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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33272	Posted - 2013.08.26 20:13:00 - [1] - Quote I'm more worried about not knowing which side used the damn Chemical weapons and the stakes ME oil pipeline investors and Russia have conflicting interests in whats possibly the opening stages of a Sharia/Sunni ethnic war. We are probably going to war, and I can't think of a favourable outcome that doesn't involve boots on the ground given the guys fighting are rebels and Al-Quaida versus Assad. This is a Stalin vs ****** war where the West wants to pick "the opposition" where the opposition are not a united front, beneficial to our interests or Humanity or Syria in general. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33276	Posted - 2013.08.26 20:19:00 - [2] - Quote My money is still on Thursday evening, and that this will be more Iraq part 3 with actual chemical weapons being used instead of strongly suspected. All eyes on Israel, Lebanon and Turkey to see the next moves, as British assets are being moved forwards towards Cyprus. Ladies and Gentlemen Britain is gearing up for war. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33278	Posted - 2013.08.26 20:32:00 - [3] - Quote Chemical weapons are classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction, or the poor mans Nuke because it kills indiscriminately. It is not targeted at military assets or troops, it does not enable the capacity to select individual targets. The majority of deaths as I understand it are not from direct combat but from infrastructure and societal collapse, disease ect. These weapons kill, but they are being shot in an urban environment, implying reckless risk to civilians or a simple disregard or even it being the intend to target civilians. If Assad is desperate enough to use them, this could work as these weapons are a step above rockets and bombs, if as Russia and Assad claim that these are stolen weapons form Syrian stockpiles (plausible given the military defections and general anarchy) then this is an attempt like 9/11 to draw outside forces in to do what they cannot achieve : defeat Assad. Noone on the ground in Syria is clean and smells like roses, and the Rebels have people like this as leaders, and do not remove or discipline them then what does that say about them? There is more to interer Muslim relations at play here than I think you realise. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33280	Posted - 2013.08.26 20:47:00 - [4] - Quote We gave us a moral right and obligation, under the charter of the United Nations of which Britain underwrites by trade, diplomacy and when necessary force of arms. Whether you agree with it or not, its there on the books as one of the 5 permanent members of the UN Security council, and we have a duty to consider the possibilities to restore law and order should it be necessary. Pretty certain we tried other ways of resolving it over the last 2 years of Civil war before WMD's started turning up being used in the urban centres. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33281	Posted - 2013.08.26 20:57:00 - [5] - Quote Keep in mind the Anglo perspective on the law, that it is the guide to determine legality through the courts after they are accused of being broken. We see the obligation to uphold, and damn the consequences to defend ourselves in the aftermath. We are breaking the law if we do act, and if we do not act simultaneously. The reason it is illegal is because China and Russia do not agree to it, but a majority of 3 to 5 agree it is necessary. Additionally, to reduce it to economics is is to Russias benefit for Syria to be a warzone in the center of the ME as it increases the cost of Hydrocarbons in Europe, expensive through Suez leads to price gouging to keep Gazprom profitably propping up the Rubel and Russian economies. I do however see the merit to leaving them alone to kill each other off as its none of our direct concern, after all what's a few hundred thousand lives to the moral superiority of the West.... We aren't at war yet, and war is an extension of diplomacy at the end of the day. We prove we are commited to ending this and have the firepower and fortitude to carry it out and more than a few heads will turn inside Syria. This may end up being Cyprus being an unsinkable Battleship sitting off of Syria to open negotiations, a small hope but a good one none theless. