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DetaurusisGod
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Posted - 2006.01.05 07:06:00 -
[31]
All of my accounts will be cancelled when nos is touched
do not even 'improve' it
Missiles were not improved
drones were not improved
ECM was not improved
nerf nerf nerf
this game is becoming ridiculous
and people that jump battleships feel it is their right to tackle or run as they wish
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NurAbSal
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Posted - 2006.01.05 07:47:00 -
[32]
I am not bs pilot, i am HAC pilot... I started my post like this to be sure everyone understand, that i am the victim of heavy nosf when i attack battleship, not the user of heavy nosf...
And i think nosf is fine - smaller ships have good defence for it - their nosf... Smaller nosf has shorter cycle than large nosf, and small ships arent so defenceless against this weapon... My zealot was nosfed to death many times, before i just fitted nos myself... now i am fine - cant run everything onboard with ease, but at least my guns keeps firing = i have chance of survival in the fight against bs...
I use bss only for ratting and fleet ops, so i rarely fit nosf... But i think fighting bigger ship in my hac wouldnt be so interesting if bigger ship isnt equipped with nosf - smaller ship with enough dps to break bs tank would be always be a winner (correct me if i am wrong - the only viable bs defences against smaller targets are nosf, drones and smaller guns)... When attacking bs with nosf i can feel i attack bigger, more dangerous ship - if nosf is nerfed it would be just attacking big piece of metal - slow, fragile - not much fun, when it cant defend itself efficiently...
Please dont flame me - i am still unexperienced in pvp - for my 2 years in eve i am doing pvp for about 9-10 months and i fly only one race - amarr, but i dont think that considering ammount of skirmishes i participated in there is something about heavy nosf what we call "overpowered"...
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.05 07:51:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
of BSes while they take 5 damage from torps
BZZZZZZZZZZZZT.
75+ damage from prescision, and prescision CRUISE is a 2-volley kill.
Want to be wrong again?
inability to detect sarcasm ftl...
And a normal t1 torp from a 900k rat did 5.1 damage to my Harpy a few days ago.
Besides, not everyone carries around a ready supply of the only decent t2 missile availible, and you should know comparing t1 to t2 is hardly fair, that's like comparing t2 SBs to Gistii ones.
Please, no political remarks. - Laqum
Being a forum mod should require knowing what poltical satire is before nerfing sigs. |
Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2006.01.05 08:22:00 -
[34]
people won't be happy til battleships can only effectively use mining lasers and drones.
The people who think RMR is cool are coincidently the same people who paid to see Gili.
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Dark PIne
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Posted - 2006.01.05 08:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
Heavy Nosferatu vs Frigate only sucks 1/3 of it's original suckage.
Heavy Nosferatu vs Cruiser only sucks 2/3 of it's original suckage.
Heavy Nosferatu vs Battleship sucks 3/3 of it's original suckage.
Medium Nosferatu vs Frigate only sucks 2/3 of it's original suckage.
Medium Nosferatu vs Cruiser sucks 3/3 of it's original suckage.
Medium Nosferatu vs Battleship sucks 3/3 of it's original suckage.
Small Nosferatu vs All sucks 3/3 of it's original suckage.
How about if we introduce randomness into this proposal:
The values you proposed would be absolute minimum cap sucked values, but bigger class nosses would have a chance to suck cap up to their max potential:
Heavy Nosferatu vs Frigate has a 33% chance to suck full original suckage.
Heavy Nosferatu vs Cruiser has a 66% chance to suck full original suckage.
Heavy Nosferatu vs Battleship has a 99% chance to suck full original suckage.
Or something calculated according to sig radius.
The point I'm trying to make is that the amount of cap sucked is not a static amount calculated directly from sig radius/ship class, but a variable. A ship with smaller sig radius has a better chance to evade most of the heavy nos effects, but heavy nos would have the potential of sucking for full max capacity even from small ships. And this also would give a small chance of failure (1%) when nos is used against its intended ship class.
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SeeD IX
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Posted - 2006.01.05 09:01:00 -
[36]
dont nerf them because everthing else has been? no. Why should nos be the only thing that has no penalty for being bigger? L nos are meant for battleship size suckage.
Its like saying L size turrets should hit frigs for full damage. (there are obviously problems with that because then the end all best weapon would be the largest one). ECM mods dont fall into this problem because its power doesnt change by size.
