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Brainstorm: How to make Eve bigger then WoW ?

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supernova ranger The End of Eternity Ad-Astra 60	Posted - 2013.09.13 04:16:00 - [1] - Quote Including the player base from dust + Eve + possible Valkyrie Assume that it is possible when answering. How does one do this? What would eve need? What should eve not do to achieve this? I have thoughts but ill leave then till later if this thread gets any traction... For the moment I'm just curious as to what people think about it atm.
Elizabeth Aideron GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2013.09.13 04:18:00 - [2] - Quote Have CCP build a time machine and create WoW before Blizzard.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 1512	Posted - 2013.09.13 04:39:00 - [3] - Quote It could be done, but it would involve doing thing that would cause a massive change of the player base. It would probably go from long term players to short term players. And could ultimately cause CCP to go out. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 230	Posted - 2013.09.13 04:46:00 - [4] - Quote Elizabeth Aideron wrote: Have CCP build a time machine and create WoW before Blizzard. this.... Eve does not cater to all mmo players. Open pvp servers in most mmo's to include wow not exactly max capacity. Not a bust on wow or people who only like pvp per se...people like what they like, blizzard gives em what they want and both live happily ever after.
Pertuabo Enkidgan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 44	Posted - 2013.09.13 04:59:00 - [5] - Quote Why would you want to make it bigger than WoW? She's fine as she is, I don't want it bigger than WoW, it doesn't need to be either. No brainstorm needed.
supernova ranger The End of Eternity Ad-Astra 60	Posted - 2013.09.13 05:37:00 - [6] - Quote well the larger the player base the greater the income and like wise the larger the budget, I would hope that'd accelerate eve evolution?
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 415	Posted - 2013.09.13 05:57:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: Brainstorm: How to make Eve bigger then WoW ? You don't want to do that. WoW was at its best in its early years when it had a far lower population size (up to about 2009). Even then, though, it was a completely different genre of game, a so-called "themepark MMO", which attracts short-term, but requires constant upgrades to keep fresh. Meanwhile, EVE is a sandbox, which usually doesn't attract masses as it has no clear goal, but due to player generated content tends to keep fresh constantly. Just because EVE has less players, it doesn't mean it's a worse game. I mean, there's far more people driving a Skoda than a Porsche, right? Does that make Skoda a superior car brand?
Alirissa Arji Ardea Technologies 4	Posted - 2013.09.13 07:47:00 - [8] - Quote While I agree that it would be nice to see some more new ~~fodder~~ pilots, I think that if it becomes too many, it will be too much... There is a delicate balance between great gameplay and large player base. One game that had it right at one point. Star Wars Galaxies, tried to pull in to "WoW crowd" ended up killing the game, undergoing such extreme changes that it became a different game entirely...I'd much MUCH rather not see that happen to eve too. In order to pull in more people, you need to make eve user friendly for unintelligent people. As it stands right now, a lot of the "problem" bunch are weeded out due to the games intricate complexity... To a new player, or the misinformed player, Eve is a Dry game, boring, and are the image of spreadsheets with fancy graphics. While in some ways, they are correct, it isn't that bad. The thing about eve, is that starting solo? Its almost unheard of. You pull in friends, and they enjoy the game more, because they get to participate in the group aspect. For the solo player, the "Hardcore" mode of loosing your ship, active scams that instill a fear to trust, it just isn't easy to get into eve. With a group, you have someone you can trust not to back stab you. The best way to get new people is by word of mouth, giving them trials, and ACTUALLY involve them in activities. Word of mouth has always been the greatest form of advertisement, and group outings improve morale as well as allow small corporations to grow. At any rate, Don't fix what isn't broken. Lest you break it.
Lephia DeGrande Luxembourg Space Union 131	Posted - 2013.09.13 08:54:00 - [9] - Quote BTW. Does any other MMO exist with time based Skill System?
