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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:29:00 -
[1]
so the explosion radius is 125 m this is just insane...i do crap dmg to a frig and i have guided missile precision 5
another thing is the 45% cap recharge penalty PER LAUNCHER with 3 t2 rocket launchers on my crow this gives me a 392 second capacitor recharge time
I just wasted 5mil on this ammo because frankly it sucks...I cannot do anything with 392 sec cap recharge time on a frigate that is just bloody rediculous...if there has not been any whining about this yet it is time to start. My idea to fix this would just to be make it a single 45% penalty just for using the ammo on your ship... this needs to be implemented for all... and i suggest making the explosion radius 50 m because 125 is not realistic for rockets since they are designed to hit small targets only.
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lofty29
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:32:00 -
[2]
For **** SAKES! Tech II ammo is made for anti capital ship and structure use, not to take down other people gank stylee. Fit light missiles if you want pwnmobile tech II. Get over it.
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:43:00 -
[3]
ooooohhhhhhh Im sorry i didn't know tech 2 rockets were meant to take down capital ships and structures... that explains everything...i can finally be satisfied using my INTERCEPTOR to intercept those speedy POS's and drednaughts with... cant wait to pwn one all by myself...
the battleship like recharge rate must mean it is supposed to do a drednaughts or battleships work then...
honestly i would just roll over and die if i were you...
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Wizie
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:45:00 -
[4]
Those rockets would be uber against cruiser sized objects though :) Seems they have a purpose.
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: lofty29 For **** SAKES! Tech II ammo is made for anti capital ship and structure use, not to take down other people gank stylee. Fit light missiles if you want pwnmobile tech II. Get over it.
What a load of rubbish, for a start T2 rage rockets cant even penetrate the radius of a pos forcefield to even hit the control tower ---------------
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:47:00 -
[6]
and btw tech 2 ammo is a luxury of which some have the pleasure of using...it should have a penalty but it should also be better than tech 1 ammo the penalty is over the top right now and i am only asking ccp to fix it so that its explosion radius is 50m and it has a 35-45% increase in cap recharge time overall not per launcher...
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:48:00 -
[7]
but u cant hold up any kind of tank or scrambling and webbing to use them long enough to take out cruisers with that kind of cap penalty
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:50:00 -
[8]
the problem of the capr ech penatly is that u cant sustain a mwd, a scram or anything - its jsut laughable.
and using the javelin torps would b like putting a web on urself - and we all know whats gonna happen to webbed frigs.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.09 23:22:00 -
[9]
"so the explosion radius is 125 m this is just insane...i do crap dmg to a frig and i have guided missile precision 5"
Rockets are unguided so the Guided Missile Precision doesn't affect them at all in the first place ^^;;
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.01.10 00:52:00 -
[10]
Thought I'd mention that I popped onto the test server and while I can't comment on the problems with manufacture and research (like proj ammo having ludicrously short bp copy times) in most cases the debuffs for using tech 2 ammo have increased (rockets haven't changed).
Using Javelin S ammo in your small railguns will see -20% shields and -20% velocity per gun Javelin M is -14% and L is around -8%. This kind of scaling applies to all the missile types as well.
I'll say this though: If you're fighting a Turret based cruiser it's worth swapping out T1 rockets for T2 Rage as even without a MWD medium guns have difficulty hitting a small target moving 600m/s at a range of 3km and the added damage you do to a ship of this size makes it very worthwhile.
Thing to remember people: You do not have to use only 1 type of ammo ALL THE TIME. With regard to Rockets it's certainly worthwhile carrying some Rage around with you for when the situation demands it.
Although ALL T2 ammo is massively overpriced at the moment. Once the new toy shine wears off and people discover they are building up a few million rockets as a surplus the price will begin to drop to something useful. I can't wait for T2 med Rail ammo to drop below 500isk each as I shall be buying it up by the badger load.
As all T1 ammo producers know: It's not how big your margin is but how much volume you shift in a day. T2 will be no different.
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Alerce
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Posted - 2006.01.10 00:53:00 -
[11]
Dont worry, they will "fix" normal ammo, so that even the tech 2 ammo will look good.
Thats the way ccp makes most "new" stuff, take away what we have and gives "new" skills, that then when fully learned gives us the same result as before the expansion patch ;0
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2006.01.10 00:56:00 -
[12]
You should be using cap charges with Fury Rockets (yes, this means you can MWD/Web/ and scramble all at the same time).
