I'll link this first because I covered it during my recent AMA: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1mtg38/iama_csm_amaa/ccck8ug

Unfortunately the short answer is that people are getting sick of wspace because it isn't providing challenges any more. The last great challenge was how to conduct combat as a coalition, but there is a lack of motivation to conquer others and non-pvp content continues to be stagnant in wspace. We've pretty much proven that once you're willing enough, you can break any wspace system in the game. The process is long and amazingly taxing on people; it really isn't fun. The fun came from trying something you weren't sure that was even possible. Well, it is possible, but it's so arduous that nobody wants to do it.

I do agree its painful and horrible to do but i don't agree that making it easier to evict people is the answer as it would just result in a lot less active systems if they have no protection at all.

I do love my old SSC/KILL blue donut though, keep blobbing them all.

In my old corp we were rolled into by SSC. They politley asked for a fight and we denied. The reason for this is that earlier we engaged them on the wormhole, trapping their fleet in so they lost the ability to escalate endlessly (what you call blobbing). The fleets was rather evenly, we fielding some BS and a archon for logi and they having 3 guardians and a decent t3 fleet. Some kills were made but basicly either fleet coudlnt break the logi of the other. However. By accident, or by batphone, KILL joined in on the fight doubling the numbers already fielded by SSC. Ofc we lost the fight at this point. But when SSC then rolled into us again we denied them because suiciding is only fun to a certain point and we knew they would outnumber us rather than loose.

Big bad meanies they are...

Personally, I'm not a fan of the three day siege of another group's hole. As stated before, it is just not fun. It honestly does just turn in to ganks. I'm not a fan of "fight us or get evicted". Having said that, if the alliance calls for us to help, we go help.

Suicide is the newest and smallest corp in KILL, and you are much more likely to find us nosing around for fights with 10 or less. Chances are, if you come across us, we won't have much for numbers, but we'll likely give you a fight. And we'll happily die to you as our name suggests.

(espaically that guy who ran for csm that was epic).

GÖÑ you too. We can discuss our failscade soonGäó

haha i was thinking about the guy who was running .... as a pure uni experiment or something that you guys invaded

Unfortunately the short answer is that people are getting sick of wspace because it isn't providing challenges any more.

No offence James but its not providing YOU a challenge because SSC is so big. Small and medium corporations get plenty(relative to larger corporations because people are more willing to fight small groups) of content and challenge because we cant always ensure victory by numbers.

@Bronya Boga

HK opened into us a few weeks ago and we were ready to give a fight but were very hesitant at the same time worrying of the "blob".

-Again. Misconception. WeGÇÖre all in different WHs. Unless youGÇÖre talkin about us being blobbers as individual corpsGǪ

I was rather disappointed to see HK joining KILL in all honestly, the pull of targets got just that much smaller for both enteties

-Why would our pool of targets be enough concern for you to be disappointed? That just seems oddGǪ

-KILL was once in a coalition and were the first to dip out of it because we truly do hate having a blue list. We only have one wspace blue and you all know who that is. WeGÇÖre always purging and adjusting our standings. IGÇÖm quite confident that NOHO, Pol., Dis., etc. have a longer list of blues than we do.

Im well aware you all live in separate wormholes but individually your corporations are much larger the lets say the "average" wormhole corporation. Not to say that you blob but im sure you can see my point here. And as far as me being disappointed in HK joining KILL is me caring for wspace to have a diversity of targets and when you take two,already large entities, and bring them under the same flag it helps no one. That said do as you wish its your alliance I was just expressing personal opinion.

That said I have a question for you all. At what point do you say "we have enough members to PVP in Bobs domains" after all the larger wormhole corporations start to roam into null more and more because of this?

@Cybus Max...

We invaded REPO to punish. Not for GFs. Also, when did it become our job to keep people up to date on our welps or incorporate it into our mantras? Go away. You're clearly an idiot and are misinformed.

You are sorely wrong.

Well I like the thread so far and it's seriousness, but when was the last time you brought a fightable fleet to another major WH alliance's doorstep?