Demica Diaz The Scope Gallente Federation 73	Posted - 2013.09.13 09:54:00 - [10] - Quote I do not think it is possible anymore. Even if you come up with EVE 2 with all modern mmo quality of life features, mmo genre in itself seems to be losing its grasp. Atm MOBA games seem to be pulling people with quite staggering numbers: "As of July 2013, LoL had 32 million active monthly users and Dota 2 had 4.8 million active monthly players, while Heroes of Newerth had 2 million.". 32 million LoLers, I dont think Blizzard reached even half way to that with "most popular and successful mmo of all time.". Unless CCP comes with totally new, drasting and mindblowing concept of mmo genre that is never seen before, I dont think it will pass over WoW player base. Not because of game but because genre is becoming bit "meh". PS: and no, I think EVE is only mmo with time based skill learning.
CorsairV Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 3	Posted - 2013.09.13 10:43:00 - [11] - Quote Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote: Why would you want to make it bigger than WoW? She's fine as she is, I don't want it bigger than WoW, it doesn't need to be either. No brainstorm needed. More poeple to scam, obviously. And even I could probably scam a WoW player.
Mascha Tzash Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 96	Posted - 2013.09.13 11:55:00 - [12] - Quote The fact eve beeing a sandbox does not appeal to anyone. I experience it myself from time to time, that I just want to sit back and get entertained by some story I play trough. This turns out really realxing to me flinging some fireballs or putting virtual bullets trough some pixelheads. Luckily eve is a game you can set asside for some time and try new things and you don't really fall behind. You just pause. I wouldn't like to have it any other way.
Yaturi The Scope Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:08:00 - [13] - Quote I'm just worried that with an influx of Wow players the amount of petitions, complaints, and outright rage quitting will sway CCP into adopting a more lenient carebear mentality. A mentality that will evolve into the death of non consensual pvp, the basis of what make this game great in my opinion.
HTC NecoSino TriFlexure Void-Legion 30	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:42:00 - [14] - Quote We could always create the air of a WoW-friendly universe. Maybe even give them a challenge mission to Old-Man-Star to re-live the struggles of Darieux (read more). I'm sure that many would love that :)
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 318	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:48:00 - [15] - Quote Yeah would need to make the game more cuddly and new player friendly and more (and more immersive) storyline content. Then you need stuff thats more like raids and so on a much bigger player v NPC scene - forget about incursions they don't even come close to what would be needed in that regard. Personally not totally against increasing the player v NPC content for groups tho - even tho its somewhat against what Eve traditionally has been. Turning a whole region over to hostile NPC control permanently (NPC gate camps, etc.) with lots of missions in that region so people could run PVE fleets through it (if anyones played city of heroes think the hollows and frostfire story arc, etc.). That kind of stuff would pull a lot of players in.
Mole Guy Xoth Inc 362	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:53:00 - [16] - Quote eve only has 35 players all with 500 accounts each..lol to be bigger than wow, we would need to get rid of having to "earn" money, get rid of loosing ships from pvp and make it towhere its more a game and not a simulation. at that point, i would stop playing.. =\
Little Dragon Khamez Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition 375	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:14:00 - [17] - Quote best leave Eve as it is, it's successful because it does not have mass market appeal. In order to get mass market appeal you'd have to implement silly ideas such as consensual only pvp and complete replacement of all of your isk and ships whenever your got destroyed in space. This would fundamentally damage eve beyond all recognition. Not everyone is cut out for : 1. The complexity 2. The casual brutality 3. The Losses of ships, isk, materials 4. Other people being able to not only foil your plans, but ruin them completely. I'd add to that, that not all gamers are capable of existing in a universe that doesn't give a rats arse whether they live or die, succeed or fail, prosper or struggle etc. I love my eve, because of all of the above. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Amarisen Gream Methana Solutions 1	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:53:00 - [18] - Quote I would say, it would be nice to see EVE say with an online total running more like 50-75k verse the current 20-35k players. WoW at its Hight had like 13 million accounts. And from the short time I've been in the EVE world. that many people on one server would really cause some cramps. And us ladies DO NOT like cramps. :D CCP could do a few minor changes (possible lose of short term $) that allow players to do more. Like drop the duel skilling system via plex. open it up, so u can skill all three characters per account. and add in some nice UI character swapping features. So u can easily Play one toon, and swap to the next for things like mining or mission running. But not so useful for say pvp or fleet wars. This would in effect allow each player to increase their production or mission running abilities which then turn into, increases amount of isk coming into player hands, which should increase the over all economy in EVE. More people with more ability to craft, mine, farm what. Though some say that with more production you over run the whole Supply and Demand of economy, but I think promoting the ability to not be limited to only one toon at a time would draw people in. More people for gankers to bank. More people to buy things as well as sell things. It would all take work. EVE would never run well with more than 100.000 on at a time, unless the world was expanded, in such a way that it would double or triple the size of EVE. To many people makes High sec to crowed, which then pushes more people in to low and null sec which then just ripples into all kinds of problems. But anyway. CCP will decide. And I like the more open PVP of EVE. WoW open pvp servers sucked b/c u had people who where way more powerful tea bag'n u all day long. At least in EVE u die, and normally the jerk moves on to other fun fish bait :D xoxo Amarisen Gream
Warcalibre FDA Shipwrights 88	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:49:00 - [19] - Quote If WoW is a model for growing a playerbase, then CCP should make EVE completely braindead.