Just give em a slight penalty. they should still own frigates. its just that the everything else with similar size logic follows the same penalty pattern... why not nos
Originally by: Ikvar
The Vengeance NEEDS to be nerfed. It's ability to die FAR outclasses ANY OTHER SHIP IN THE GAME! One time, I engaged one and it went down in seconds, any other AF that can do that? Not r |
Callistus
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Posted - 2006.01.05 09:07:00 -
[37]
It can't be more than a month ago, when frig fleets were flavour of the month, that the forums were filled with people whining that they couldn't take out frigs with their battleship. In these threads people with any sense pointed out that all you needed to completely incapacitate a frigate was a heavy nos. Yet still people whined that this wasn't good enough and that their missiles/turrets should wtfpwn frigs.
Fast-forward and now people want to nerf nos because they're TOO powerful vs smaller targets! I wish people would think about what they're posting instead of just jumping on the latest forum-bandwagon and crying nerf all the time.
Coreli Corporation Mainframe
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SeeD IX
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Posted - 2006.01.05 09:22:00 -
[38]
true, but this seems to be how eve develops over time..
balance balance balance. modules are changed, new ship classes are introduced to counter problem X and create new problem Y, module A is changed to counter problem Y. whine whine whine ship Z is introduced to counter problem Y. etc
I think its just how games like eve have to go on as CCP adds a whole lot of content instead of introducing a single flawless ship thats not capable of being whined about.
Originally by: Ikvar
The Vengeance NEEDS to be nerfed. It's ability to die FAR outclasses ANY OTHER SHIP IN THE GAME! One time, I engaged one and it went down in seconds, any other AF that can do that? Not r |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.01.05 09:48:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Aloysius Knight on 05/01/2006 09:49:39
Edited by: Aloysius Knight on 05/01/2006 09:49:04
well if you want a reduction in the ablilty of bs to pawn frigs and other small ships i want the same, i take less damg from frigs and crusers for the trade off of lossing most of my offensive weapons aganst smaller ships
oh and before you go nerfing nos the typhoon MUST be looked at and fixed, because you nerf nos the typhoon will end up bugged and not worth flying
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2006.01.05 09:53:00 -
[40]
/me pokes hanns > nos are fine, silly.. ;>
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Demon Johnson
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Posted - 2006.01.05 09:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: DetaurusisGod
All of my accounts will be cancelled when nos is touched
do not even 'improve' it
Missiles were not improved
drones were not improved
ECM was not improved
nerf nerf nerf
this game is becoming ridiculous
and people that jump battleships feel it is their right to tackle or run as they wish
The game became a gankfest, lots of ways to increase damage versus everything, without boosting defences. Besides: The first thing beeing "nerfed" were turrets (sig, tracking), not missles (something caldari pilots whining about missle nerf like to oversee).
I want a game where you can use tactics, and not a choice between "fit as many damage mods as possible and gank" or "fit as many hardeners as you can and tank".
And yes, I hope NOSs will be touched (bye?) and their effectivity beeing dependent on the sig radius of the target.
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Hectaire Glade
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Posted - 2006.01.05 10:04:00 -
[42]
I do wish the 3-4 people who are stoking the 'Nerf NOS' fire would find another topic, its becomming boring, all this alt posting and circular arguing is making the board a dull place.
If the devs want to change them, they will, and it won't be based on the volume of repetative, idiotic posts made by the same 3-4 people + alts.
Let. It. Die.
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.01.05 10:27:00 -
[43]
To Hanns (I belvieve that was the name):
DO NOT MIX NOS AND NEUT !!! They are two completely different things. Neuts have a large CAP usage compared to nos.
Counter NOS ? fit NOS yourself, it has 0 cap use, you get some cap back at least to warp away or cycle AB/MWD to get away (small nos has faster cycle than heavy nos).
To the OP:
I did not check the item database, but I think heavy nos has the most range and small nos the least right ? Well my idea is to invert this. A heavy nos will have the least range (disruptor range), small nos the most range. keep all other things as is.
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well ... |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2006.01.05 10:33:00 -
[44]
CCP should nerf all Nos modules so that they are 18% less effective. They should then change the skill so that it actually does something - namely increase the transfer amount by 5% per level.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.01.05 10:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
CCP should nerf all Nos modules so that they are 18% less effective. They should then change the skill so that it actually does something - namely increase the transfer amount by 5% per level.
Would be fine with me lol, atleast would have a point to training it up to 4/5 for tech2 flavors...
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Dark PIne
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Posted - 2006.01.05 10:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
I do wish the 3-4 people who are stoking the 'Nerf NOS' fire would find another topic, its becomming boring, all this alt posting and circular arguing is making the board a dull place.
If the devs want to change them, they will, and it won't be based on the volume of repetative, idiotic posts made by the same 3-4 people + alts.
Let. It. Die.
