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Arther Risalo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
   |
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all. I'm a PvE player interested in doing missions, but I have a rl disability that affects my motor control. Because of this, I'm nervous about losing ships. Could you guys suggest a possible passive tank route as far as ships go for me? Thanks |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research
STEEL BROTHERHOOD
3
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
What level missions? how much isk can you spend?* Nothing is truly safe in Eve, and the more safe you want to be the more isk you will spend.
*Ball park numbers are fine. |
Cage Man
258
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would suggest aiming for a rattlesnake. Don't have a passive fit handy, but it does it really well and has a nice big drone bay so if you loose a few you will have extra's. Not sure how you feel about drones though. Also can fit the high with a RR to rep the sentries.
In the short term till you get your skills and isk up use a gila, also a drone boat.
If you not into drones then maybe a drake then tengu. DPS will be lower than an active tanked ship, but you will survive.
You can also make an active tanked scorpion that is cap stable, and as long as you not doing missions that have neuting/nosing you will be OK.
Unfortunately at work so no fits handy.
The thick plottens... |
Arther Risalo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:What level missions? how much isk can you spend?* Nothing is truly safe in Eve, and the more safe you want to be the more isk you will spend.
*Ball park numbers are fine.
Lvl 4s, I think. I know i'm never 100% safe ;) Right now, i'm an utter beginner with ~3m isk... |
Arther Risalo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:I would suggest aiming for a rattlesnake. Don't have a passive fit handy, but it does it really well and has a nice big drone bay so if you loose a few you will have extra's. Not sure how you feel about drones though. Also can fit the high with a RR to rep the sentries.
In the short term till you get your skills and isk up use a gila, also a drone boat.
If you not into drones then maybe a drake then tengu. DPS will be lower than an active tanked ship, but you will survive.
You can also make an active tanked scorpion that is cap stable, and as long as you not doing missions that have neuting/nosing you will be OK.
Unfortunately at work so no fits handy.
So maybe domi > gila > scorp/rattle? |
Arther Risalo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 20:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
polite bump |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
239
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Passive tanks for L4s are kind of rare (at least in my experience), because incoming DPS can be very high. In L3s, I've used a passive Cane extensively. I'm currently running a buffer Typhoon fit, which is kinda sorta passive but doesn't use any shield recharge mods. It just has a pretty massive buffer of 85k EHP (tank: DC2, 2 Invul, 1 LSE, 3 Core Defense Field Extenders). Plus I have near max shield and shield support skills. Also, I use a cruise long range fit and a MWD, so range is key to my defense.
Bokononist
-á |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
11221
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tank
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tanking
As a new player, it's gonna be a while before you have the required standings to access level 4 agents let alone have the necessary skills trained up to pilot a ship able to complete those missions.
Having said that, don't be in a rush to do them until you've got all the core fitting and support skills trained up.. You check the certs in-game for appropriate Core Fitting skills to train.
Various wiki's have plenty of info available. Just type in something like 'Fitting' or 'Guides', etc.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Guides
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Guides
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Category:Guides
Good luck to you and welcome to Eve.
DMC |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1484
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
As money gets more available I would honestly consider going Tengu... My only activity typically with L4's in Tengu is changing direction and hitting F1 to launch. :) With lower level missions there are more choices of course, but the Tengu has always been an almost AFK boat for me with L4's.
Edit: I also like the SNI (Scorpion Navy Issue) for L4's, but it's more hands-on with drone management and target selection for the Cruise missiles.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Cage Man
259
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 00:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arther Risalo wrote:Cage Man wrote:I would suggest aiming for a rattlesnake. Don't have a passive fit handy, but it does it really well and has a nice big drone bay so if you loose a few you will have extra's. Not sure how you feel about drones though. Also can fit the high with a RR to rep the sentries.
In the short term till you get your skills and isk up use a gila, also a drone boat.
If you not into drones then maybe a drake then tengu. DPS will be lower than an active tanked ship, but you will survive.
You can also make an active tanked scorpion that is cap stable, and as long as you not doing missions that have neuting/nosing you will be OK.
Unfortunately at work so no fits handy. So maybe domi > gila > scorp/rattle?
Gila, RS and navy scorp are all shield tankers.. so a domi is not in the path, besides it using drones.
I would suggest starting with a caracal with light missile launchers for lvl1 - lv2 and maybe even lvl3's. This will give you time to get your skills and isk up. Switch to the gila when you you can use T2 light and medium drones, and some sentry drone skills and have both cruisers to 4, and off course the isk.