Vexed Nova FDA Shipwrights 15	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:08:00 - [20] - Quote Lephia DeGrande wrote: BTW. Does any other MMO exist with time based Skill System? I don't know if it still exists, but there was one called Perpetuum. I think it used a similar engine to EVE If at first you don't succeed, skydiving was not for you. Check out the Industrialist, a monthy industrial news letter. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3323691#post3323691 July Issue: http://bit.ly/1fgP9GT - August Issue: http://bit.ly/18irYrV
brinelan The Flying Dead Insidious Empire 96	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:27:00 - [21] - Quote supernova ranger wrote: Including the player base from dust + Eve + possible Valkyrie Assume that it is possible when answering. How does one do this? What would eve need? What should eve not do to achieve this? I have thoughts but ill leave then till later if this thread gets any traction... For the moment I'm just curious as to what people think about it atm. You would need to get rid of everything that eve is.. the long term goals, nonconsentual pvp, concord being reactionary etc and make it a themepark pve game, which of course would drive out just about every current player. Nothing would explode so the industrialists and marketeers would not have a reason to play and eve would die. So ya, wow is wow and eve is eve. Please do not make one in to the other. SOE tried that with SWG and look where it got them.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 231	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:50:00 - [22] - Quote supernova ranger wrote: well the larger the player base the greater the income and like wise the larger the budget, I would hope that'd accelerate eve evolution? That's not how niche games work. they collect players looking for something they can't find elsewhere. Many eve players make their home hear because ccp does not pander to common interests. We can get that in many other games. To get bigger than wow eve wuld have to steal players from wow or appeal to people who like the wow concept. Generally when games do this it backfires. many games at some point went to varying levels of wow clone to draw in players....and their ship did not come in. These be the vast numbers of f2p with MT/p2w who instead of consistent the $15 a month they made at release and now hope enough p2w to cover the freeloaders expenses to keep up the game servers and such..
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor 2711	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:55:00 - [23] - Quote To attract the type of player like the ones WoW has, it is not difficult. At least, not difficult to explain. You need to give them the candy that attracts them, and keeps them coming back. WoW has an art style, to begin with, that exaggerates physical qualities. Armor and weapons, along with other gear, are all thicker and more cumbersome, while at the same time apparently very light. The stuff is either costume style styrofoam, or all made in a place where object density is far less. (Ever see the armor plates? If those were made from comparable metals on earth they would be too heavy to move around with, let alone enter combat with) Why is this art style a factor? It lets the player detach themselves from reality, and immerse themselves in the game more fully. Nothing in reality matches a game item well enough to be a reminder that it is a game. It needs boots on the ground. Keep the space side of EVE unchanged, but let people go down to the planet surfaces in Empire space, for their theme park experiences. Want to travel to a different world? Invest in a clone, and have a pilot travel it to the destination. If the clone is lost in transit, the original is still intact and unharmed. Items could be purchased at the destination, not needing to be carried or risked unless that was deliberately wanted. Why could this be interesting? The planet's theme park nature can be deliberate. We can have fantasy worlds, cheesey sci-fi worlds inspired by various stories, horror themed worlds, you name it. And the pilots link them all together, as well as have the option to visit them as well. EVE could obsolete every other game MMO, doing this the right way. We have all these worlds already. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
supernova ranger The End of Eternity Ad-Astra 63	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:31:00 - [24] - Quote I didn't say I wanted WoW players in particluar, I just wanted more players in general... I never have and never will play WoW for a reason (not saying I have anything against those that do) I want ccp to get more money because if they had more, they could do more so that maybe some of the features in the idea generation stage comes out in 9 years instead of 10 :P I'm thinking turn based strategy game or online trading cards... Geez, if something like pogs can take off - there must be something "silly" or even somewhat serious that Eve can do to pull a profit... Besides, every endeavor they take serves as advertisement to draw in a bigger crowd... especially if you start interfacing with stores like walmart, bestbuy, shoppers exc. (im in Canada)
