It's decent on things like Drakes that have no range bonus, but yeah, it's a far cry from what HMs used to be, not that I want them to be how they were (800dps 110km Tengus lol), but I think it was taken just a wee bit too far.

HM being the long range med size missile system we're far away from the numbers you can push with all other med size LR weapons, really really far away.
I said this well before HAC/guns changes, HM's need a huge buff now to get in same line of dps but I guess we can forget this for a couple years now.

Yeah this is pretty much a classic case of CCP nerfing one system into the ground and buffing all the other competing ones shortly after, essentially putting one weapon system down in the crapper. The title used to belong to railguns, but now we're welcoming HMs to the new throne of being crap for the next 3 years.

Really, give HMLs back their damage and they are more or less fine compared to rails and beams now.

While I will say that the Cerb changes went a bit too far, I will disagree with giving HMLs their old stats back.

.

While I will say that the Cerb changes went a bit too far, I will disagree with giving HMLs their old stats back.

There are a couple of reasons for this;
For starters, IIRC they are still the longest range *medium class* weapon with the best damage.
No other ship can match them. Sure the other ones have more damage up close, but nothing competes with HMLs at range...

While I will say that the Cerb changes went a bit too far, I will disagree with giving HMLs their old stats back.

There are a couple of reasons for this;
For starters, IIRC they are still the longest range *medium class* weapon with the best damage.
No other ship can match them. Sure the other ones have more damage up close, but nothing competes with HMLs at range.

Secondly, their damage type is whatever you fit.
Railguns are fixed, Lasers are fixed, and Artillery is fixed at long range.
Granted some hulls have a specific damage type bonus, but that doesn't mean you need to use it 100% of the time.

Lastly, they have the lowest fitting requirements of the other ranged weapon types.
Beams and rails have notoriously high fitting requirements, which often results in weakly tanked ships.
HML setups don't typically have this issue.



If there is one thing I would like to see changed about HMLs, it would be their damage application to smaller ships.
Specifically Cruisers, since they don't hit them particularly well, when they should.

It might be time for a VERY generous buff of most missiles on the explosion velocity metric. Thats whats making them loltastic for pvp and it is uncalled for imo.

Small missiles and Cruise missiles are fine atm.

Heavy missiles had their DPS reduced to "match" that of the medium LR turrets, due to the frankly fallacious argument that Prometheus employed above, which turrets subsequently have had their DPS increased by 20-25%.

IMO, HML damage should be increased by at least 5%.

As long CCP doesn't invent a working Anti-Missile module giving long range missiles too much DPS is just making them overpowered. [...] There is no real possibility to counter them.

Cerberus still gimped? Mate the Cerb is now the most powerful HAC out there. Mad DPS and range with HAMS? Check. RLML Caracal on steroids? Check. Amazing cap life for ability to kite? Check.
If anything the Cerb was taken too far. But hell, I like it

Then why is no one using them for PvP any more?

It's not just the Cerb that is 'meh' with HMLs, the whole weapon system has gone to the shitter compared to other options.

Cerberus is ridiculously powerful with the new Genolution set (fit taken from another forum)

Internal Force Field Array I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II x2

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II x6

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II

HAMs still do ~200-240 DPS on small sig frigates in this config, shield tankers and bigger targets near 700, it's a damn powerful ship now and fast to boot.

Cerberus is ridiculously powerful with the new Genolution set (fit taken from another forum)

Internal Force Field Array I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II x2

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II x6

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II

HAMs still do ~200-240 DPS on small sig frigates in this config, shield tankers and bigger targets near 700, it's a damn powerful ship now and fast to boot.

I'd rather have nobody using them than everybody using them again

CCP designed a whole bunch of ships with specific specialised functions
and then we the player base turn round and say .. sorry ccp but if doesn't have point, web & prop mod it's a sh!t fit
we homogenise the ship classes by using generalised 1 sized fits all loadouts, and then complain that the game is flat & stale.

You either homogenise everything, or have things working against each other
im not sure CCP know which way they want to go atm..



Cerberus with RLML's does unspeakably horrible things to those small fast pesky frigates btw.
The only other fitting option is HAM's
because HML's extend past point/web range, and are therefore redundant

none of this is actually ccp's fault, it's ours

CCP designed a whole bunch of ships with specific specialised functions
and then we the player base turn round and say .. sorry ccp but if doesn't have point, web & prop mod it's a sh!t fit
we homogenise the ship classes by using generalised 1 sized fits all loadouts, and then complain that the game is flat & stale.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense. Players fit ships to be as good/efficient as possible at the application they want them for.

the issue is most other weapons have the other weapons system work almost as well. AC and arty for example...good either way. In the past all I used hml cerb for was falcon sniping. Its good at it....but when shooting a wet paper bag tanked ship that paper bag makes any weapon look good. Cerb's hook was it was out of falcon range.

When I x-trained minmatar however...I got a decent ac vaga and arty muninn to play with based on need and mood.

^ This, as getting it across to missile numpties is the PITA it has always been. Medium range weapons.

Blasters - you have to be humping the target.
Rails - you have to work out traversal, or hold the target still.

Autos - you have to at least get inside 10k to do high dps, holding down target - falloff kills the DPS as you get range.
Artillery - get traversal right, or hold target still. Optimal is crap for high DPS - 20k, so imagine its 20% less and dropping as you get range - forget looking at fking EFT.

Pulse - decent range, but worse tracking. Traversal is an issue close up.
Beams - see artillery - once out of optimal it getting to zero dps fast.

HAM - shorter range but ALWAYS hit, Speed is a concern, hold it still.
HML - superb range, they ALWAYS HIT. Speed is a concern, hold the target still.

In all cases - sig radius of target has significant effect on dps. In all cases, you need to have the target tackled to make good use of short range weapons, and moreso for long range weapons.

If I am using artillery and tring to web/scram a target then im '****ed'. I WILL NOT HIT IT. Same for beams and rails. The slightest mistake flying means I fail - THATS WHAT MISSILE USERS MISS.

You have to fly the ship - not just orbit.
You have to tackle it, or have someone tackle it, using webs, painters etc. Long range then works.

If you want balance - then make artillery and rails and beams and autos and blasters and pulse always hit.



ARGHHHHHHHHH - I hate noobs who use missiles and moan. Try being a noob with rails or beams.

HAM - shorter range but ALWAYS hit, Speed is a concern, hold it still.
HML - superb range, they ALWAYS HIT. Speed is a concern, hold the target still.