The thick plottens... |
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Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
209
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Posted - 2013.09.13 00:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:
I would suggest starting with a caracal with rapid light missile launchers for lvl1 - lv2 and maybe even lvl3's. This will give you time to get your skills and isk up. Switch to the gila when you you can use T2 light and medium drones, and some sentry drone skills and have both cruisers to 4, and off course the isk.
edited for clarificaton, Cage Man knows his stuff, I would follow his recommendation |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
249
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 05:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arther Risalo wrote:Hi all. I'm a PvE player interested in doing missions, but I have a rl disability that affects my motor control. Because of this, I'm nervous about losing ships. Could you guys suggest a possible passive tank route as far as ships go for me? Thanks
I have no motor control disabilities and I've managed to lose ships in L4s.
If your motor skills are really bad and if causes you to take a long time to do individual actions, I would choose to turn on your tank before you enter the mission, click in space to pick a direction, trigger a micro jump drive (for a battleship in level 4s at anyrate) once you get into a pocket, and then you have a considerable amount of time to lock and kill things, without having to do really bad things to your ship fit like go cap stable or dual rep (overtanking hurts mission running by preventing you fitting enough damage mods or applied damage mods to complete a mission quickly).
You may need to lock, select and shoot up to 60 NPCs per mission too btw, and being further away will mean that which target you select may be less critical because it won't immediately get under tracking if its small anyway. |
Frank Pannon
Jade Pork Assasins
70
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 08:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Not knowing the nature of your disability I wonder if we should look at this question from the tank or the gank side. Maybe it not so important how defend yourself, but how you can apply damage?
I think if you go down the passive tank line, it would steer you towards shield, and probably drones. You would get into a passive shield fit Gila / Myrmidon, than a Rattlesnake. But between the Myrm and the Rattlesnake you would go for a Dominix, which you would armor tank probably, with 2 large armor reps. This is not passive, but the contrary, a constant active rep, suboptimal, and would require you to train armor aswell. The problem with drones is that they require constant attention, you need to deploy them, assign to a target, recall if targeted. I do not know if you can handle that comfortably.
Missiles seem very forgiving in this aspect, and there are also hulls which should enalbe you a more "streamlined" training. By this I mean you could focus on shield and your missile skills, avoiding armor. You could start with a Kestrel for lvl 1, than a Caracal for lvl 2s, than get into a Drake (has a very good passive fit) for lvl 3s.
Once you are at lvl 4s, you will look at battleships, and they are the only hulls that can fit the so called micro jump drive module. This "teleports" you forward 100 km, enabling you to get out of hairy situations (every 3 minutes). Mind you, this only works in PVE since they do not scram you, only disrupt. This way you could even complete missions in a buffer tanked Raven.
Hope this helps. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1445
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 08:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
The navy scorpion has a beastly tank. It's not quite as beefy as a rattlesnake but still more than strong enough for lvl4s. in contrast to the rattlesnake, you do not need to control two weapon systems at the same time, you only need a set of light drones to deal with orbiting frigates.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel
Templis Dragonaors
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 08:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Another note in the Navy Scorpion's favor is that it isn't functionally rendered immobile by its primary weapon system, and its primary weapon system isn't nearly as vulnerable. So long as you're largely intact and you haven't overheated your launchers into uselessness, the Navy Scorpion can keep firing missiles; if a Rattlesnake loses its sentry drones (unlikely if you're paying close attention, but distractions are always a hazard), then however strong its tank may be, it's effectively useless, because its firepower is gone.
BUT--
That's a long-term goal. A Scorpion Navy Issue, at the moment, costs over 400 million ISK for the hull alone, and fitting and rigging can easily top 50 million for Tech II defenses and decent offensive power. As suggested above, a good intermediate goal would be the Drake, which shares the Navy Scorpion's resist bonuses and can thus mount a passive shield tank like a brick wall. A Drake in Level 3 missions will give you a decent idea of how to manage the hostiles, and you can get practice with using your drones as secondary weapons to take down NPC tacklers. (The Drake can use heavy missiles on tacklers, which won't be as viable an option for battleships, as cruise missiles and especially torpedoes are lousy weapons against frigates due to large explosion radius and slow explosion velocity.)
"Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..."
- Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
3389
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 09:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Drones require more mousing and clicking than missiles, which are the easiest weapon system in game to manage.
. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
363
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 12:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Roime wrote:Drones require more mousing and clicking than missiles, which are the easiest weapon system in game to manage.
I found hotkeying attack and recall to bay enough for it not to be too onerous.