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33282	Posted - 2013.08.26 21:17:00 - [6] - Quote A very interesting talk it will be, but tomorrow the powerplants will burn coal and gas, the cars, ambulances and the military will use Petrol. So far we've backed off, and I'm honestly alright with seeing how this plays out internally, were it not for the issue of it being a breeding ground for radicalisation. We have a pool of battle hardened young men being armed, ideologically charged based on ethnic supremacy, denouncing other sects of Islam as not true Muslims and reducing them to animals for slaughter. Today they are fighting each other in Syria, yesteryear they were in Afghanistan. Hence the issue thats being planned isn't just Syria, its how to put the various sects of Islam in the ME back into a cold war scenario. ****** kept the peace relative to the Western occupation through fear of the consequences, as did Assad, who is actually the more secular of the factions. I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around... Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33282	Posted - 2013.08.26 21:22:00 - [7] - Quote Caleidascope wrote: Kirjava wrote: I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around... Sounds suspiciously like Libya. Pretty much. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33285	Posted - 2013.08.26 21:33:00 - [8] - Quote Jayem See wrote: I am deliberately avoiding talking about religion of any kind - it isn't really truly relevant. Anyone with true religion would not council this fight. This is religious, any attempt to filter out religion from this will fail. There is a schism in Islam into Sunni and Shiite as the main branches, Sunni being the kind in Saudi, Egypt ect, Shiite being that of Syria and Iran, note Irans involvement based on common religion. Also the Syrians and the Israeli's are largely the same ethnic group, just onje side is Jewish and the other is Shiite Islam. Jayem See wrote: Do you not genuinely believe that eventually we can sort it out? With or without embracing policies last seen in the New Imperial Era? Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: The danger is all this spreading to nearby Pakistan and thus across India. Than the Chinese move in there and it's all over with at that point. I like to believe that these kinds of low lying fruit WW3 opening stage events are already well planned for on all sides to avoid it, it might be naive but Mutually Assured Destruction and whatnot. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33285	Posted - 2013.08.26 21:42:00 - [9] - Quote Noone wants war, its about the most extreme thing we can do bar firing the Nukes off for a decapitation strike. It happens when nothing else works, where sides misjudge each others intentions and resilience, and irreconcilable positions clash. In this case, we the West are opposed to civilian massacres by any faction as an intention for political purposes. Assad is either trying to break the back of the opposition through demonstration of what he is prepared to do to underwrite it, or the Opposition are desperate enough to do it themselves to drag in someone who can take him out and leave a shattered nation for them to conquer. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33289	Posted - 2013.08.26 22:21:00 - [10] - Quote Jayem See wrote: What right does the West have to imply the use of MWD. Anyone that develops them has the ultimate FAIL that mutual destruction is assured. So by all means do it. Nobody is going to win. As if we truly matter. This beautiful planet will carry on without our stupid ass. The funny thing is the posturing that makes one race feel better than another. Honestly, we wrote most of international law and chose to bring in other nations as equals and decolonise, the UN was built because thats what the Superpowers in the immediate aftermath of WW2 desired. If it wasn't then it wouldn't be there, along with international law. How hard would it have been for say the Western Allies to conquer the world in Operation Unthinkable, incorporating the Wermarcht into the Allied forces and assaulting the USSR under nuclear bombardment. That's what we avoided, it might be the most arrogant thing the west can say, but its true that at that point nothing came close, with the US being the lone nuclear power, Britain having only its side of collaboration in the Manhattan project and the Soviets pouring over theoretical papers. Hence the current arrangement of those Nuclear Superpowers eyeing each other as equals that could cut deals with each other to avoid actually using the Arsenals that maintained their power, and keeping the club exclusive to avoid an unstable nation (ie Pakistan) gaining the fire-power to disrupt the peace. There was absolutely nothing fair about this, it was power politics on a global scale to avoid large scale warfare and history has proved that its been the most effective enforcer of the Industrial age, Europe since the collapse of the Roman Empire. Peace is on the one side, fairness on the other, and human nature permeating the whole thing, which chose peace. And if the planet is going to carry on regardless of our existence, I would much prefer humanities demise far, far in the future and steps taken to ensure that. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!

Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33289	Posted - 2013.08.26 22:42:00 - [11] - Quote Thing is, now the cats out of the bag with WMD's invasion going up highly in probability, what's going to stop Assad deciding that if he loses the war he will get dealt with like ******, and Qaddaffi. He probably doesn't see himself like that, but knows that the West does. He has WMD's, and Israel is sitting right there, if Grimpak you are looking at a spark for this to escalate then that would be what I would be worried about. But keep in mind I'm just speculating and rationalising what I know about the area into current events, hindsight will show how close to the mark any of it is really. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33291	Posted - 2013.08.27 00:16:00 - [12] - Quote Civilians lining up for gas masks in Israel now, siege mentality incoming. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33322	Posted - 2013.08.27 02:56:00 - [13] - Quote Called it. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33467	Posted - 2013.08.27 14:14:00 - [14] - Quote I would disagree that Syria has nothing to do with fossil fuels, given that it ispart of a proposed route for natural gas from Qatar/SA to Europe. Given that this would lower prices and increase volume in line with the EU intent to diversify awayy from Russian gas I would think this plays a part in Russias position. I dont think most people want a war but its obvious we feel we need to do something here, and I'm not sure that the WMDs weren't fired for the purpose of dragging outside part ies into the war. Given how Obama said it was the red line, he has to do something or the US is shown as a paper tiger, much how Russia is generally seen but on a larger scale, strongest of the Great Powers as opposed to the Lone Superpower. If we genuinely want to solve this and start this week, it nessesitates a ground campaign and occupation. Standoff bombardment like in Libya would crush Assasd and strengthen the rebels relatively and I would be disgusted by NATO if thats the plan. Take out the anti air and the known WMD depots, though a smart move would be to keep them kobile at this point. If SA wants Syria fixed beyond that then it would need to commit its own forces. We already know throuh the cable leaks that they lean heavily on the US to strike at Iran, so they are not some innocents pulled into this. This could in a worst case be the big one that kicks off the Arab/Persian war again like the Iran/Iraq war if this is mismanaged, and something is going on in the background to distort logic to the current conclusions. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33467	Posted - 2013.08.27 14:22:00 - [15] - Quote Aye but we have the bases on Cyprus, well within strike range of the RAF. Hopefully reactivating units wont be so tricky as much of the cuts havent bitten yet and need only scrap them, offer reinstatement and bring assets out of mothballs. Worst thing is the lack of Harriers, we've been caught with our trousers down, now we pay the price and hopefully rearm, ditching the JSF in favour of Navalised Typhoons or whatever we can operate as a stopgap. We cant rely on Trident as our insurance policy all the time. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33469	Posted - 2013.08.27 14:32:00 - [16] - Quote Graygor wrote: Boots on the ground would result in a 3 way clustershag between NATO forces, Assads armies and those moderate freedom loving rebels who are in no way linked to any terrorist groups, no sir. Last time something like that happened that i can think of is maybe WW1 with Lawrence stirring up the arab tribes that started this whole bloody mess to begin with. Which is a terrifying proposition that I hope we do not do, but the rhetoric about ending Assads regime leads to a 3 way ground campaign or societal collapse with warlords vieing for the spoils over the ruins. Given time Assad would win, which is why then Chemical weapons usage, especially after Israel has selectively bombed suspected ammo dumpz en route to Hezbollah shows they are watching and prepared to sortie. Im sitting in the "they can't seriously mean they wa t to do this" camp but have a sense of dread that they might actually do it. And it would have been unessacary to even come this far if someone e hadn't called it a red line that would inevitability be crossed. It is madness. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!
Kirjava Lothian Enterprises 33483	Posted - 2013.08.27 14:39:00 - [17] - Quote Falklands war did wonders for the Navy, demanding upgrades, new battleplans and strategic assets. I suppose even if we dont see action in this war it will be readily apparent we are not ready. Who am I kidding, peoples lesson learned will be that we should disarm further as we "don't have an Empire anymore" instead of investment, excercises because as we all know, noone wants to attack us and the Cold War which the west started is over so no consequences because we said so. / Guardian and talking with my hippy mother fueled rant Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede!

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