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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16461
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Posted - 2013.09.13 12:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:WIDOW should be the highest, at 30%... well because 30% is well and truly enough... and ship classes should be scaled backwards from there. Ok. But then, of course, the Widow would have to lose its cruise and torp bonuses, its cloaking ability, its jump and bridging ability, and no longer be classified as a battleshipGǪ
GǪor maybe it's not actually a case of the kind of linear progression you think it is. Maybe the Falcon is supposed to be at the top at the jamming game because that's its entire purpose?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
2775
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Posted - 2013.09.13 12:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
The thread is an example of the fact that no amount of nerfing is good enough to some people unless the thing nerfed becomes less than useless. CCP already fixed the Falcon to be less overwhelming than it was, before they did the game was literally Falcons Online lol.
I don't know which gets more crying from small gang pvp types, Falcons or Logistics. It's like they haven't learned that you can *gasp* bring your own falcons and or logistics. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising
Gentlemen's Agreement
63
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Posted - 2013.09.13 12:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dring Dingle wrote:WIDOW should be the highest, at 30%... well because 30% is well and truly enough... and ship classes should be scaled backwards from there. Ok. But then, of course, the Widow would have to lose its cruise and torp bonuses, its cloaking ability, its jump and bridging ability, and no longer be classified as a battleshipGǪ GǪor maybe it's not actually a case of the kind of linear progression you think it is. Maybe the Falcon is supposed to be at the top at the jamming game because that's its entire purpose?
While i am only referencing the "jamming skills" in my last post ..... and you are saying that the widow should loose its other ability's if it were to be king.......
Lets not forget all of the falcon's other traits...
*clears throat*
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
5% Bonus to Medium Hybrid Damage Per Level
10% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer capacitor use per level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus:
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level and 20% reduction in CPU need for cloaking devices per level.
Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
So arguably mr falcon isnt necessarily the final stage of progression either... I am just comparing the level of skill investment and, well... (left this out earlyier) the price tag of black ops. - theres a reason widow's / all blops for that matter are the No.1 bridgers. but lets not get too far off topic.
and btw - It is damn near impossible to fit a tank. torps/ crusie, ewar , damage mods, AND a bridging module on a widow. just like its very had to get the falcon to use all its skill buffs. So lets not get into a fitting arguement over (secondary) traits
I just dont believe the investment in skill training (and isk) of a falcon pilot should be any less than that of a widow for the same buff, on a clearly very powerful function...
o7
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16461
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Posted - 2013.09.13 12:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:While i am only referencing the "jamming skills" in my last post ..... and you are saying that the widow should loose its other ability's if it were to be king....... Actually, I'm saying one ship having a longer training time has no relation to its having a higher bonus in some particular area GÇö especially not when that area isn't even its main purpose.
Quote:So arguably mr falcon isnt necessarily the final stage of progression either. Except that it is. All recons are.
Quote:I just dont believe the investment in skill training (and isk) of a falcon pilot should be any less than that of a widow for the same buff, on a clearly very powerful function. Of course it should. It's a completely different ship with a completely different purpose, and the ISK isn't even a factor to begin with.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising
Gentlemen's Agreement
63
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 12:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:I just dont believe the investment in skill training (and isk) of a falcon pilot should be any less than that of a widow for the same buff, on a clearly very powerful function. Of course it should. It's a completely different ship with a completely different purpose, and the ISK isn't even a factor to begin with.[/quote]
.... LOL.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16461
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Posted - 2013.09.13 12:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:.... LOL.
Welcome to EVE, where bigger isn't better GÇö only bigger.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
1455
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 13:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
you lot forgot the rook, and griffin and the kitsune
the rook and the kitsune should prolly be better than the falcon :S |
Oswald Bolke
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2013.09.13 13:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think somebody is forgetting that no matter what you fly, somebody somewhere will have that one ship that will ruin your day.
hows about, if you see a falcon
get out |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
2721
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Posted - 2013.09.13 13:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Your name sake is the reason Scope is rising to success.
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1514
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Posted - 2013.09.13 14:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Allow me to translate CCP Falcon's response:
"We've decided to remove all ships that have any effect on the outcome of a fight because of incessant crying. Therefore, go forth in your pods and make war!"