Basically, Use normal rockets for solo work, switch to furies for downing large targets in gank squads. _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space!
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.10 01:06:00 -
[13]
Edited by: j0sephine on 10/01/2006 01:06:43
"You should be using cap charges with Fury Rockets (yes, this means you can MWD/Web/ and scramble all at the same time)."
MWD, web *and* scramble while using cap charges?
wtb: Crow with 4 mid slots... -.^
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.10 05:22:00 -
[14]
the cap recharge penalty right now is per launcher...this makes it too large...Id say a 45% overall penalty would be fine and would hinder tanking ability but not gimp the ship completely
but 45% per launcher ludicrous...I have a 392 second capacitor recharge time on a CROW...doesn't anyone see a problem with this? ccp?
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Xio2
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Posted - 2006.01.10 06:15:00 -
[15]
hey NUBS...listen to Ethan..he know's what hes talking about and i'd put 100k ISK that hes right. at least hear what he says to say and instead of pouring on a FREAKING TON OF SARCASM give a logical explanation as to why he might be wrong or why he is right. thank you AND IM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL YOU GUYS WHO GIVE CRAP REASONS AND ARE JUST RUDE ABOUT ANYTHING ANYONE HAS TO SAY.
and i absolutly agree on the recharge rate...way to screwy for an interceptor to have a 400s recharge time. -------------- now this is the way a sig should be Xio2 |
Estya Nethary
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Posted - 2006.01.10 07:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xio2 hey NUBS...listen to Ethan..he know's what hes talking about and i'd put 100k ISK that hes right. at least hear what he says to say and instead of pouring on a FREAKING TON OF SARCASM give a logical explanation as to why he might be wrong or why he is right. thank you AND IM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL YOU GUYS WHO GIVE CRAP REASONS AND ARE JUST RUDE ABOUT ANYTHING ANYONE HAS TO SAY.
and i absolutly agree on the recharge rate...way to screwy for an interceptor to have a 400s recharge time.
You're the one calling people names here... If sarcasm is required to make your point, then so be it. Just screaming we should all shut up and do what the OP sais is sortof taking the whole point of the thread away.
On the other hand, as someone else said, t2 ammo's in general are meant for a specific task. Rockets to take down cruisers in this case. As we all know, rocket crows and kessies are VERY VERY powerful in frig combat, and giving them an ammo that will do even more damage(which is the thing that makes this strategy work) will just overpower them. If you can't scramble an enemy, get a friend to do it. He tackles, you kill. It's as simple as that. t2 ammo is a gang-thing IMO
Originally by: TomB It is a good day to be Jove
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.10 08:03:00 -
[17]
Edited by: j0sephine on 10/01/2006 08:03:49
"As we all know, rocket crows and kessies are VERY VERY powerful in frig combat, and giving them an ammo that will do even more damage(which is the thing that makes this strategy work) will just overpower them."
Rocket Crow is equivalent of rail Taranis, damage- and weapon range wise.
Blaster Taranis does much more damage than the rail Taranis. But is it overpowered? hardly. It's a very good ship, but extremely short weapon range provides natural counter-balance to high damage output.
I don't think i need to spell the obvious at this point, but... rather than turn the high damage rockets into some intricate device to commit suicide, the increase of damage could come with the counter of much shorter range than what regular rockets offer. Can be even easily explained as far as game fiction goes (the rocket has more explosives packed, leaving less room for fuel) ... as opposed to this whole 'capacitor diverted to engines to control recoil' thing, that makes no sense seeing how the cap recharge is killed even if one is not shooting i.e. when there's no recoil to control...
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Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.01.10 10:28:00 -
[18]
Ethan the penalty is supposed to just be a single one but it got broke and applied it to all of the guns.
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.10 10:35:00 -
[19]
yeah...what she said.. i fired 1 thorn rage rocket at a buddy in a crusader...thing did 11.1 dmg then i tried a regular thorn 34.something dmg.... ummm ok...
also how is the high precision rocket high precision when its explosion velocity is smaller than that of t1 and its explosion radius is 30 while t1 is 25? i dont see the point of even having it since it does the same dmg...
I tried precision scorges on my cerb and while slowing it down to a top speed of 66 m/s or something retarted like that i was satisfied that it did maximum dmg to frigate class ships... at least this thing works the way it should even if its penalty is a bit insane...
why are the rockets such abortions? i want to know...rocket crows arn't as pwn as everyone thinks i have abstained to fit 400 mm plates anymore and this thing now goes down faster than a CU chick at a frat party!