In all seriousness, risk aversion is pretty relative. There's always someone more (or less) willing to fight. Don't worry about it though. My butt will stop hurting as soon as I go and cut myself.

I'm still confused as to how this takes away targets from anyone else. As for NS, we've dabbled in it even before our growth. Remember HBC?

We took a small T3 fleet with a lone dread into Polarized.'s wormhole, not too long ago. RFed a tower, all while begging for a fight in local. Does that count?

We took a small T3 fleet with a lone dread into Polarized.'s wormhole, not too long ago. RFed a tower, all while begging for a fight in local. Does that count?

Shots fired.

Wasn't talking about you, gah! Get over yourself.

We provided as many people as we could and rivaled other corps in their numbers. Just because we don't enjoy something, doesn't mean we don't attend. Come on man..

That said I have a question for you all. At what point do you say "we have enough members to PVP in Bobs domains" after all the larger wormhole corporations start to roam into null more and more because of this?

Polarized. have gradually lowered their numbers and switched their focus more onto nullsec ops lately. zKillboard shows less than half of isk destroyed/lost than the average WH group the last 3 months. I'd say no (no offence Polarized )

Edit - the average major wh group

Lol, we were literally talking about your disappointment with HK joining KILL, specifically. My bad. I must be deluded by that ego of mine.

Anyway, for a podcaster with a fairly big audience (I'm guessing), you're surely narrow-minded. I would have thought you folks would adopt some sort of journalistic integrity somewhere. Guess not. There are plenty of seats on the bandwagon.

Well I like the thread so far and it's seriousness, but when was the last time you brought a fightable fleet to another major WH alliance's doorstep?

As the standard John Q Wormholer, what are your thoughts on this?

Are the large entities who are still left dirty blobbers?

Are we vile trolls who are going to failscade in a few months. (everyone already knows that kill will failscade over a bottle of jack sooner or later)

Would you like to see your group of friends grow to the levels that the larger entities have?

Would you join one of the large entities if you were given the chance or if the group of friends who tie you down to where you are split up?

Or are you content with being the smaller entity you are now?

And for personal opinions about the major entiies and their practices. Do you think our "bring fights or get invaded" rule is BS or do you feel its fair.

Final question is in all honesty, when you roll into a major group that you arent blue to. And you have sufficient numbers on, what are your honest thoughts? Do you turn tail and run, do you hope that they didnt see you, or do you get scouts out there and start doing the numbers game trying to see if you can bring a fight?

I know the other major groups get that same smile that they always get. If you dont know the smile I am talking about, remember the last time you had a hole open up into providence... That smile.

As always whatever you do, do in the name of bob. All glory unto him and blood of the carebears given unto his majesty. He gives us loot and demands blood in return.

Ok, back on topic!

Yes, I enjoy the part where after being proven wrong you resort to pointless (attempted) insults ._.

I hate you all. AND **** EVE! But here a quick reality check back on the TOPIC ... CURSE YOU CURSED BRONYA.

I hate you all. AND **** EVE! But here a quick reality check back on the TOPIC ... CURSE YOU CURSED BRONYA.

But where shall I start.
Let's go back in History and see what we got ...

2 Years ago, Rooks and Kings v k162 (Xtrah: NoHo wasn't mentioned in the clarion call) were the really BAAAD Entities, if a C6 into C6 came on Scanner.
But beyond that the c5s where wildlands and not many had settled in the C5>C5 statics. But in the following 2 years alot more corps flurished and before you ask why? There is only one reason, well three but one stands out! Corp Bookmarks are the Holy Grail of Bob. With this simple implementation it was suddenly way easier to train new guys into scanning, also the "post/pre downtime signature identification" helped alot ... of course way before that a team of scientific super nerds laid out the foundation for the corps with Project Atlas. With more interest "even mapping" became more sufisticated, breeding the 2nd generation of Wormhole Mega Corps (SSC Kill, VoC, HK, Whale Grith, Polarized, Wormhole Kid and his scary wormhole people (lova ya EXOOO) and many more like the polish troopers from ash alliance... or even the germans which have their own blobb. So by now we have 3 key ingrediants in todays wormhole enviroment the "medium and small" corps are desperatly depending on...
and it's pathetic how some people think "there aren't any "good fights" ....