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor 2711	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:43:00 - [25] - Quote supernova ranger wrote: I didn't say I wanted WoW players in particluar, I just wanted more players in general... I never have and never will play WoW for a reason (not saying I have anything against those that do) I want ccp to get more money because if they had more, they could do more so that maybe some of the features in the idea generation stage comes out in 9 years instead of 10 :P I'm thinking turn based strategy game or online trading cards... Geez, if something like pogs can take off - there must be something "silly" or even somewhat serious that Eve can do to pull a profit... Besides, every endeavor they take serves as advertisement to draw in a bigger crowd... especially if you start interfacing with stores like walmart, bestbuy, shoppers exc. (im in Canada) I certainly did not say wow players specifically either. But that type of player is both social, as well as seeking to escape reality, and EVE is not as strong on either front. EVE has more in common with remote controlled toys than social gaming, for the most part. Heck, these forums are the most social aspect of EVE. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Phaade Debitum Naturae 104	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:49:00 - [26] - Quote Demica Diaz wrote: I do not think it is possible anymore. Even if you come up with EVE 2 with all modern mmo quality of life features, mmo genre in itself seems to be losing its grasp. Atm MOBA games seem to be pulling people with quite staggering numbers: "As of July 2013, LoL had 32 million active monthly users and Dota 2 had 4.8 million active monthly players, while Heroes of Newerth had 2 million.". 32 million LoLers, I dont think Blizzard reached even half way to that with "most popular and successful mmo of all time.". Unless CCP comes with totally new, drasting and mindblowing concept of mmo genre that is never seen before, I dont think it will pass over WoW player base. Not because of game but because genre is becoming bit "meh". PS: and no, I think EVE is only mmo with time based skill learning. LOL = league of legends? 32 million people play that garbage? LOL See what I did there?
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 481	Posted - 2013.09.13 20:27:00 - [27] - Quote supernova ranger wrote: well the larger the player base the greater the income and like wise the larger the budget, I would hope that'd accelerate eve evolution? so they can spend more money on a game that we DONT like? yeah sounds a good trade... next eve expansion would be Clusters of Pandoria with ******** black white panda looking ships which all are superior to the current ones thx but no
Shalua Rui Rui Freelance Mining 20799	Posted - 2013.09.13 20:32:00 - [28] - Quote Hm... live longer then WoW (will be done soon... ish ), make WiS happen, include DUST and Valkyrie all into one unified game... make that game VR capable... AND do all that in next 10 years! ...easy, really. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM) Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor 2719	Posted - 2013.09.13 20:38:00 - [29] - Quote Naomi Knight wrote: supernova ranger wrote: well the larger the player base the greater the income and like wise the larger the budget, I would hope that'd accelerate eve evolution? so they can spend more money on a game that we DONT like? yeah sounds a good trade... next eve expansion would be Clusters of Pandoria with ******** black white panda looking ships which all are superior to the current ones thx but no Learning from the mistakes of others is a quality we should be seeking, especially with what you pointed out. I shudder to consider how many mistakes fantasy mmos have inflicted, just for short term profits.... Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Maximus Andendare Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 539	Posted - 2013.09.13 20:55:00 - [30] - Quote Mole Guy wrote: to be bigger than wow, we would need to get rid of having to "earn" money, get rid of loosing ships from pvp and make it towhere its more a game and not a simulation. This is sort of the point of it right here. If Eve were to grow as large as Wow, CCP would be saddled with problems Blizzard faced and is facing now: namely, their player base grew because Blizzard started catering toward "casual" players, which is just another way of saying players who aren't really invested in the game and who will take the necessary steps to grow (as players) and master the game. So, as the numbers surged with