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Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.01.10 10:39:00 -
[20]
I think the whole thing about the precision missiles is they are supposed to be used on targets smaller than the weapon being used, sadly frigs are as small as it gets so the small precision ammo seems somewhat pointless, atleast its good to hear that once they fix the stacking on the ammo penalties that bigger ships will be able to kill frigs again :)
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.10 10:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cypherous Ethan the penalty is supposed to just be a single one but it got broke and applied it to all of the guns.
FINALLY...THANK you cypherous i knew it was broken i just hadn't read anything on it...thank u for clearing it up... any eta on a fix? cause that **** is killing me
is it the same thing with the large t2 guns because my tracking is absolutely rediculous with them... i cant hit a frig orbiting the gate at 500m/s from 200km with my megathron cause my tracking is so bad :(
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Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.01.10 10:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson
Originally by: Cypherous Ethan the penalty is supposed to just be a single one but it got broke and applied it to all of the guns.
FINALLY...THANK you cypherous i knew it was broken i just hadn't read anything on it...thank u for clearing it up... any eta on a fix? cause that **** is killing me
is it the same thing with the large t2 guns because my tracking is absolutely rediculous with them... i cant hit a frig orbiting the gate at 500m/s from 200km with my megathron cause my tracking is so bad :(
No problem
As for the tracking are you using T2 ammo and if so it might begiving you a penalty to tracking, scorch S crystals give a penalty even tho the description says boost but thats fine as its a small pulse laser so i can hit what i'm after anyways.
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Roba
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Posted - 2006.01.10 10:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 10/01/2006 08:03:49
"As we all know, rocket crows and kessies are VERY VERY powerful in frig combat, and giving them an ammo that will do even more damage(which is the thing that makes this strategy work) will just overpower them."
Rocket Crow is equivalent of rail Taranis, damage- and weapon range wise.
Blaster Taranis does much more damage than the rail Taranis. But is it overpowered? hardly. It's a very good ship, but extremely short weapon range provides natural counter-balance to high damage output.
I don't think i need to spell the obvious at this point, but... rather than turn the high damage rockets into some intricate device to commit suicide, the increase of damage could come with the counter of much shorter range than what regular rockets offer. Can be even easily explained as far as game fiction goes (the rocket has more explosives packed, leaving less room for fuel) ... as opposed to this whole 'capacitor diverted to engines to control recoil' thing, that makes no sense seeing how the cap recharge is killed even if one is not shooting i.e. when there's no recoil to control...
Interesting point, but what about something even simpilar. You mention the whole rp cap deverted to engines to handle recoil. What if they just give Rage Rockets a capac ussage per shot. Like 5 capac per shot, which is a pretty heavy drain with a 1.5 sec rof and 3 launchers going. More then lasers.
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2006.01.10 11:15:00 -
[24]
where do u guys get this 1.5 sec rof lol
best i can do is 1.97 and i got rapid fire 5 and rocket spec 5 with t2 launchers and t2 bcu on my crow
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.10 11:41:00 -
[25]
Edited by: j0sephine on 10/01/2006 11:45:01
"Interesting point, but what about something even simpilar. You mention the whole rp cap deverted to engines to handle recoil. What if they just give Rage Rockets a capac ussage per shot."
Yes, that'd work too ^^
incidentally, what Ethan said.. really curious where this 1.5 sec RoF thing comes from... with base RoF of 3.2 sec on tech.2 launcher even with all skills maxed out and full Kestrel bonus it doesn't go anywhere near that (1.65 sec) unless you start sticking some damage mods there... on Crow and similar ships it doesn't get better than 2.2 sec without damage mods/implants o.O;
edit: oh and before we wave laser cap usage, let's not forget quite a few ships out there get significant cap usage reduction for these... bringing amount per shot down to less than 3 cap/shot for medium beams, or 1.6 for pulses. With RoF slower than the one of rockets on top of that.
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.01.10 12:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson where do u guys get this 1.5 sec rof lol
best i can do is 1.97 and i got rapid fire 5 and rocket spec 5 with t2 launchers and t2 bcu on my crow
I've wondered about this ROF figure as well. Do the missile implants effect the ROF. (I don't know as I haven't checked). Even if they do bring it down to that it is far beyond the normal and a very extreme case.
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