A ship is only effective or it is not. We see this in attempt after attempt by CCP to rebalance ships. An effective ship is nerfed, another is buffed, and yet we still have ships that are effective and ships that aren't. The only things that really change is which ships are effective and which aren't.
The falcon has several counters......several....not singular. If you're unable to meet the falcon on the field then you're doing it wrong. Accept that and do what the rest of us do, turn around and run. Otherwise, if we're flying something that can counter the falcon or we've brought our own, then we fight.
This isn't a single player game where you're meant to win all the boss fights. Get over it.
Don't ban me, bro! |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
Solar Assault Fleet
635
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Posted - 2013.09.13 14:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nerf Falcons because of stronk!
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16463
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Posted - 2013.09.13 14:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:The falcon has several counters......several....not singular. Pff! You're saying that as if RSD ships had become a new ewar doctrine or as if we had just been given a ship that can trivially deliver 500 DPS of instant drone damage out to 130km while sporting 40+ sensor strengthGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
159
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Posted - 2013.09.13 14:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Falcon was allready nerfed several times (reduced range, introduction of skills for more sensorstrengh, etc.) and continues with the ship rebalancing. Sensorstrengh for ships rises with every balance pass.
And compared with other forms of Ewar like dampening and TD, you have at last a chance to resist it. If you have 2+ TD's on you with a turret ship, you will make nearly as much damage like if you get jammed by a falcon. But you still have your weapon icons flashing and some nice sound effects, so most people don't bother that much about it. But at the end of the day, the effect is the same, your ship explodes.
Leave the falcon alone, it allready got it's beating. Fit ECCM, adapt your tactics and / or get some friends. Than blow up his expensive Falcon. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
270
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Remove them? Naaah.... They need remodeling but all is good with them beside the looks.
New CQ prototype |
Johan March
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Falcons should be banned because they impersonate a bird; or CCP Falcon. Or CCP Falcon should be banned because he impersonates a ship, or a bird.
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Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
529
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
I love Falcons for two reasons, first is because of how many times they've saved me, and secondly for constant threads like this. 
I suggest you HTFU.
Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
195
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
John Holt wrote:Sounds like the case some had against the Drake. Now what is it? Useless.
No it's not useless. It's just no longer easy mode, so people like you jumped away looking for another easy mode ship. How's that working out for you. I wonder whether there are more Harbingers in service than Drakes even now.
Anyway, Falcons suck. But they have been indirectly nerfed. And Logistics need counters such at ECM and Damp boats. Unfortunately Falcons and the rest have to stay. However, can't remember which Deve it was, but he said they are working on a long term change to how ecm operates. Should be interesting. In the meantime train your sensor compensation skills to 5, get the sensor strength implants, have info boosts running, and fit an eccm. Then maybe you'll get jammed only 50% of the time.
But really just learn to live with it for now. It's not as bad as it used to be. |
ArmyOfMe
Teddybears.
Nocturnal Legion
166
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:It's ok, we love you and your namesake T2 cruiser.
errrr, no
Jaden Adoudel > If I knew where you'd live I'd ******* blow your head off
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SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
36
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
wowyouareacow wrote:They are extremely overpowered and ruin small gang and solo pvp.
Thank you for considering this request.
WHAT?!?! YOU HAVE ECCM!! CCP then nerfed the falcon range!! THEN THEY GAVE YOU ECCM SKILLS!! Why you no learn to counter falcon its paper thin tank and can't counter small frigs on its butt. You're just bad at pvp if you can't counter a Falcon.I fly the falcon I know your type fits 2 webs instead of eccm knowing they could be ecm on the field.Stop crying about it and try to counter the ship.
Blue
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3393
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
Knew that was coming when I saw the thread title. |
SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
36
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:you lot forgot the rook, and griffin and the kitsune
the rook and the kitsune should prolly be better than the falcon :S
Kitsune is fine I do well in it jamming out stuff just don't go GCC on a gate jamming bad idea.
Blue
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Isis Dea
Combat Cruise Control
43
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Posted - 2013.09.13 16:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
- FoF Missiles.
