Human nature is too self destructive to operate for very long in a world without any rules.

EVE is not a sandbox. Go look at one, you'll notice it's a patch of dirt stretching from one end to the other. Nothing exists there that isn't built from the sandbox. Nothing gets put in besides more sand. Nothing gets changed but the sand which requires the efforts of those playing in the sandbox itself.

Now look at EVE, notice how things keep getting tossed in that aren't sand: FW, Incursions, SoV to name a few. A sandbox doesn't have an owner, you might have to deal with the bigger kids playing in"their" corner, but they can only enforce their authority by physical presence instead of having the adults lock everyone else out when they go home..

Look at how CCP changes things to keep their playerbase happy: supercap changes, aggro mechanics, NPC police that will at least make sure the big bullies picking on them lose the bucket they used to pour sand on another kiddie's head. I'm not saying these changes aren't/weren't necessary to keep the game going, but a sandbox environment would have forced the players to work together to deal with these types instead of relying on the game mechanics to be changed for them.

Is it any wonder there's so many threads about AFK cloakers that begin with suggestions on introducing new mechanics? Or for that matter, other complaint threads about can-flippers and ninja salvagers where the grieved party wants to see CONCORD blow up the offender instead of having to deal with the issue themselves and the giant 50+ man corp they joined? Or even the daily "I want to go AFK in highsec and not be bothered while I print ISK" complaints?

The last good sandbox-expansion was the wormhole one, and in fact it might be the only sand-box expansion simply because it did nothing but pour more sand into the box to be played with. People weren't even supposed to be living there, but they are and continue to do so. There are almost no NPCs, and by NPCS I mean not even Stargates and invulnerable stations to dock in and the NPCs that do exist there only give you more sand to build with (sleeper parts) instead of isk bounties.

I love this game, but it's not a sandbox.

Sandbox is basicly just a metaphor for non-linear gameplay and a sandbox game is one where you can do most of the activities and content available in any order you wish. Don't try to take the metaphor further than it's intended to go or the denition becomes largely useless for all practical purposes, since you can count all the games that your definition purely applies to with the fingers of your hand.

You shouldn't say "Oh, hisec should be gankable, or there's not enough risk". Meanwhile, the gankers have no risk at all, because they're using alts & being douchebags with Lvl4's.

That, and you don't know what a "Sandbox" is.

OP, you need to paint both sides of the fence before you can call it complete.

You shouldn't say "Oh, hisec should be gankable, or there's not enough risk". Meanwhile, the gankers have no risk at all, because they're using alts & being douchebags with Lvl4's.

That, and you don't know what a "Sandbox" is.

I still play in the sand. Building castles and stuff.

Sometimes a bully steps on it though, and sometimes the ocean throws a wave at me - causing me to start all over.

I love the beach.

/c

Why don't you go play minecraft or something?

the gankers have no risk at all

EVE is a sandbox still ?

let me list off the risks in ganking:

- flubbing the gank, losing a ship and having the target run off unscathed
- miscalculating due to an inaccurate ship scan
- wartargets
- "countergankers"

being able to mitigate risk and having an upper hand due to a superior understanding of game mechanics doesn't equate to "having no risk at all"

EVE is not a sandbox. Go look at one, you'll notice it's a patch of dirt stretching from one end to the other. Nothing exists there that isn't built from the sandbox. Nothing gets put in besides more sand. Nothing gets changed but the sand which requires the efforts of those playing in the sandbox itself.

Now look at EVE, notice how things keep getting tossed in that aren't sand: FW, Incursions, SoV to name a few. A sandbox doesn't have an owner, you might have to deal with the bigger kids playing in"their" corner, but they can only enforce their authority by physical presence instead of having the adults lock everyone else out when they go home..

Look at how CCP changes things to keep their playerbase happy: supercap changes, aggro mechanics, NPC police that will at least make sure the big bullies picking on them lose the bucket they used to pour sand on another kiddie's head. I'm not saying these changes aren't/weren't necessary to keep the game going, but a sandbox environment would have forced the players to work together to deal with these types instead of relying on the game mechanics to be changed for them.

Is it any wonder there's so many threads about AFK cloakers that begin with suggestions on introducing new mechanics? Or for that matter, other complaint threads about can-flippers and ninja salvagers where the grieved party wants to see CONCORD blow up the offender instead of having to deal with the issue themselves and the giant 50+ man corp they joined? Or even the daily "I want to go AFK in highsec and not be bothered while I print ISK" complaints?

The last good sandbox-expansion was the wormhole one, and in fact it might be the only sand-box expansion simply because it did nothing but pour more sand into the box to be played with. People weren't even supposed to be living there, but they are and continue to do so. There are almost no NPCs, and by NPCS I mean not even Stargates and invulnerable stations to dock in and the NPCs that do exist there only give you more sand to build with (sleeper parts) instead of isk bounties.

I love this game, but it's not a sandbox.

Why would you ask if EVE is still a Sandbox?

Are they introducing some form of mandatory Linear Game Play that I do not know about?

I mean your OP talks about Hi Sec PvP which has nothing to do with being a Sandbox.

let me list off the risks in ganking:

- flubbing the gank, losing a ship and having the target run off unscathed
- miscalculating due to an inaccurate ship scan
- wartargets
- "countergankers"

being able to mitigate risk and having an upper hand due to a superior understanding of game mechanics doesn't equate to "having no risk at all"

GǣThere is no risk because people are doing all of these things to avoid the risk.Gǥ Yeah, that makes senseGǪ

Hmm but the fence is up against the wall, a wall build after the fence went up, how can I paint the other side of the fence without taking it down and that seems way too much work.

A sandbox to me is something that allows choice within a box a box full of sand/options/tools a maleable material shaped and changed by everyone who uses the sand, I just do not want ccp to pour cement in to my sand box

The small risks are easily overcame by the smallest amounts of common sense.

Every sandbox has little wooden walls; "Doing whatever you want" is used within reason.

And yet, the victims choose to be victims instead of applying that common sense.
The problem is that some want to put up more, larger, stone walls, for no reason.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Hisec to be safe either (In fact, I wish Concord responded slower), but my main issue is that Ganking is a low-risk, high-reward occupation.... exactly what the people do not want. Ganking should have consequences, and benefits, proportional to its risks.

None of Eve does this atm.

Instead of adapting to challenges like the ones GSF bring and while maybe some small changes could be needed, it is the stone walls which go completely against the idea and context of EVE that I and hopefully others are against.

Nowhere in eve was ever suposed to be completely safe it just is not that kind of mmo.

I agree.

It's the miner's own damn fault for not being aligned at 75% speed, especially if they're mining in an ice field. Still, I wish ganking had a bit more investment needed, and a bit more forethought.