most problems of "good fights are because the connections happen off timezones" or are derived from "fear" (sorry guys low on numbers) or actually meeting off timezone... but who in their mind keeps an off timezone "megacorp" hole open to wait till everybody is ready till then they make your life miserable, there is also the natural distrust because its "hard to max out a 3b hole... (Max 3 Caps medium Subcap force) ..... although a GOOD C5 Escalition crew has always A FAIR CHANCE (3 - 4 dreads 2 archons 5-6 webbers) ... if you are lower on numbers then that you are doomed to fail at logistics and timedifferences anyway... or are here just for carebearing.... and will be strucken by the wrath of bob formally known as Blood Union.
Okay thats the mayor issue... also the problem of it getting popular to always bring caps to a fight ... which already scares people to jump into the home of a megacorp ... because hell ... sooooo maaaaannyy Caps... bringing in caps with the intend of crashing the hole could also be considered suicide (how about a budget pvp cap from that carebearing money gotta start somewhere to get cap expierence). But okay i know it suxx to loose a dread ... i heard singing helps sometimes or giving away the fitting... (Hey atleast you got the HULL :D)


So now we are approaching Winter 2013 and during the past year many corps reached something called "Critical Mass".
It's a state of active Members which can't be sustained by the home sites. So then some of those guys started going out doing Expos and later set up full blown gold mines, and of course shout out to the c5 normads. So these Mega Corps come in to new way of playing eve by sustaining multiple holes. Sure in reality its a dedicated team but still its from a Megacorp. So you can say they are claiming "Land". So while you have now a Sperm load of solid third generation Wormhole corps coming up, they want their own adventures and they will :) (goldenspoon fed) Because think about it small guys these mega corps need to balance their **** themself because who da **** wants to leave a friend behind because the enemy is complaining that you are blobbers... that's silly. A good run need admiration not "crude forum threads". Also there has always been groups splintering of mega corps/alliances taking a lot of knowledge with them.
And this is what its all about, the more knowledge comes into play in wormhole space the easier it gets.(Sometimes CCP helps too but thats mostly involuntary or TwoStep did it) Just sit tight and always be blood thirsty, Bobs plan is still not at its end, we are cavemen stepping into the light.

And for all the stick hugging non believers the TL:DR as Bob would say it

If you don't want to fight, don't fight and fear the consequences.
If one is outnumbered but safe in the field, ask for a meeting at the sun.
If one is caught with his intergalatic dreadnaught pants down farming, TAKE IT LIKE A MAN!
This how it has been and how it always will be.


2nd TL:DR
I m starting to hate Eve-Wspace and Siggy (The Mapping tools) for all what they did to help this forum decay, people should use txt files for sigs again, with all the bitterness we have in a region where you should actually shouldnt GIVE ANY FUKCS (shoutout to Sed and Sean the only
people i ever met that embraced that.)


3rd TL:DR
The amount of SOLO FIT Suggestions on this forum is to damn high, send the noobs to the hell they belong and we know as battleclinic fitting tool.

I think a very important question at the moment is - Why don't more people want to live in C6 wormholes?

Now a days it seems like the only people who we roll into are the leftovers from Talun or TL. Or we roll into the failed corps from polarized...

But the rest? Seriously. Does anyone have the ability to fight anymore? I mean I understand if you roll into us and you see that big ole scary KILL logo by our names... blah blah blah

But the rest? Seriously. Does anyone have the ability to fight anymore? I mean I understand if you roll into us and you see that big ole scary KILL logo by our names, but you gotta stop and remember. HK is the only entity in our hole. No one else. We will happily bring our 20 duders to your hole for some pew any day of the week. We will even trap our own capitals in your hole to achieve our goals of sating BOBs thirst for blood.

I dont even know anymore. Seems like the only people who are brave enough to fight us nowadays are CVA.

Yeah i know. Remember this pathetic effort in your home system? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCDppFf01kg

Listen to how board our fc sounds. It's no wonder we look to null/low sec if this is all people have to offer.

