Hello there.

I think there's a problem on the market in EVE, and that problem is that some individuals are using bots in order to undercut their competition.

I have dozens of sell orders active, some have lots of competition some doesn't have any but what I've noticed is that some individuals are able to undercut the competition by 0.01 isk no matter what time it is.

It's literally 24/7, within minutes of me changing my order too.

Now, of course we could buy 1 unit of whatever the competition is selling and report them for suspicious behaviour but we all know how much work goes into actually banning a farmer or bot in this game. It's literally impossible and I've seen dozens of threads on bots not getting banned even though the evidence was super obvious and overwhelming.

What I propose is a very easy quick fix to the problem. How about being required to enter a captcha code if you change your market orders too many times in one hour?

Doesn't have to be captcha, could be questions like: how many people are in local? What system are you in?

Whatever, this would put a swift end to most of the market bot problems that plagues this game today.

I would not mind having to input a code if I change my market orders 20-30 times in one hour at all, I reckon the only people who will mind are the ones who are cheating.

TL;DR

Install a type of captcha code mechanism that forces you to input a code if you change your market orders too often.

This actually would solve the problem and still not be too annoying for the real people playing market wars. +1

I'm just worried how long would it take for the bot softwares to evolve and understand those questions or captcha...

You have dozens of orders? I have hundreds. And I definitely do not want captcha. The market interface is awful enough as it is.

And on week later, when all the market bots have been patched, you're left with thousands of players who get pissed off by the bloody things.

Bots are better at captcha than humans are. All putting the things in would do is drive players out, while the bots just kept on going.

As for the questions, tell me. What language would they be in? And what about the players who don't speak them? We have Russian, German and Japanese clients, but what about the French? the Spanish? The Hungarians, Polish, Koreans, and whoever the hell else plays?

tl:dr, biomass yourself.

Knowing what I know about the EVE community it's safe to say we're not stupid. If you actually think people would have great trouble understanding how to input a captcha code or something similar not only are you incredibly stupid but you should biomass yourself instead because foolish people should not be allowed to mate for the good of humanity.

Knowing what I know about the EVE community it's safe to say we're not stupid. If you actually think people would have great trouble understanding how to input a captcha code or something similar not only are you incredibly stupid but you should biomass yourself instead because foolish people should not be allowed to mate for the good of humanity.

KILL IT BEFORE IT LAYS EGGS etc.

Also, do you really think it's THAT easy to fool captcha? It's enough to come up with a new type of captcha with different fonts every time and market bots would have problems immidiately.

Knowing what I know about the EVE community it's safe to say we're not stupid. If you actually think people would have great trouble understanding how to input a captcha code or something similar not only are you incredibly stupid but you should biomass yourself instead because foolish people should not be allowed to mate for the good of humanity.

KILL IT BEFORE IT LAYS EGGS etc.

Also, do you really think it's THAT easy to fool captcha? It's enough to come up with a new type of captcha with different fonts every time and market bots would have problems immidiately.

It would also kill anyone who plays the market having to enter a captcha every time they changed an order. CCP has been trying to remove the really tedious useless parts of eve for years, adding a feature that would be the most tedious of all is insane. Soon you will be saying we shouldn't have grouped guns cause they all can be fired with one click of a button.

Did you even read what the OP wrote?

Only if you change your market orders too often should a captcha be required. Human beings, most of us, don't sit in Jita adjusting our market orders 24 hours a day. Most of us wouldn't even be affected.

Actually I support the idea, and I also have hundreds of market orders across three characters. As long as it only kicks in after so many edits to the price in such a timeframe. (Would help remove/hinder bots and the 0.01 isk battles somewhat.) Under those circumstances I support it.

I can understand some people hating this that actually don't use bots, but those are the people who sit in jita 24/7 and that's the entire game for them. I actually feel sorry for them, they are glorified fleshy calculators that can't enjoy life.

Actually I support the idea, and I also have hundreds of market orders across three characters. As long as it only kicks in after so many edits to the price in such a timeframe. (Would help remove/hinder bots and the 0.01 isk battles somewhat.) Under those circumstances I support it.

automate the update process.

Put simply, have an option to make your selling item automatically be 1% or 1 ISK below all other competition, whichever is the larger amount.

Everyone wins.

Now, for those who missed the wicked humor here, imagine if two of these were active at the same time against each other.

The solution for this is to set a base cost, where the price will not drop below.

How is that market bot program working out for ya?

I have never used any sort of bot. I never 0.01 isk. And I still don't want captcha.

But tell me this: how do you know it is a bot? The fact that you are being 0.01 isked does not equal market bot. After all, that is exactly what you are doing to someone else. And I bet they are cussing about their bot opponent too!

I change my orders.. I dunno 20 times per 24 hours? A couple of times in the morning, a couple of times at work and a couple of times in the evening.

This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.

Nobody, nobody can be at the computer 24/7. Even if someone is there 16/7, he sure isn't editing his market orders around the clock because who in their right mind would do that.

If undercutting the competition by 0.01 isk no matter what time it is isn't a pretty clear sign of a bot to you then I don't know what argument could make you think otherwise.

If it's a bot, use it against him. Isk war him down cheap then buy him out and raise your own prices back up so you make significant margin again on the cheap stock of his you bought out.

Where's your proof that people are using market bots?

I'm not saying that they're not, just that you assumption that "I change order and then someone else changes an order straight away, thus bots" is a little speculative.

What items are you selling?
Do you realise how many people play the market game?
Do you realise how many orders some people have?

The idea that people "hop on and change their orders in 5min twice a day" is comical. I have some accounts, each with some characters all of whom can place some orders.

Does that make me a bot or just someone who spends a lot of time on the market?

Logic would tell you that, of course, not everybody is a bot but please do explain what type of human being is able to be online 24/7?

What I'm selling is none of your business. The fact that certain individuals tend to be able to play the market game 24/7 is more than enough evidence to make me concerned.

This guy is there 24/7 and I know it's the same guy because I've verified it through buying from his stacks.

The only way that you can know that he is there 24/7 is if you too are there 24/7. Therefore, if he is a bot, then so are you.

Why not just remove the lowest-order-gets-the-sale feature?

And on week later, when all the market bots have been patched, you're left with thousands of players who get pissed off by the bloody things.

Bots are better at captcha than humans are. All putting the things in would do is drive players out, while the bots just kept on going.

As for the questions, tell me. What language would they be in? And what about the players who don't speak them? We have Russian, German and Japanese clients, but what about the French? the Spanish? The Hungarians, Polish, Koreans, and whoever the hell else plays?

tl:dr, biomass yourself.

No idea why the obvious solution is not being discussed.

Automate the price dropping feature for EVERYONE.

Allow the player to set a minimum value, below which the system will not operate.
Have a starting value, which the system will automatically climb towards if no competition exists.

Being AFK, it can compete with any other "automated" play very effectively.

Live players can take advantage of the entire system quite easily too, if they are clever.

(Bob wants to sell Item X for XX ISK. He will buy more stock for resale at another location if his competition drops below a certain price, so he wins either way. If he depletes his competitors stock, then he sets the prices here, as well as has inventory for other location)