these "casuals," Blizzard became beholden to them, crying out for ever more easy-mode ways to play, and Blizzard was happy--obliged to respond in kind--so they wouldn't lose all these "casuals" who really didn't want to stick around for the game if it wasn't "easy-mode." So what do you end up today with, then? A Wow that is five million--FIVE MILLION--subscribers down from its height during Wow's Wrath of the Lich King expansion. It's latest expansion introduced a Blizzard-themed Pokemon and playable Panda bears. Blizzard, wanting to hang on to its dwindling player base of "easy-or-flee" "casuals" introduced a game mode that automatically groups you with 24 other "casual" players so that you could still "kill the dragon" but where you essentially could be the worst player and still get carried along and "succeed" in fights. Of the 25 players required, it only takes about 10 to carry the raid, and you can "stand in the fire" or otherwise have very, VERY little situational awareness and skill at the game and still "succeed" and be handed your "epic" loot. What's more, all the casual-pandering game modes introduced utterly and completely stripped the social aspect of the game. Players no longer have to even communicate with one another, nevermind having the "chore" to seek out others to group up with, form guilds, and foster friendships. There's little travel in the "world of Azeroth" anymore, too, as what was once required if you wished to enter a dungeon somewhere in the world--to define it and shape it as an actual virtual world--is replaced by instant travel of you and your 24 random "friends" to the dungeon so you can, again, "kill the dragon." The side effects of this: the hardcore players--the very ones who stuck around to build Wow--were marginalized as the voices of the "casual" crowd grew. Hardcore players, indeed many a typical player of Eve, enjoy challenge and adversity, overcoming it and being justly rewarded. In Eve, it comes from deception, piloting skill, fitting knowledge, game mechanic understanding, etc. But a typical "casual" doesn't want to do any of this. They want to click "join Incursion" or "Faction Warfare battle" and it happens. They want very little risk of their assets actually blowing up, since if that's the case, they may as well leave, instead of being rewarded for their skill. Entitlement sentiment runs rampant on Blizzard's forums. And in response, Blizzard's community managers push out the company-line "spin" for the masses to devour. Hardcore players are silenced by backlash and QQ if they suggest keeping a feature that defined Wow, such as rewarding the best players with the best gear or best achievements. Casuals think that simply by paying for the game, they're entitled to everything the game has to offer, regardless of skill level or understanding of it. I'm not sure when gamers became this way, since I played games that required actual skill to succeed at and see the end, "beat" the game and feel a sense of accomplishment. If Eve were to grow like Wow, we the players would lose our voice and our power to shape the universe the way us (typically hardcore) players want it. The 500,000 of us would be supplanted by 9.5 million "casuals" who'd want high sec to be a place where it would be impossible for any loss. Weapons would be disabled in high sec, since when you live in peace, there's no need for weapons, am I right? I'm sure that desire to "see the game" would eventually spill over into null sec, and casuals would demand a way to "see" null sec, too, since "why should only null sec get the best sanctums or asteroids?" Pvp would move into some sort of consensual monster, where someone would have to stay in nullsec for an hour or so before they became a "valid" target. Eve would be put on easy mode, and CCP would rake in the profits Blizzard has seen, yes, but at the cost of their souls. I'd much rather a smaller Eve with a more responsive Dev team. I'd take a Dev team that's real and honest; a team that will tell us how it is, show their emotion, and sometimes say too much. That sort of Dev team shows me that they're passionate about their product, and they want the best for it. That shows me a Dev team that still dreams of what can be and works to make it happen. And I'll take a smaller player base of dedicated players wanting to keep the game the same as what all drew us in. The hardcore nature of Eve forced us to talk to others. It forced us to understand that our actions have consequence and meaning. We found corporations that took us in, showed us the ropes, and let us grow. We found corps that matched our play styles and corps that we shared our experiences with. When you're all in the same boat, the universe isn't nearly as scary as facing it alone, and that's the true success of Eve. And that's why I wouldn't change a thing. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<

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