- WCS (because that Falcon won't have a scramble/disruptor and if in small-scale warfare, simply bail... Unless you want to protect your epeen? In which case, please, biomass yourself).
- ECCM (there's now skills for additional butter).
- ECM Burst (then warp out).
- Bring a buddy (clearly the Falcon's not solo either) in a missile boat w/FoFs or a drone boat with a small smart bomb [where he simply burns up to falcon, kick out drones and hits him with the smart bomb. If your drones are set to aggressive, they're automatically light up the falcon, who likely doesn't have a tank]).
- Sentry Drones (you'll have to deploy them after Falcon's buddy has jammed you but before ECMs land. If ECMs land, aggressive drones will automatically start firing on the falcon, who again typically doesn't have a tank).
Seriously, there are multiple counters. Stop insulting the IQ of EVE Online players and start fitting for a proper fight (one that can likely feature a falcon showing). |
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
6965
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Don't you love the people who post on the forums to get rid of ships that scare the wittle bitty daylights out of them.
I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!-á Now... where's Ken? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3521
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Posted - 2013.09.13 16:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
Such new and interesting ideas.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
2777
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
What rational people saw:
Isis Dea wrote:- FoF Missiles.
- WCS (because that Falcon won't have a scramble/disruptor and if in small-scale warfare, simply bail... Unless you want to protect your epeen? In which case, please, biomass yourself).
- ECCM (there's now skills for additional butter).
- ECM Burst (then warp out).
- Bring a buddy (clearly the Falcon's not solo either) in a missile boat w/FoFs or a drone boat with a small smart bomb [where he simply burns up to falcon, kick out drones and hits him with the smart bomb. If your drones are set to aggressive, they're automatically light up the falcon, who likely doesn't have a tank]).
- Sentry Drones (you'll have to deploy them after Falcon's buddy has jammed you but before ECMs land. If ECMs land, aggressive drones will automatically start firing on the falcon, who again typically doesn't have a tank).
Seriously, there are multiple counters. Stop insulting the IQ of EVE Online players and start fitting for a proper fight (one that can likely feature a falcon showing).
What the complainers saw:
Isis Dea wrote: Blah blah Blah BLah blaH EFFORT blah FORETHOUGHT bLah Blah blah |
Isis Dea
Combat Cruise Control
43
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Posted - 2013.09.13 16:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
I know people complain about drone mechanics but... want to be a ****? Take a Vexor Navy Issue, load up Garde IIs with a shi-boatload of tracking damage mods to drones, park them 20km off the inside of a FW complex. Sit on the entrance with a medium/small smart bomb, as people land, hit it, drones will AUTOMATICALLY go after them if on aggressive.
Want to be an uberdick? Fit two WCS to that same Vexor Navy. |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
wowyouareacow wrote:They are extremely overpowered and ruin small gang and solo pvp.
Thank you for considering this request.
I second this motion. |
Killian Redbeard
Mindhead Cosmic Conditioning
SoulWing Alliance
22
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Posted - 2013.09.13 16:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
BoSau Hotim wrote:Don't you love the people who post on the forums to get rid of ships that scare the wittle bitty daylights out of them.
Shuttles scare me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiR5Q72kT1U |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy
Caldari State
121
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Posted - 2013.09.13 16:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
wowyouareacow wrote:They are extremely overpowered and ruin small gang and solo pvp.
Thank you for considering this request.
In order to understand what is currently overpowered- one only needs to look at what the 0.0 power blocs run in nullsec. For a good 2 years it was drakefleet. Yeah that tank was amazing along with the damage projection of HM.
Currently it is drone-assist doctrines. Dominix, Ishtar, Gila, Slowcats. These ships in themselves are not overpowered but the drone-assist (250 people assisting drones to one guy with a target painter) is overpowered.
No one has ever run a Falcon fleet or even had more than a handful in any fleet. They are small gang force multipliers. |
Vrenth
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP
The Marmite Collective
44
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Posted - 2013.09.13 20:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
wowyouareacow wrote:They are extremely overpowered and ruin small gang and solo pvp.
Thank you for considering this request.
Please point to the place on this model Falcon ship that you couldn't touch, so we can further understand your insecurities. |
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