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Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
126
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Posted - 2013.09.16 18:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello. I wonder if CCP has a plan yet how to rebalance T2 Industrial ships. Now when cargohold of T1 haulers was basically brought in line with T2 haulers, it seems to me that T2 haulers are almost obsolate and their role very niche. The role bonuses are not in most cases just worth the additional 100 M ISK in price, especially when you can haul the same m3 with 100 times cheaper ship. What about making T2 haulers the ships between T1 haulers and freighters, as many players already request in various threads? Possibly adding them some specific ship hold to make them weaponless ship carriers, as was already mentioned in numerous threads.
tl;dr T2 haulers are very niche and need some more specific bonuses/roles ASAP. |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
374
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Posted - 2013.09.17 02:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP has said that they will re-balance all flyable ships. They just take them a few categories at a time. They just did T1 haulers, so my guess is they'll get around to T2 haulers in the summer expansion 2014, and that at that time they'll also have re-balanced all ship types, except maybe T3 cruisers, and capital ships, and shuttles (the later not really needing a re-balance). |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
215
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Posted - 2013.09.17 03:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Salpad wrote:CCP has said that they will re-balance all flyable ships. They just take them a few categories at a time. They just did T1 haulers, so my guess is they'll get around to T2 haulers in the summer expansion 2014, and that at that time they'll also have re-balanced all ship types, except maybe T3 cruisers, and capital ships, and shuttles (the later not really needing a re-balance).
Pretty much this.
Also T2 haulers aren't in a horrible place overall since one has a cloak, which is very useful, and the other can't be ship-scanned. Whether or not this is worth another 100m is entirely up to you.
I'm not saying they don't deserve a re-balance, just that I wouldn't expect them to suddenly haul more m3 than the T1s. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
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Posted - 2013.09.17 03:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Salpad wrote:CCP has said that they will re-balance all flyable ships. They just take them a few categories at a time. They just did T1 haulers, so my guess is they'll get around to T2 haulers in the summer expansion 2014, and that at that time they'll also have re-balanced all ship types, except maybe T3 cruisers, and capital ships, and shuttles (the later not really needing a re-balance). Pretty much this. Also T2 haulers aren't in a horrible place overall since one has a cloak, which is very useful, and the other can't be ship-scanned. Whether or not this is worth another 100m is entirely up to you. I'm not saying they don't deserve a re-balance, just that I wouldn't expect them to suddenly haul more m3 than the T1s.
I think it's the BR that is both cloaky and scan-immune (correct me if I'm wrong) but the DSTs do get giant holds and a massive tank and a WCS bonus, soo.... |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War Game 0f Tears
79
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Posted - 2013.09.17 03:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
What im getting from thia is that one type is for fleet work and the other is for solo work Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
215
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Posted - 2013.09.17 03:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I think it's the BR that is both cloaky and scan-immune (correct me if I'm wrong) but the DSTs do get giant holds and a massive tank and a WCS bonus, soo....
Huh, woops, my bad. I could have sworn the DSTs were the ones meant to be scan immune...
Either way though neither one hauls more than the T1 haulers do currently with the maxed out Deep Space Transports all capping out short of 40,000m3 and all having poor slot layout compared to the current T1 hulls. For example the Impel, the Amarr DST, has a 1/1/7 layout. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
646
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Posted - 2013.09.17 04:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:What im getting from thia is that one type is for fleet work and the other is for solo work
Really one is for solo work and the other is (was) for hauling a decent amount of stuff even though you spent your skillpoints on Caldari Indy 5 due to the superiority of the Crane, Charon, and Rhea.
Now that no race is stuck with a garbage T1 hauler I guess all DSTs are good for is making suicide ganks more costly, thus increasing the value of cargo you can carry in relative safety. The WCS bonus is alright, but you're a hauler, so you're just gonna get bump-tackled by anyone who knows what they're doing anyway.