Seriously, once your alliance gets bored doing what everyone else has already done and your member are tired of having unchallenging arranged fights at the sun, you might find find your way in eve but a second whiny forum post won't fix your problems.

Why do they let you post? Some perspective http://killalliance.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13278. 12 to 42. If this isn't hypocrisy... I, too, would be bored by those odds. I'd probably even feel bad. Instead of thanking us for giving you free kills, you're trying too hard to shame us. We've been saying we're bad, silly. Just wish you'd admit you were, too.

Hey, Lead Farmers? Remember that one drunken night we fought Polarized., out-DPSed and out-logied, when they ran when Blue popped their Falcon? What were their last words before they jumped and GTFO? "Sorry, we only blob." Lol.

And it's "bored".

Yeah, sure blame it on the alcohol I'm not trying to shame you, you do that all by yourself.

So how come every thread in this subforum turns into "KILL is so awesome, why doesn't anybody fight us? WE RULE and everyone else is WRONG"
It's like Goons in W-Space now.

I don't know why you guys seem to find it very hard not to turn everything into a pissing contest.

That doesn't even make scene as it's normally one of your members doing the crying.

Irrelevant but okay

Yeah i know. Remember this pathetic effort in your home system? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCDppFf01kg

Listen to how bored our fc sounds. It's no wonder we look to null/low sec if this is all people have to offer.

Seriously, once your alliance gets bored doing what everyone else has already done and your member are tired of having unchallenging arranged fights at the sun, you might find find your way in eve but a second whiny forum post won't fix your problems.

you still owe me a meeting

Yup I refer to what I said in a previous post, we bitched and whined to get these forums.... Good to see there being put to good use.

I look forward to the next TMC article written by a HK guy desperately trying to massage his ego while trying to show everyone how good his members are at pressing f1....

Yup I refer to what I said in a previous post, we bitched and whined to get these forums.... Good to see there being put to good use.

I look forward to the next TMC article written by a HK guy desperately trying to massage his ego while trying to show everyone how good his members are at pressing f1....

oh look, a bitter ex-BITEME guy.... shocking.

take a long tumble down the path of irrelevancy did we?

Alright. Everyone got to flex some muscle, throw some **** at each other and show off their ego. Well done wormhole forums, lets move on to the next thread.

yeah, there's a reason I dont read WH forum threads that are longer than 2 pages. theyre literally all like this :(

So how come every thread in this subforum turns into "KILL is so awesome, why doesn't anybody fight us? WE RULE and everyone else is WRONG"
It's like Goons in W-Space now.

Thanks for the serious answer. I suppose I'm not the only one who misses the days when 15 people in fleet was a lot

And the third such engagement happened to be against NOHO. I can not blame NOHO for not coming to fight us. This one is more of a fleet composition issue. We brought about 30 dudes. They brought about 30 dudes. (Remember Xtrah, we had MORE people in HK then than we do now...) You guys also brought similar numbers. Granted you were shorthanded by about 5 dudes, but you more than made up for that with your 13 logistics ships.

This is not an exaggeration. You had 9 guardians and 4 oneiros in that engagement. Your DPS was so low you werent able to break our 3 guardians when you had 1 of them jammed out with an armor ecm tengu. 13 logis... Why would anyone bring 13 logis to anything other than a 150 man fleet.

Thanks for the serious answer. I suppose I'm not the only one who misses the days when 15 people in fleet was a lot

I admire VoC for not bothering with this pseudo-political bullshit. Instead, like clairvoyants, turned their attention elsewhere where the targets are naive and not full of misconceptions.

Sadly, the angry blobbers are trying to invade us. They really suck at seeding capitals covertly.

Why can't people just let us be to roam null, and gank highsec pubbies with 20 man ISBoxed nado fleets and the like.

Damn you Xtrah I never felt like having this stupid discussion here, but now I have to answer this.

I remember that exact engagement. you(HK) brought the fleet to us, we took the fight unprepared and in the beginning pretty outnumbered and with a rag tag fleet comp.