@OP I would strongly advise overtanking, either passively or cap stable active. It's something that's always on, always there, never needs action in a timely fashion; it's about as 'safe' as one can be. |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights
PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
264
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Domi + MJD? |
Vlalaan Osten
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Also, make sure you know what you're getting into before warping into a mission. This isn't just about knowing the damage type enemies deal, and the damage type to use, but also about mission "triggers" that cause more ships to spawn when destroyed/fired upon, which groups of ships in pocket will pull full pocket aggro, presence of warp scrambling frigates, jamming, and the like. These things tend to be the main cause of inadvertent ship losses in level 4s, as only a handful of missions have high incoming DPS right at warp-in.
EVE-Survival is a wonderful resource for this.
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=missionreports
|
Carek Talen
Another Corp.
12
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Try some missions with a corp mate, it is a safer (and less scarier) way to test if your ship is ready for L4. |
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dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
785
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 17:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
bloodknight2 wrote:Domi + MJD?
It's not a bad setup, unless you really want to fly a shield tanked missile ship, in which case most of the time you invest training for the sentry domi is wasted.
One good think about the domi is that you can fly it with most guns, you don't need to train hybrids, and most ships benefit atleast a little from the points you invest in drones. With no bonus to guns you can afford to go with 3 guns, which frees up a lot of resources making it very easy to fit in terms of cpu and powergrid.
Sentry drones don't benefit from a lot of the drone skills, making it much easier to get good sentry skills when you compare it to other battleship size weapons. The downside is there are a limited number of ships that make good sentry platform.
All in all the domi is a really good choice, and gallente battleship is needed for both the vindi and the mach which both are very popular mission boats. The main reason not to pick the domi would be is want to fly CNR or navy scorp, in which case the domi is a really bad choice.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Spankerz Trilvane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 11:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have recently bought a razer naga gaming mouse, which has 12 buttons which can accessed using your thumb, it also has (excluding the normal 2 buttons found on all mice, apart from those hateful Apple mice) a mouse wheel which can be clicked, and a further 2 buttons behind that, in total that makes 17 buttons, which in turn makes 17 hot-key commands.
It might be worth looking into if you havent done so already :) |
Cage Man
261
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 21:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
I did some tests on the test server this weekend with a passive Rattlesnake.. the fit below works pretty well. Just tank mission specific and it tanks pretty well. Use amplifier so if you do get capped out you don't die. The NOS is there as I found using the mwd between gates was handy, but recharge on a passive fit is dead slow, so the nos helps. I tried smart bombs.. but with their range limitation it wasn't great. Rapid lights with auto targeting missiles is not the optimal, but allows for easy management. Just note that they will shoot what ever is closest, so sometimes they shoot the buildings. You could just load normal missiles and target the frigs if you want. I never had to launch light drones :).
I used faction sentry drones for main dps. T2 work much better. Adjust as needed based on skill and comfort.
I tried it on all 4 factions. It is immune to EWAR so TD, damps, etc didn't stop it, maybe slower it down a bit. Shield recharges may work better.. didn't try them.
Hardest mission I managed to get was http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Blockade4br, mys shield hung around 15%, but I didn't worry about spawns. I did get dread scarlet amongst a dozen other, was very slow due to spawn ranges.
This fit is not the fastest at running missions, its built for easy management. Map a key to recall drones to make it easier.
You could also fit a shiled RR and rep the sentries if you want, but I never had to recall them. I tried to pop as many frigs as they came in as I could, garde's worked for this.
Also join helpmymission in game chat, lots of helpful people there who will happily come with you if you close to them..
As always.. try things yourself on the test server first... costs nothing. Both race BS is at 4.
[Rattlesnake, passive LvL4]
Heavy Nosferatu II_1
Drone Link Augmentor II_2
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher_2, Republic Fleet Nova Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher_2, Republic Fleet Nova Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher_2, Republic Fleet Nova Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher_2, Republic Fleet Nova Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Large Shield Extender II_2
Large Shield Extender II_2
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II_2
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II_2
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II_2
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I_1
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I_2
Shield Power Relay II_2
Shield Power Relay II_2
Shield Power Relay II_2
Drone Damage Amplifier II_2
Drone Damage Amplifier II_2
Drone Damage Amplifier II_2
Large Core Defense Field Purger I_2
Large Core Defense Field Purger I_2
Large Core Defense Field Purger I_2
The thick plottens... |
Cage Man
261
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 21:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have a 12 mil alt that uses the below fit. Also works OK. I switch the em for whatever race I am shooting at main damage type, ie switch the em for a kinetic when you in caldari space... sometimes :)
A small change to the fit and it gets me into incursion fleets also :)
Zaqq has now started making fitting vids, the one for a raven is pretty good for new players.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6YaOK3p-zs. Its almost cap stable, some implants and it should be.. just a cheaper option.
