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Sabriz Adoudel
Oppan Ganknam Style
742
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Posted - 2013.09.04 11:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
There's more mining bots than market bots, so I'd rather see this for mining.
Miner euthanization expert. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. |
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
31
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Posted - 2013.09.04 11:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
When I'm online, it happens to me to change some orders every 5 minutes if the others do the same. I call it "market pvp" 
With some insense you can sometimes fool people. With bots it is even easier ... |
TheBlueMonkey
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
517
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Posted - 2013.09.04 11:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Where's your proof that people are using market bots?
I'm not saying that they're not, just that you assumption that "I change order and then someone else changes an order straight away, thus bots" is a little speculative.
What items are you selling?
Do you realise how many people play the market game?
Do you realise how many orders some people have?
The idea that people "hop on and change their orders in 5min twice a day" is comical. I have some accounts, each with some characters all of whom can place some orders.
Does that make me a bot or just someone who spends a lot of time on the market? |
Tivook OneManSlave
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.09.04 11:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:Where's your proof that people are using market bots?
I'm not saying that they're not, just that you assumption that "I change order and then someone else changes an order straight away, thus bots" is a little speculative.
What items are you selling?
Do you realise how many people play the market game?
Do you realise how many orders some people have?
The idea that people "hop on and change their orders in 5min twice a day" is comical. I have some accounts, each with some characters all of whom can place some orders.
Does that make me a bot or just someone who spends a lot of time on the market?
Logic would tell you that, of course, not everybody is a bot but please do explain what type of human being is able to be online 24/7?
What I'm selling is none of your business. The fact that certain individuals tend to be able to play the market game 24/7 is more than enough evidence to make me concerned. |
Dave Stark
3553
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Posted - 2013.09.04 11:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
i'll be honest. when i click ok i expect my action to be carried out. not asked to type an illegable collection of letters and numbers in to a box. |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
101
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Posted - 2013.09.04 12:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:Logic would tell you that, of course, not everybody is a bot but please do explain what type of human being is able to be online 24/7?
How you can say they are online 24/7? Or is this "this guy was mining 8 hours ago here and now I log in and he is still here!" case? You can't know they are online 24/7 if you don't do same. So does this tell more about you than "problem" itself?
Quote:What I'm selling is none of your business. The fact that certain individuals tend to be able to play the market game 24/7 is more than enough evidence to make me concerned.
Problem with your captcha idea is that bots can already read them and they are more effective at it than humans. Of course they can be made even more difficult to read but it only makes it more difficult to normal humans. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
860
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Posted - 2013.09.04 12:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tivook OneManSlave wrote:
This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.
The only way that you can know that he is there 24/7 is if you too are there 24/7. Therefore, if he is a bot, then so are you. |
Tivook OneManSlave
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.09.04 14:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Tivook OneManSlave wrote:
This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.
The only way that you can know that he is there 24/7 is if you too are there 24/7. Therefore, if he is a bot, then so are you.
You fail at logic thinking.
"If a machine is working in a factory 24/7 and you visit that machine 5 times a day that means you're also a machine.". |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Ex Cinere Scriptor
2649
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
No idea why the obvious solution is not being discussed.
Automate the price dropping feature for EVERYONE.
Allow the player to set a minimum value, below which the system will not operate.
Have a starting value, which the system will automatically climb towards if no competition exists.
Being AFK, it can compete with any other "automated" play very effectively.
Live players can take advantage of the entire system quite easily too, if they are clever.
(Bob wants to sell Item X for XX ISK. He will buy more stock for resale at another location if his competition drops below a certain price, so he wins either way. If he depletes his competitors stock, then he sets the prices here, as well as has inventory for other location)
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
896
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Posted - 2013.09.04 15:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Why not just remove the lowest-order-gets-the-sale feature? |
Tim Ryder
Bloomingdale Industries Inc
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
I'd guess that removing the lower 100 ISK fee for changing an order, requiring you to pay broker fees, would put quite the damper on the issue too. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Ex Cinere Scriptor
2649
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Why not just remove the lowest-order-gets-the-sale feature?
Assuming you are not being funny here, I may be silly to do this.
So, you don't want players to be able to compare pricing?
The choice of who to buy from is arbitrary, it just happens to match the lowest offered price frequently.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Chronos Astre
The Enclave of the Nexus
12
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Posted - 2013.09.04 16:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
I don't do market orders, so this would not impact me in any way.
I do think, however, that questions asked plainly would be WAY better than captcha. A random choice of: how many people are in local, what system are you in, who is placing this order, and a few others would be infinitely more legible and less infuriating than captcha.
I did just today find out that if I don't want to support the .01ers, I have no way of giving my sale to the higher price, as it just pays the seller at the lowest price the higher figure instead. This upsets me as a buyer, and though I understand the reason (if you can choose who to buy from at a specific price, it's a means of transfering money to anyone able to place a sell order, including a trial account), it would seem to me the solution to that problem would be to prevent trial accounts from placing sell orders, and letting us pick if we want to pay the higher price. |
Simc0m
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
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Posted - 2013.09.04 17:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
+1
"What's the only named system in syndicate?" |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15509
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 01:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:And on week later, when all the market bots have been patched, you're left with thousands of players who get pissed off by the bloody things.
Bots are better at captcha than humans are. All putting the things in would do is drive players out, while the bots just kept on going.
As for the questions, tell me. What language would they be in? And what about the players who don't speak them? We have Russian, German and Japanese clients, but what about the French? the Spanish? The Hungarians, Polish, Koreans, and whoever the hell else plays?
tl:dr, biomass yourself. QFT
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Andracin
Sickology
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 03:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
There are people who use bots. Hell you can even go to youtube and watch demos of people using bots. That being said there are many many more who are not botting. Jita has how many people on? Rarely less than 2000, and even if only half that are doing market manipulation on high-turn over items (like all the noob tutorials convientiently tell them to) your going to see undercutting on everything.
I moved on to Hek and Rens and some of my orders on my market alt don't get undercut for days, I recently had one that I didn't have to change for a week and a half and it was a high-turn over item. If you don't like being 0.01 ISK'd try a diffrent market. You will proably see your % of profit go up as well. |
Dolph Carebear
Adohivatal
34
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Posted - 2013.09.05 08:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:No idea why the obvious solution is not being discussed.
Automate the price dropping feature for EVERYONE.
Allow the player to set a minimum value, below which the system will not operate.
Have a starting value, which the system will automatically climb towards if no competition exists.
Being AFK, it can compete with any other "automated" play very effectively.
Live players can take advantage of the entire system quite easily too, if they are clever.
(Bob wants to sell Item X for XX ISK. He will buy more stock for resale at another location if his competition drops below a certain price, so he wins either way. If he depletes his competitors stock, then he sets the prices here, as well as has inventory for other location)
Over 9,000 times this.
Limit orders. Sort of how the real markets work.
http://www.sec.gov/answers/limit.htm
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