FC realised we didnGÇÖt have proper logi coverage and shouts BRING LOGI. Next thing we have 13 logistic ships. What can I say we have a lot of people willing to step up and bring logi when needed.
As you pointed out it didnGÇÖt serve us well we didnGÇÖt have a lot of dps and couldnGÇÖt beat your fleet.

However that fight ended by you guys jumping back through the hole which you came, when we had a second to take a breath we looked at the fleet comp we had got together and saw that it was very skewed, we then asked for a swap out of surplus logi while our scout jumped after your fleet on the now close to but not quite critical hole.

We decided that we would give 5 minutes for the surplus logi to swap out and then we would balls deep in the system that connected our present position and your homesystem. fully knowing you would be able to escalate with capitals to make up for your lacking logistics or increase dps thirtyfold. And we wouldnGÇÖt be able to go back.

I told scout to jump through and tell you to hold on. you had already left.

I told your guys as much afterwards so why this gets brought up again and again beats me.

In general the examples given in this thread off people blue balling leaves me a little blank.

People have different time zones.

Sometime there is no one capable\willing to lead available.

your activity vary, but your enemy will ALWAYS assume u have the largest fleet you have shown in the past at any point.

In my humble opinion everyone needs to take a chill pill, and follow these simple rules.

-let the smaller guys get a chance to grow.

-DonGÇÖt hold grudges for how a fight months ago went or didnGÇÖt go

-If someone contact you to get a fight then be upright about it donGÇÖt jerk people about. If someone says sorry we canGÇÖt then take a no as a no (if someone says no 10 times for no reason there might be cause for name calling like carebear of whatever)

-DonGÇÖt bother smacking,it often takes away the receivers willingness to ever give u a fair fight, or a fight at all. IGÇÖve never seen someone say GÇ£hey these guys are smacking us we need to derp into themGÇ¥

Lastly, where are those achievements?

tl;dr - off topic rant

@DrunkBert - We've always been around, just under different names. I'm pretty sure NorCorp was mentioned a few times during Clarion Call 3.

Else, people keep saying they have been visiting us (NoHo) but we never fight, and that we have some sort of a blue list.

As every other corp and alliance we have our stronger time of the day, which in our case is Scandinavian/German (EU) evenings. In the latest month or so, I alone can remember us going balls deep in 3 different entities' home wormholes, where we all faced capitals (REPO, VoC and FD). In addition, we've occasionally met other groups on somewhat equal terms, had gfs with groups like Disavowed and SSC - but the only groups ever to jump into our home to fight us (when they know we can fight back) has been SSC and Polarized. - multiple times each.

HK joining KILL? Only lesses your number of targets. I still don't get the whole deal with being in an alliance if you don't live in the same place.

KILL fielding 100 man fleets as a single wormhole alliance, even living across several wormholes, is pathetic - and I get why you are getting blue balled by other groups. Split across 2 wormholes? Make that 50 actives in both then? There's no guarantee that the 15 you're showing is your whole fleet, and that another 35 won't show up to blob you once the other side commits to a fight.

This NoHo blue list mentioned earlier is unknown to me, though as most others we have friends that we like to do joint ops with. This doesn't mean we won't shoot them the next day.

Else I think Asay summed it up pretty well;


Nice original post/ and all, it's a shame the serious bit wore off after the first 1-2 pages. (not that my post is more on topic than any others, heh)

*Tearpocalypse*

10000/10000 Buckets of Forum Tears collected.

There you go.

KILL fielding 100 man fleets as a single wormhole alliance, even living across several wormholes, is pathetic - and I get why you are getting blue balled by other groups. Split across 2 wormholes? Make that 50 actives in both then? There's no guarantee that the 15 you're showing is your whole fleet, and that another 35 won't show up to blob you once the other side commits to a fight.

Rubicon expansion might just be stealth buff to whs, since ccp anounced that hi-sec pocos can now be owned by players like the other pocos,goons just posted they are going after all hi sec pocos so the only free pocos people will be able to find will be in wormholes.This could certainly increase the wh traffic and maybe even bring 0.0 alliances into whs(best case scenario).