Enough babble from me.. gimme a shout if you need more help.
[Scorpion Navy Issue, Crabby new]
Cruise Missile Launcher II_2, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II_2, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II_2, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II_2, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II_2, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II_2, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Small Focused Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I_1, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet S
Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster_2
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II_2
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II_2
EM Ward Field II_2
Large Shield Extender II_2
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration_2
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration_2
Cap Recharger II_2
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System_2
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System_2
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System_2
Capacitor Flux Coil II_2
Ballistic Control System II_2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I_2
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II_2
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I_2
Hobgoblin II, 5i
Warrior II, 5i
The thick plottens... |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Pixel Navigators
144
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
I use a SNI fit similar to the one above on my mission alt and while you can't AFK it, the tank is such that you don't need super fast reflexes or anything. Depending on the nature of your disability you may be able to manage it ok, on a more demanding mission you would be looking at something along the lines of
Lots of incoming damage. You may hit 30 % shields within 60 seconds in extreme cases, if things look really bad you can MJD out to range anytime during this 60 seconds and be fine unless you're getting hit by guristas cruise missiles.
You need to tank damage which means activating your shield booster which runs for 5ish seconds so if you want to turn it off after one cycle you need to hit that button again within five seconds (we'll assume auto repeat is on because its easier to tank extreme damage). If you screw up and accidentally get an extra cycle, this won't cap you out or cause any real problems.
If you leave your tank running you may need to inject cap boosters. Again this is pretty forgiving and under extreme circumstances you're going to leave the cap and shield boosters both running for a full 4 charges, so it only needs your input to press two buttons, and then turn those modules off by pressing two buttons again 30 seconds later. This is under extreme incoming damage, in most cases your worry is going to be accidentally over injecting shield or cap which is inefficient but by no means dangerous to your ship.
So realistically, worst case scenario is that you need to activate two modules within 30 seconds when you notice you're taking too much damage, and then turn those two modules off 30 seconds later when you've boosted your shields back up and injected 4 cap charges. That's as demanding as it gets, so you would be able to answer whether that is manageable for your abilities. The Navy Scorp is very forgiving in terms of tank and on most missions you can leave the computer to grab a drink or answer the door while tanking damage and not have to stress about it. The "max DPS incoming" is only on a few missions, and if you're fighting Serpentis you can obliterate them from range while taking almost no damage at all. |
noXza
Ubiquitous Hurt
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 21:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have a brother who is disabled.
He only does missions and trading so i guess advices and experiences from him will fit you aswell.
He started out in a kestrel, went to a caracal, then drake, then tengu.
All but the drake were active tanked, so he went for capacitor skills early on, got a faction shield booster when he could.
What really helped him though was the he got a "one hand" keyboard, dunno what to call it, but basicially he got all the keys he ever needs on his left hand, and his mouse in his right.
just my 2c |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 22:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
noXza wrote:I have a brother who is disabled.
What really helped him though was the he got a "one hand" keyboard, dunno what to call it, but basicially he got all the keys he ever needs on his left hand, and his mouse in his right.
http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-nostromo/
It's sold at most stores that sell keyboards and mice |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
200
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 22:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gila
Navy scorp
Rattlesnake.
Make sure you hot key.
Example:
F1 missiles F2 Drones engage F3 Return drones to bay F4 Reload.
Depending on your disability drones may or may not be an option.
You can cap stable an active tank and do well. Just run a large instead of X-L on a BS size ship.
It will lose some mids and damage landing ability but will keep you going. (( Navy scorp is a good ship for this ))
If you can deal with drones and don't want to risk a big loss you might be interested in the old school afk - domi fits.
2 large reps with 4 active hardners. One drone damage upgrade.
Use a prop mod and the other mid/rigs for cap and tank for cap and only carry 1 gun for getting the aggro when you first enter.
Just make sure it's cap stable with both reps running.
Highs can have tractor beam / salvager / Nos / drone upgrade.
Good luck. |
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 10:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Full passive shield tanks for L4 missions are very thin on the ground.
I suggest using something like a dual armour rep cap stable Dominix. It should be able to soak up just about anything a L4 mission can throw at it without dying horribly. |
Fia Magrath
The Clown Inquisition
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'd say rattlesnake is the obvious answer here, its even got a stepping stone (gila). A passive RS can take on lvl 5's(ok not very isk/hr efficient but still) to which in comparison lvl 4's are a joke. |
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