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Reasons people don't go into LoSec (and its not risk v reward)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Inna Merr Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.09.07 04:08:00 - [31] - Quote D-scan autorefresh software mod download instructions: D-scan Autorefresh V 0.94
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 1393	Posted - 2013.09.07 04:17:00 - [32] - Quote that guy is pretty enthusiastic about his bot, i'll give him that. sounds dedicated to keeping it running
S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District 151	Posted - 2013.09.07 04:30:00 - [33] - Quote Domanique Altares wrote: OP says it's not about risk v. reward, then spend time explaining how it is about risk v. reward. As long as I have to sit in space somehwhere and manually work a set of probes to find you, you need to be sitting in space somewhere, clicking a button to see me coming. That's not saying d-scan couldn't use work, as it could; but giving more free intel to either end of the predator-prey spectrum is not the answer. If it's all about risk v. reward I guess we can consider auto d-scan with no strings attached since gankers just got huge probing buffs?
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 3372	Posted - 2013.09.07 04:47:00 - [34] - Quote This topic has been addressed before.
Lipbite Express Hauler 782	Posted - 2013.09.07 04:52:00 - [35] - Quote Poster Master wrote: But the PROBLEM with D-scan is the mind numbing stupid "feature" of clicking it every 2 seconds. You misunderstood whole idea: it's not a "problem" - it's feature. EVE is designed for people who like troubles and problems. Otherwise I can't explain some of the game's major "features" - why are they still in game and not automated (scanning mini-games for example)?
S Byerley The Manhattan Engineer District 151	Posted - 2013.09.07 04:59:00 - [36] - Quote Lipbite wrote: You misunderstood whole idea: it's not a "problem" - it's feature. EVE is designed for people who like troubles and problems. Otherwise I can't explain some of the game's major "features" - why are they still in game and not automated (scanning mini-games for example)? Seems like a bad example since they just finished removing probe launch delay and automating formation. I'm not sure pressing a button really qualifies as a mini-game either. Most of Eve's more mind numbing habits are products of a bygone MMO era that CCP doesn't seem to have any particular attachment to.
Conrad Makbure Division One Security 61	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:01:00 - [37] - Quote I wondered why D-scan wasn't given an auto scan by now and still I'm wondering. So, what, is it a server request thing? Too much if D-scan was auto scan every 3 seconds? "Just click the button cos it's easy" is a bullshit rebuttal; the one-click wonder system sucks and you know it.
Zappity Kurved Space 346	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:09:00 - [38] - Quote Conrad Makbure wrote: "Just click the button cos it's easy" is a bullshit rebuttal; the one-click wonder system sucks and you know it. This is true. But it is also true that auto-refresh could be TOO easy. Free information might be nice for you as an individual player but is not necessarily good for game balance. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Utremi Fasolasi La Dolce Vita 268	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:16:00 - [39] - Quote DUST 514 actually has a nice mechanic for this - your suit automatically scans an area around you and tags other players in range, so you have some idea what is out there, and the sensor strength of your suit affects what and how far you can pick up other suits' signature. Some suits are bonused for scanner stealth, and need a higher scan strength to show up. With enough stealth bonuses someone can sneak right up behind you and nova knife you in the back or shotgun to the back the head. So you have to keep looking around you at all times. There is a minimap radar view that shows a birdseye view of what is nearby that you are able to scan and you can also see the tags around you in the terrain. Translate that to the tactical/sensor overlay in space in some way for a ship and you have a viable replacement for D Scan spreadsheets with Lost TV Series type Button. Along with some opportunities for additional modules and tactics, or new uses of existing modules that affect sensors. Structures naturally that are in range could just show up without a stealth mode that ships have. Or there could be modules that help dampen the signatures of a POS.
Poster Master Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:17:00 - [40] - Quote What if we made D-scan automatic (persistent), and D-scan stopped picking up probes altogether. Instead, it would pick up "space-time anomalies". Every 3-5 minutes or so, the system would get a random space time anomaly or two, and your D-scan would pick them up. To get more detail on the anomaly, you'd have to use up a consumable item in your cargo hold. Most of the time this action would resolve the anomaly into some useless piece of info like an "unusable micro wormhole". Here's the kicker: probes would also emit a space-time anomaly (one anomaly for all probes within 14 AU). Using up the cargo hold item to resolve it would identify the anomaly as "scanning residual signature", indicative of an active scanner probe. This does several things: D-scan is always active and refreshing - no clicking every 2 seconds. Only have to click every 3 minutes or so to check out the new anomaly to make sure it is not a probe. Still requires paying attention to the D-scanner. Gankers can sneak up by timing their probing with a naturally occuring phenomena (which may make the player take time resolving the wrong signature and not be aware of the hidden probes), or attempt to distract a person form the d-scanner altogether. Now, you have active game play. Say you see 4 natural phenomena on d-scan. It takes 20 seconds to resolve them all, and you could get probed down in that time. Normally you know these resolve to nothing. But maybe this time you are being scanned? Do you take the risk of losing progress and hide, or do you decide to spend the 20 seconds risking the fact that it may be nothing? You now have active DECISION making. In a cheap ship you will most likely stay. IN a 400 mil ship you may be inclined to be safer.