Rubicon expansion might just be stealth buff to whs, since ccp anounced that hi-sec pocos can now be owned by players like the other pocos,goons just posted they are going after all hi sec pocos so the only free pocos people will be able to find will be in wormholes.This could certainly increase the wh traffic and maybe even bring 0.0 alliances into whs(best case scenario).

[MATH]

Yes, and I proclaim myself as King of w-space. But it does not work that way does it? I mean you just have to do simple math, for example there are 1829 Temperate Planets in Empire Space. Let say that half of those are in low sec systems, that means 914 Temperate Planets in High Sec. Even if goons are knocking down a Customs Office each hour in HS that means it will take them 38 days to knock down all Offices on just the Temperate Planets. And this is just straight up bashing, I am not even mentioning the fact that POCOs will have a 24 hour timer, that they would need to spend ISK and war dec various targets (this will also require coordination and administration), that there might be groups who will hit their POCOs in return or the fact that many of their pilots dont have sec status to tarry in high sec.

That is just way too much bother for a very negligible return. And if they go after Desert Planets, lol, there are 4825 of them in Empire Space. Good luck, have fun.

I am not sure i can be classified as a John Q Wormholer but I will share my 2 cents regardless.

A central problem of WH space's issues is the nature of our PVP. armor t3 + guardian has basically forced it to come down to numbers. I am not saying there aren't exceptions, but the only real way to fight a armor t3 blob is a blob of similair, if not larger size. Tactics and fleet compositions went out the window, so now the only thing left is numbers. On paper deciding to downship and roam in a less shiny fleet works, but as soon as you run into someone using a armor t3 blob and you get raped it isnt fun anymore. When you stop caring about KB efficiency, and lossmails, and more about the good fight theyare more likely to happen.

Empathy towards other corps/alliances will go miles as well. The black and white " fight or get evicted" wont work, its not that simple. NOHO has rolled into us several times over the past couple weeks and I don't think weve fought them at all. Not because we dont want to, but because our TZs are offset enough that when they have a good fleet amped up and ready to go, i have a couple stragglers, and vice versa. Now I hope they havent classified us as carebears, but as many fo you have probably experienced it is like pulling teeth to gather a fleet to knowingly charge into a blob 3X your size, and no one is interested in suiciding a fleet so we can say " we fought you".


Q;Are the large entities who are still left dirty blobbers? Sometimes, blobbing is a natural development of eve IMO, corps grow. thats the way it works. Like mentioned previously im never going to tell my members they cant come to this fight, otherwise well be blobbing. In many cases I make an effort to even the odds, i downship my fleets, allow them an advantage, I make an effort to make it a "good fight". When you mindlessly just toss 30 t3s and 5 guys, thats dirty blobbing.

I am skipping most of the other ?s regarding joing or moving upwards as I dont think they apply to me.

Q. Final question is in all honesty, when you roll into a major group that you arent blue to. And you have sufficient numbers on, what are your honest thoughts? Do you turn tail and run, do you hope that they didnt see you, or do you get scouts out there and start doing the numbers game trying to see if you can bring a fight? My reaction when I roll into a major group ( we have no blues out in wh space) depends on who is around, and what time of day it is. If i have guys, and can reasonably expect to get some men together I am happy, and look forward to a fight. When its early morning/very late at night and its only me and a couple other insomniacs we usually just close it, not looking to waste either our, or their time.

Sounds like wormhole space got boring after i started my break. Fear not however, as I will be returning shortly to add excitement into your otherwise dull Eve existences. Love you all long time.

i didn't find my break very interesting. Work kept me from having fun

Where are the tears about Surely? They're much bigger, spread thinner, claim to have won wspace, pride themselves on being the new and more efficient Narwhals, and so on.

It has come to my attention that several groups of people have been offended by my words in this thread. This was never my intention. As Ann apology I have decided t to give away my vast stockpile of c320.

So if you feel you have been offended personally or professionally, then shoot me a mail in game. I will direct you to the system where I will personally fill up your freighter with delicious gas.

Sincerely Qt McWhiskers.