aren't as skilled and/or gifted as we are? Life's rough, get used to it. Secondly, and more importantly, in my opinion, do you really want to micro-manage an entire crew? It'd be like virtual pets on steroids. No thanks. I'll let a crew worry about themselves.
If you want a reasonable explanation, crew costs are paid for by taxes (SCC, oh joy) and the cost of the ship itself. While it's not explicitly stated as part of the cost, I'd rather not have to pay weekly to own a larger ship. My assumption is that crew members were folks who graduated from state-sponsored schools (the big twelve), but did not qualify as capsule pilots. There's skill involved, but just not the X-factor that is required to be a pod-pilot.
I'll be adressing this and some of my other theories in the technical essay "The Pod and Her Pilot" that I'm currently in the process of writing. I hope I've shed some light as to why I believe what I believe, and why I think it's a good thing we don't have to deal with crews in-game.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2006.01.01 12:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Discorporation on 01/01/2006 12:56:42
Originally by: BrerLapin
Yeah hes okay but tbh its really more of an official word on the subject as some of the ranting fools on the forum take the Killers Hand as gospel (Religion opiate of the masses).
I wrote HoaK. It's Prime Fiction now and as such Truth. Since I wrote it as taking place about one year and a half year ago, I doubt tech has gotten to the point that all crews are no longer necessary.
Originally by: BrerLapin
Logically a ship doesnt have a crew hence the point in the pod running the ship. If a ship does have a crew they are slaves working for free & requiring no time off ? I find that to be an odd concept & one thats unacceptable to certain viewpoints (Live free or die). Also the fact that ships dont have escape pobs for the crews means their fate is sealed by the pilots actions.
Your crew is payed for by yourself. The game doesn't reflect this because it's horribly complicated and not fun to do. Fiction-wise, all the Pod does is remove the need for a bridge-crew, feeding commands directly into the ship through neural interfaces. The crew that remains takes care of the weapon systems, internal nano-bot factories (for armor and hull repair). It's generally a maintenance crew. I'm not sure on them performing the actions you command, though it seems likley that they do in case CCP introduce crews as a managable aspect of the game.
Originally by: BrerLapin
Someone should right a story about that :D. What if the crew rebels ? Theres just no information on the subject bar one reference.
One?
Read all of this thread, theres pictures of crewed ships and more then one link to crew PF
[Now with MIND BULLETS!]
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BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.01.01 14:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: BrerLapin on 01/01/2006 14:59:45
Karl Marxs I was paraphrasing ¼.¼
Excellent then Id like to know why the Minmatar a slave race are happy to leave a unpaid crew behind to die whilst they gleeful eject their own pod ? AFAIU the Minmatar despise slavery ?
I think crews should be addressed the trouble running a big ship is in fact the crew required, crew casualties would severly undermine a ships performance.
What about crew experience levels ?
It kind of opens a big box o worms tbh.
The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.01.01 17:32:00 -
[17]
The crew might be paid by some sort of ship crew unio that's funded by Concord. Or maybe the insurance includes crew's pay or somehting.
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Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2006.01.01 21:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Edited by: BrerLapin on 01/01/2006 14:59:45
Karl Marxs I was paraphrasing ¼.¼
Excellent then Id like to know why the Minmatar a slave race are happy to leave a unpaid crew behind to die whilst they gleeful eject their own pod ? AFAIU the Minmatar despise slavery ?
I think crews should be addressed the trouble running a big ship is in fact the crew required, crew casualties would severly undermine a ships performance.
What about crew experience levels ?
It kind of opens a big box o worms tbh.
No, not really. Like the above posters said, the crews are for maintinence, not combat or vital/intensive aspects of ship operation. That's what the capsule pilot is for.
And personally, I've yet to read any story where a person in eve uses the restroom, yet I don't assume otherwise. Just because there's no PF that says the crew doesn't get paid doesn't mean they don't. I believe they intentionally leave minute details like this open for players to apply their own perspective on such things for immersion.
Everything doesn't need to be spelled out. 
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.01.02 00:03:00 -
[19]
If anybody still wants to discuss this, please do it HERE
----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
Tsual
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Posted - 2006.01.02 13:24:00 -
[20]
How about posting the "Exchange Rate" POtW from EON issue 1 on the official page?
I guess Zapatero will want to pod me for this suggestion.
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Haanem ulwei, utnazhiram Hal'sha'roh mahiraam Hor'thul.
The Universe is everything, the creation Hal'shah and the destruction Hor'thul.
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Man Upright
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Posted - 2006.01.03 23:03:00 -
[21]
I was around so long ago when the schematics of the most common cruisers, frigs, and battleships were shown on the eve site, along with their size, wieght, and crew.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.04 02:26:00 -
[22]
"I think crews should be addressed the trouble running a big ship is in fact the crew required, crew casualties would severly undermine a ships performance.