Prince Sanguine Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two 47	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:28:00 - [41] - Quote Guiz people only go into low for isk... I mean, wat U w0t mate?! fight me IRL.! do you even lift?!
Tarn Kugisa Infinite Covenant Tribal Band 457	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:35:00 - [42] - Quote I go through lowsec with a bustard all the time and no one ever gives me crap about it (by crap I mean shooting at me), probably due to the +5 warp strength I have on it. I Endorse this Product and/or Service EVE Online Battle Recorder When I press F1 I get ISK
Mr Pragmatic 631	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:39:00 - [43] - Quote I don't go into low sec because its full of space turds. Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness. -á-Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Utremi Fasolasi La Dolce Vita 268	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:39:00 - [44] - Quote Tarn Kugisa wrote: I go through lowsec with a bustard all the time and no one ever gives me crap about it (by crap I mean shooting at me), probably due to the +5 warp strength I have on it. You kind of just told people how many points to put on you if they wanted to look (lock) you up.
Poster Master Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:40:00 - [45] - Quote Prince Sanguine wrote: Guiz people only go into low for isk... I mean, wat This post isn't about what people do in LoSec. It's about how to get more people there. Eve is ALL ABOUT ISK. You can buy skill points with ISK (characters), you can buy Pvp ships with ISK, you can buy gametime with ISK. Therefore ISK is THE SOLE line of progression outside of your own skill. It stands to reason if LoSec/Null sec is made more fun, more people will earn ISK there, and therefore more people will live there
baltec1 Bat Country 7848	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:48:00 - [46] - Quote No matter what you do the spineless will think of another reason to not leave high sec.
Motorbit Viriette Industrial Combined Arms Militia Villore Accords 16	Posted - 2013.09.07 05:56:00 - [47] - Quote cmon... why would someone not leaving highsec even bother about how d-scan works. but sure, eve communications standard procedure: if you cant come up with a point, just blame your target to be a noob. (extrapoints if you can produce a bad killboard)
Tetsuo Tsukaya Pixel Navigators 117	Posted - 2013.09.07 06:26:00 - [48] - Quote Poster Master wrote: Prince Sanguine wrote: Guiz people only go into low for isk... I mean, wat This post isn't about what people do in LoSec. It's about how to get more people there. Eve is ALL ABOUT ISK. You can buy skill points with ISK (characters), you can buy Pvp ships with ISK, you can buy gametime with ISK. Therefore ISK is THE SOLE line of progression outside of your own skill. It stands to reason if LoSec/Null sec is made more fun, more people will earn ISK there, and therefore more people will live there This comes up very often. I get that you're trying to help by proposing solutions, but did you ever consider that many of us in low sec don't actually want more people out here? It's a very different experience living out in the frontier lands where 24 people is a busy system, some of us like actually knowing your neighbours, paying attention to every new person who comes into system, and having low sec become "hi sec but you can shoot people" isn't a step in the right direction. There's a lot of things that could be improved in low sec, the population level isn't one of them.
Tuggboat Oneida Inc. 19	Posted - 2013.09.07 06:44:00 - [49] - Quote I liked that idea about nerfing auto-repeat. Nerfs are great, brain paralysis is great, slow ships are great, I just love foam rubber.
Solstice Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 3886	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:00:00 - [50] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No matter what you do the spineless will think of another reason to not leave high sec. Quoted. For truth!

Solstice Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 3886	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:04:00 - [51] - Quote Poster Master wrote: Prince Sanguine wrote: Guiz people only go into low for isk... I mean, wat This post isn't about what people do in LoSec. It's about how to get more people there. Eve is ALL ABOUT ISK. You can buy skill points with ISK (characters), you can buy Pvp ships with ISK, you can buy gametime with ISK. Therefore ISK is THE SOLE line of progression outside of your own skill. It stands to reason if LoSec/Null sec is made more fun, more people will earn ISK there, and therefore more people will live there Meaning EvE is ALL ABOUT THE TIME AND WORK involved in making ISK. ISK itself is pointless. If there is no work, there is no ISK.