At least it is a refreshing change to the neverending stream of "nerf Raven" posts
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Stratosfear
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Posted - 2006.01.05 10:43:00 -
[47]
It's Monday/Wednesday/Friday for "nerf Raven, teh Revean is the n00ber pwnmobile, pwn buttoner, W1n ship OMG"
Thursdays is reserved for "OMG NOS overpwred, nerfem or I quits"
Tuesdays you ask? "T2 ammo hAX? precision torps pwned me and I quit"
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Dark PIne
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Posted - 2006.01.05 10:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
I did not check the item database, but I think heavy nos has the most range and small nos the least right ? Well my idea is to invert this. A heavy nos will have the least range (disruptor range), small nos the most range. keep all other things as is.
How about changing one damage bonus of interceptors to +10% scrambler range per level? That way interceptors (taclers) could scramble ships from 30km range with max skills.
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Macro Media
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Posted - 2006.01.05 11:12:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Macro Media on 05/01/2006 11:13:38
Typical gang battle for example. Image 2 teams with
1 Inty
1 Af
2 Cruisers
1 BS
Ok What would happen is if the BS puts on Something stupid like Pure uber tank, supported by 8 Heavy Nos, he can
3 Nos the enemy BS
1 Nos the AF
1 Nos on each cruiser
1 Nos on Inty.
Spare Nos for whatever is pirority.
And if this is a geddon with, say, 6 or 7 Passive t2 Adaptives and rest Large reps, then guess what, The others dont stand a chance.
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Criminal EVE Guides
Evil Genius 101 Guide |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.01.05 11:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Macro Media
Typical gang battle for example. Image 2 teams with
1 Inty
1 Af
2 Cruisers
1 BS
Ok What would happen is if the BS puts on Something stupid like Pure uber tank, supported by 8 Heavy Nos, he can
3 Nos the enemy BS
1 Nos the AF
2 Nos on each cruiser
1 Nos on Inty.
And if this is a geddon with, say, 6 or 7 Passive t2 Adaptives and rest Large reps, then guess what, The others dont stand a chance.
That last sentence should read.... The others will laugh their ass of, cause they're not gettin any damage on them.... if you lose with that team against a couple of heavy nossies..... you suck. plain and simple.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
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Macro Media
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Posted - 2006.01.05 11:19:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Macro Media on 05/01/2006 11:20:37
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Macro Media
Typical gang battle for example. Image 2 teams with
1 Inty
1 Af
2 Cruisers
1 BS
Ok What would happen is if the BS puts on Something stupid like Pure uber tank, supported by 8 Heavy Nos, he can
3 Nos the enemy BS
1 Nos the AF
2 Nos on each cruiser
1 Nos on Inty.
And if this is a geddon with, say, 6 or 7 Passive t2 Adaptives and rest Large reps, then guess what, The others dont stand a chance.
That last sentence should read.... The others will laugh their ass of, cause they're not gettin any damage on them.... if you lose with that team against a couple of heavy nossies..... you suck. plain and simple.
Erm. The BS would Suck the entire team dry, when the rest of the Gang can freely engage. Remember I said 2 equal teams.
EDIT: YOu could also do this with a 2 BS team. 1 BS with Uber Nos/Tanker and One with a super Sniper Setup. if oyu fleet tactics are not brain dead, you can never get in range of the sniper without getting in range of the Noser
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Criminal EVE Guides
Evil Genius 101 Guide |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.01.05 11:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Gariuys on 05/01/2006 11:24:42
And wth is your entire team doing inside 20km of that turretless armageddon?
Warp out, get covert ops, feck up sniper, go home happy.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Jessica Afk
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Posted - 2006.01.05 11:33:00 -
[53]
Drones. Smartbombs. T2 Ammo. Small Guns. Rocket/Light Launchers. I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to kill frigates besides NOS. BS pilots will try many things to kill smaller ships, they change their gameplay in accordance with the potential threat. Find away to kill the BS other then abusing ship radius and speed. 4 - 5 Inty's should never be able to take on a BS, only tackle it. I-N-T-E-R-C-E-P-T-O-R! Not untouchable engine of destruction. As is, some HAC pilots have already modified their ships to operate outside of a 21km range (Heavy NOS optimum). They just pay a little extra to buy the 30km warp scrambler.
Don't change NOS! |
Spaced Skunk
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Posted - 2006.01.05 11:42:00 -
[54]
I use nosferatu on most of my PVP setups, and I take away firepower in order to use it. Have any of you who complain ever thought about trying to evade it?
Its not overpowered and they do take a lot of powercore and CPU. As most people say 'cap is life', nos/neuts remove cap, effectivly it is a valid weapon, and yes, there is a counter-weapon, and that is fit nosferatu on your ship.
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Tsual
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Posted - 2006.01.05 12:33:00 -
[55]
Its fascinating how enthusiastically some people run into fire and brimstone ridden threads ...