What about crew experience levels ?
It kind of opens a big box o worms tbh."
Wasn't there long enough discussion on the subject in the general discussion section, it needs another thread in here out of all places? :/
If i recall right, crew along with crew management was planned as part of game mechanics at launch. It was slated for much later because devs didn't want this to be turned into something extremely simplified ... like crew being some sort of "fuel" that you buy at station, lose in fight and refill after docking again.
They will eventually get around including this part in the game. Until then, just rest assured ships do have crews, but game saves you the whole hassle of actually having to put up with them. For now.
(and the 'they are never mentioned so they aren't there' argument is silly. For what's worth, the game never mentions manhood of your character either. Does it mean some of your body parts in game don't exist? :p
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.01.04 02:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: j0sephine
For what's worth, the game never mentions manhood of your character either. Does it mean some of your body parts in game don't exist? :p
----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
Paul Tibbets
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Posted - 2006.01.27 22:36:00 -
[24]
Dont know if you bought/subscribed to the EON magasine but in issue 2 there is a story tuching on this subject. There are crew revolts against its pod captain and disables his pod so he is left floating in space.
Also at the first fanfest they talked about ''crew modules'' you could hire crew and they would help you in some way.
I my self belive that im not alone on this ship, there are far to many things that can go wrong if you have no humans around. It would only take 1 faulti programming line to leave a MegaT or a Scorp floating around in space.
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Graelyn
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Posted - 2006.01.27 23:00:00 -
[25]
There are people who believe there are not crews in ships.
They are wrong.
They are idiots.
Those who are not perpetually wrong idiots already know the above.
Any questions?
PLEASE no more of these stupid threads.
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Aegis Militia
Fleet Admiral/CEO - The Aeternus Crusade |
Ly'sol
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Posted - 2006.01.27 23:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Graelyn
There are people who believe there are not crews in ships.
They are wrong.
They are idiots.
Those who are not perpetually wrong idiots already know the above.
Any questions?
PLEASE no more of these stupid threads.
Graelyn,
I feel the same as you but you will remember that his inqury is just as valid as the next. He was simply asking questions and clearification. So please dont disrespect people. You know better you ol'grump.
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Tsual
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Posted - 2006.01.28 11:26:00 -
[27]
 Perhaps they should make it a basis for assembling the sip, a player can only assemble a ship if he has the appropriate number of crew in station hangar and if repackaging it the crew would return to the station hangar.
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Tsual - Highly ore adddicted. |
ThaMa Gebir
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Posted - 2006.01.28 12:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Where does it state that ships have crews ?
Bla Bla and other stuff.
Goddammit man I thought Nikolai Nuvolari proved this subject to you ages ago. When are you going to give it a rest pal.
I suggest you shut your cakehole and leave or shut it and play.
Sorry about the flame but this is very much enough now. please mods can we lock this?
__________________________________________
"Hammerhead: Boobies."
LOL |
Jon Engel
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:07:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Jon Engel on 28/01/2006 17:09:30
Edited by: Jon Engel on 28/01/2006 17:09:14
Can we get a dev to answer this once and for all, or do you like us bickering about mundane things like ships crews?
btw, no crews on small ships, I guess you can have a crew or not depending on your style on larger ships.
I dont think frigs or ceptors have crews. Battleships, Cruisers etc would have either crews or drones. Who realy cares? its all relative.
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SpaceDrake Storyteller
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Oh yeah & theirs no crew listing in the stats ;D.
Way, way back in alpha, there used to be. (I should know, I played that client.)
And behold:
Teh Linkage!
Granted, a little under half of the current vessels are on there, and there are a few scaling errors compared to current models (the Raven is quoted as being 920 meters long in the stats but the scale shown on the same picture reveals it's only slightly larger than a Maller ) but it should give you some idea of the crew complements CCP was flinging about before the crew feature was removed from the implementation list early in the beta.
The biggest problem with crew, aside from micromanagement issues, was 0.0 space. There are some half-terraformed worlds out there with people on them, but generally there isn't manpower available out there. Therefore, the 0.0 alliances would still be joined at the hip to Empire space, having to constantly return for crew.
Thus, crew as a game function was removed for the benefit of gameplay. Now alliances can inhabit places like Feythabolis, Venal, and Period Basis without having to worry about constant crew supply runs from Empire. CCP wants to implement crew, it's been on the feature list since the game's inception in 2000, but they need to figure out a way of doing so that won't cripple alliances.
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What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?
Player of the character "Andre Ricard". |
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