Roime Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 3338	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:06:00 - [52] - Quote Can't see how spamming d-scan is different from spamming target locks in the overview. But yeah I'm supporting every possible method of keeping terribads in hisec, as long as they stay there they can't ruin the game for EVE players, so please keep d-scan as it is. 90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á
Riot Girl Krypteia Operations 1730	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:08:00 - [53] - Quote Poster Master wrote: What if we made D-scan automatic (persistent), and D-scan stopped picking up probes altogether. Instead, it would pick up "space-time anomalies". Why not just force people to use manual D-scan for probes, the same way they do now? Oh god.
Mocam EVE University Ivy League 301	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:18:00 - [54] - Quote I don't see what you are describing as being the issue on why people don't go there. That's more an annoyance for those who are accustomed to going there regularly. I also find it has less to do with the loss of ships over "waiting it out". Plenty of new folks try lowsec. Many lose a ship but that doesn't necessarily deter them from going back. What does deter them is when they actually get away then sit for an hour or more waiting for this or that camped area to clear so they then can try and do what they set out to do in that space. This doesn't have to be common to deter people. When you do slip back out of a gate camp or manage to get into a station then are camped in or out of a system for an hour or more, that pretty much ends your desire to continue going back there. It's also not the player's fault on this. Game mechanics dictate that you cannot stop someone if they get into warp - they are immune to everything while in warp so you have to catch them before they can initiate it (tackling) vs catching them - this means either finding them doing something (ratting, or what not) or at entrances to a system's space before they can get up to speed to warp. So if you have a place you need to get into or out of and your path is camped, you wait it out and people don't log into a game to wait for others to leave so they can play it - thus they find other places to game. I've seen this from newer players who decided to go to lowsec for their activities. It wasn't when they were caught there that bothered them (each lost a couple ships or more "learning") - it was when they got away from the traps and then waited out camps in those systems that stopped them from trying to run there. It just wasn't worth their gaming time waiting. Different perspective is all. I know a different vet who prefers bumping into camps vs being at more risk while running in a system. He doesn't like raised risks vs more safety while "doing" vs while "traveling" - I think the traveling should be less risky while doing stuff should hold more risks but having seen how newer folks find the "wait itout" so annoying yet don't seem to mind losing while doing ... Different mindsets on the topic.
Conrad Makbure Division One Security 61	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:19:00 - [55] - Quote It would be a world of improvement if they just gave it a keybind, especially for everyone with a macro keyboard.
Conrad Makbure Division One Security 61	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:21:00 - [56] - Quote Zappity wrote: Conrad Makbure wrote: "Just click the button cos it's easy" is a bullshit rebuttal; the one-click wonder system sucks and you know it. This is true. But it is also true that auto-refresh could be TOO easy. Free information might be nice for you as an individual player but is not necessarily good for game balance. You know, if it came down to it, I could write a macro script that hits that button every 5 seconds, but I don't want to (for now). Not good for "game balance" is a bad reason to shut this idea down.
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 1366	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:22:00 - [57] - Quote S Byerley wrote: If it's all about risk v. reward I guess we can consider auto d-scan with no strings attached since gankers just got huge probing buffs? I know, right? Probing people down is much faster now. Soon, it'll only take five times the amount of time that clicking on D-Scan does, instead of 10. Also, I'm looking forward to having scan probes on all ships, to equal the utility of D-Scan. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 382	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:30:00 - [58] - Quote Motorbit wrote: cmon... why would someone not leaving highsec even bother about how d-scan works. Doesn't matter where you are. If you're not using D-Scan,you're doing it wrong. Remove insurance.
Riot Girl Krypteia Operations 1730	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:31:00 - [59] - Quote Domanique Altares wrote: Also, I'm looking forward to having scan probes on all ships, to equal the utility of D-Scan. I don't really understand why combat probes require so much CPU to use. I can't understand the reasoning behind that. Oh god.
Zappity Kurved Space 346	Posted - 2013.09.07 07:33:00 - [60] - Quote Conrad Makbure wrote: Not good for "game balance" is a bad reason to shut this idea down. What better reason could there be? Or you prefer simplicity at the cost of balance, meaning there is less reason to play in the first place? Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")



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