Oh, and I guess Impels make decent bait ships. Giant tank, can fit a scram, encourages Cynabals to try and bump it. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
127
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Posted - 2013.09.17 13:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah, I know that CCP will probably get to them eventually. Just thought they might want to share some small info or so. Yes, the cloaky one is also the unscanable one. Deep space transports are in my opinion in much worse position than cov ops haulers. Their warp core strength wont save them in 0.0 and in low sec only rarely, as their align time is horrible and most gate camps can put out 3 points at a time anyway. I definitelly agree that their cargo issue and slot layout needs to be fixed. For example maxed skills all T2:
Impel: 39437 m3 Bestower: 44541 m3 Bustard: 31967 m3 Tayra: 41669 m3 Occator: 38664 m3 Iteron mk V: 33769 m3 Mastodon: 31841 m3 Mammoth: 32023 m3
...thats just few numbers which need to get fixed in my opinion. Note that there are more T1 haulers which can actually have better cargo etc, I am just too lazy to write it all. |
Kelmurdoch
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Insidious Empire
15
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zakarumit CZ wrote:Yeah, I know that CCP will probably get to them eventually. Just thought they might want to share some small info or so. Yes, the cloaky one is also the unscanable one. Deep space transports are in my opinion in much worse position than cov ops haulers. Their warp core strength wont save them in 0.0 and in low sec only rarely, as their align time is horrible and most gate camps can put out 3 points at a time anyway. I definitelly agree that their cargo issue and slot layout needs to be fixed. For example maxed skills all T2:
Impel: 39437 m3 Bestower: 44541 m3 Bustard: 31967 m3 Tayra: 41669 m3 Occator: 38664 m3 Iteron mk V: 33769 m3 Mastodon: 31841 m3 Mammoth: 32023 m3
...thats just few numbers which need to get fixed in my opinion. Note that there are more T1 haulers which can actually have better cargo etc, I am just too lazy to write it all.
I think DSTs should be given the same Interdiction Nullifier ability as the T3 cruiser part. Then, and only then, will they gain a role. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
127
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kelmurdoch wrote:Zakarumit CZ wrote:Yeah, I know that CCP will probably get to them eventually. Just thought they might want to share some small info or so. Yes, the cloaky one is also the unscanable one. Deep space transports are in my opinion in much worse position than cov ops haulers. Their warp core strength wont save them in 0.0 and in low sec only rarely, as their align time is horrible and most gate camps can put out 3 points at a time anyway. I definitelly agree that their cargo issue and slot layout needs to be fixed. For example maxed skills all T2:
Impel: 39437 m3 Bestower: 44541 m3 Bustard: 31967 m3 Tayra: 41669 m3 Occator: 38664 m3 Iteron mk V: 33769 m3 Mastodon: 31841 m3 Mammoth: 32023 m3
...thats just few numbers which need to get fixed in my opinion. Note that there are more T1 haulers which can actually have better cargo etc, I am just too lazy to write it all. I think DSTs should be given the same Interdiction Nullifier ability as the T3 cruiser part. Then, and only then, will they gain a role.
That sounds actually like a very good idea. Bubbles seem actually very overpowered to me in general, I think there should be some reasonable mechanism how to avoid them. RIght now moving throught 0.0 is very dangerous and time consuming and for many players also deadly. I think some special module, together with some skill and possibly some nasty formula taking into account various ship stats which all gives a chance to nullify bubble would be a good solution. So people can actually build ships which have very good chance to escape bubbles, when sacrificing basically everything else. Or to have some reasonable chance to escape from them while still being able to do a bit from other things. |
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Orakkus
Winds of Dawn Kraken.
179
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alot of this has already been discussed in the this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=274817&find=unread.
The big issue with the T2 Industrials, or rather the Deep Space Transport since most people agree that the Blockade Runner is pretty good as is, is that:
a.) Tech 1 Industrials carry more payload than the DSTs. Always have, and since Tiercide, these industrials not only haul more, but now some can haul large amounts of a particular cargo (Ammo, PI, minerals, Ore). This means no particular need to buy a DST for basic/specialized hauling.
b.) Tech 1 industrials are cheaper than DSTs. If you lose a Tech 1 industrial, you can easily go replace it. In addition, they require less training to build and manufacture. This means that it is far easier to get a tech 1 industrial than a DST, and it does a better job of doing it's purpose at 1/50th to 1/100th the price of a DST.
c.) A +2 Warp Strength and cruiser class tank isn't much of a defense against a gatecamp or warp bubble. True, it allows you to escape a single tackler, but with the slow align time, there is no way a DST could ever escape more than two ships on a gate. As such, it is often safer and far quicker to haul your cargo via Jump Freighter through low and null-sec. Since a tank really doesn't protect you if you can't escape, spending so much on a DST just isn't worth it since there is a high probability that you will either get caught by a gate camp, or pursued and captured by a fast tackle group long before you reach your destination.
The simple reality is that Deep Space Transports have no use that isn't facilitated cheaper, more effectively, or safer than another ship. All it is capable of doing is surviving a small high-sec gank and that is it. And that can be avoided anyways if you keep your head about you. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
127
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Posted - 2013.09.17 20:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
That is correct, I think you summed it up very well sir. Lets hope CCP is aware of those facts as well. |
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