The problem:
Heavy nos can suck between 21km and 25.5km which is far more then of most small turret ranges.(So nothing with
They suck frigat capacitors dry very fast.
Existing defence to nos is counter nossing or cap booster.(Woha that makes already two besides the obvious "keep away, keep away" or a logistic at your side who recharges your capacitor giving you even four options.)
Suggestions I've read of so far:
1) nos get's cap penality like mwd
2) cap suckage depending on signature of ship to yet to be introduced signature resolution of nos.
3) "random generator" setting minimal cap that is left after nosattack depending on signature to (yet to be introduced) signature resolugion of nos.
4) deactivate nos if ship is succed dry
And I'm sure someone has already posted something about 5) a nos shielding module for capacitor (protecting a certain amount of cap or decreasing the energy transfer ammount of the nos)
There is still something left like: ship has a "fixed maximum of external capacitor energy extraction ammount" - sounds very scientifically but is nothing other then how many more nos you applie at a ship you won't extract more the for example 40 cap per specific cycle from a frigat.
Ok so much on the topic and now flame on, set the forum ablaze.
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Haanem ulwei, utnazhiram Hal'sha'roh mahiraam Hor'thul.
The Universe is everything, the creation Hal'shah and the destruction Hor'thul.
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Kharak'khan
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Posted - 2006.01.05 12:46:00 -
[56]
Why do people gripe about bloody changing everything, Nos is fine why change it i fly a nos setup BS but it dosnt win all fights, cruisers circle out of range and can still pound you along with BC and BS and hacs, the only ones that have a hard job are frigs and if they swarm you in numbers hvy nos aint going to save you. Battleships already have numerous faults like lock times etc! And if a Dreadnought flew up to me with an XL Nos and webbed and then destroyed me fair enough! You should pick your fights or run when it goes bad!
Dont gripe about stuff next the carebears will be after sentries in 0.0 ! Eve slowly becoming a nanny state 
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Victor Windam
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Posted - 2006.01.05 12:59:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Wrayeth
God, I'm sick of people whining because their lone frig can't tackle and kill a ship 500 times as expensive (or only ten times, in the case of interceptors and AF).
I've been thinking a bit more on the money issue;
Isn't it much easier to gain money with a Battleship as well? The bigger your enemy, the more he's worth.
So if you are an interceptor pilot, let's assume it takes you 5 days (theoretically) to get money enough again to buy your craft, using a spare interceptor.
Now if you are a battleship player, it takes you around the same amount of time, since you can make more money with it in the same time.
So if you spend the same amount of time to get an interceptor as a battleship (only it requires different skills, a different carreer choice), it shouldn't be too odd to be able to deal serious damage to a battleship with an elite frigate.
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Auman
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Posted - 2006.01.05 12:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tsual
Its fascinating how enthusiastically some people run into fire and brimstone ridden threads ...
The problem:
Heavy nos can suck between 21km and 25.5km which is far more then of most small turret ranges.(So nothing with
They suck frigat capacitors dry very fast.
Existing defence to nos is counter nossing or cap booster.(Woha that makes already two besides the obvious "keep away, keep away" or a logistic at your side who recharges your capacitor giving you even four options.)
I haven't seen anyone explain yet why any of those are actual problems. Could you suggest a few in game examples of what "overpowered" nos are doing they shouldn't be?
Regardless of how nos could be nerfed the point is to provide an end result which seems to be making it easier for small ships to attack largers ones. I don't believe the small ships need any help.
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Yarek Balear
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Posted - 2006.01.05 13:03:00 -
[59]
Don't understand what the problem is here... To fit a NOS on a BS (or any ship) you have to reduce your damage capability as it uses a high slot. While powerful within their range, this range is limited, so all you need to do to counter that module is stay outside its range and they're wasting a valuable high slot.
People who think that it's unfair that a BS can kill a frigate need to go play another game (Rock/Paper/Scissors?). This isn't star wars where a lone frigate destroys an entire starbase and shouldn't ever be imo. If they got their way they'd presumably start moaning that their inty can't solo a HAC and if you extrapolate that out they'll only be happy when there is only one ship type in the game and everyone has the same fitting... Yawn...
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Kharak'khan
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Posted - 2006.01.05 13:05:00 -
[60]
Victor that is the worst reply ive ever read, Its nothing to do with costings.
Its all about people who cant cope when a BS trashes there Frig class vessel by supposedly unfairly draining it. The problem is a large proportion of people who dont like it are carebears and new charecters who float into low sec and get killed by a pirate BS. Or Hac pilots who feel hard done by when there precious get sucked dry and leathered! 
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